Lord Bison
Superstar
The stone cold truth is that Jason Kidd defeated Lebron in the playoffs. Kyle Lowry didn't. Anyone who can defend Lowry after this debacle needs their meds.
The Coli Where we rank Kyle Lowry over Jason Kidd.. Scust @malta
- Thread starter cKondomsucK6
- Start date
Bigblackted4
Superstar
Thanks for the bump
Bigblackted4
Superstar
Compare the 30th ranked defense to one of the greatest defenses in the modern era.New Jersey Nets at Detroit Pistons Box Score, May 20, 2004 | Basketball-Reference.com
Detroit Pistons at New Jersey Nets Box Score, May 9, 2004 | Basketball-Reference.com
New Jersey Nets at Detroit Pistons Box Score, May 7, 2004 | Basketball-Reference.com
New Jersey Nets at Detroit Pistons Box Score, May 3, 2004 | Basketball-Reference.com
Had a 3-2 lead, and Kidd shot 4-19 over the last 2 games of the series
Mantis Toboggan M.D.
I’m here for the scraps
For a guard who shot 27% from the field in a playoff series
Bigblackted4
Superstar
Two finals as a star and won a chip as the starting point guard. Also what did Kobe and Fish and Payton shoot against that same defense. Do y’all watch basketball or read numbers. Kyrie literally made Lowry leave the bench and go decompress but all type of doo rag capes flapping in this thread.
Bigblackted4
Superstar
34. Jason Kidd
Kidd was a fantastic defender, pairing size (6-foot-4), quickness and acumen to guard multiple positions effectively. He often thought a move ahead, motoring himself into position to take a charge or cut off a driving angle, and his quick hands burglarized unsuspecting dribblers. (He finished second in career steals.) He topped this off with elite backcourt rebounding, peaking with four seasons as a Net in the 99th percentile of relative defensive rebounding rate among perimeter players.
On offense, he was limited — an inconsistent shooter who struggled to self-generate in the half court. He was dangerous in transition and crafty in set pieces, capitalizing on openings with quick drives or by backing smaller defenders into the post. But his vision was his best attribute, and in an abbreviated film study, he tallied nearly 5 good passes per 100 possessions, an excellent rate historically.Scottie Pippen and just behind 4 Due to his limited isolation skills, he wasn’t able to create at the rates that his box estimations suggest, which limited his offensive value. Yet his passing was so good that he retained (or enhanced) that value when surrounded by more skilled offensive teammates.
Kidd’s team offenses weren’t anything to write home about — the best one he quarterbacked in his prime was the ’99 Suns at a +3.6 rORtg (for the full season). They were an attack-oriented roster, with Tom Gugliotta, Cliff Robinson, Rex Chapman and Danny Manning leading a squad of defensive cheesecloths. A coaching change in 2000 (for Scott Skiles) and a lineup adjustment shifted the emphasis towards defense, and the 2000 Suns registered a 5.5 SRS (57-win pace) with Kidd and Gugliotta in the lineup for 47 games, but were only +1.9 on offense relative to the league. Perfectly respectable, but not the stamp of an offensive stud.
The 2001 Suns were below average on offense with another standout defense that was 4.2 points ahead of the league.Penny Hardaway." title="" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin-right: 0px; margin-left: 0px; outline: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(55, 184, 235);">5 In New Jersey, the ’02 Nets turnaround garnered Kidd MVP attention (he finished second), but again, it was a defensive shift that catalyzed the Nets. New Jersey’s offense generated a +1.1 rORtg at full-strength while the defense mirrored Kidd’s Phoenix teams (-3.4 rDRtg). The overall shift was severe — the Nets were a feeble -5.3 SRS team the year before — but some of that might have been addition by subtraction with the departure of shoot-first point guard Stephon Marbury. With Kidd and notable defenders like Jason Collins, New Jersey was dominant defensively for the next few years.6
Kidd was still a borderline elite defender in his later years, playing a high-IQ/spot-up shooting role as a sort of 3-and-D point guard. His plus-minus numbers were excellent; he has a top-100 four-year defensive value in scaled APM (38th among smalls) while posting respectable offensive marks (39th in four-year peak), and his overall five-year peak in that data set is 17th, just ahead of Ray Allen. His game-level plus-minus also paints him as a second-tier star, averaging around +4 points of value in multiple studies. With solid longevity during his prime (10 All-Star seasons by my eye) and a number of excellent role-player years, Kidd lands here.
Kidd was a fantastic defender, pairing size (6-foot-4), quickness and acumen to guard multiple positions effectively. He often thought a move ahead, motoring himself into position to take a charge or cut off a driving angle, and his quick hands burglarized unsuspecting dribblers. (He finished second in career steals.) He topped this off with elite backcourt rebounding, peaking with four seasons as a Net in the 99th percentile of relative defensive rebounding rate among perimeter players.
On offense, he was limited — an inconsistent shooter who struggled to self-generate in the half court. He was dangerous in transition and crafty in set pieces, capitalizing on openings with quick drives or by backing smaller defenders into the post. But his vision was his best attribute, and in an abbreviated film study, he tallied nearly 5 good passes per 100 possessions, an excellent rate historically.Scottie Pippen and just behind 4 Due to his limited isolation skills, he wasn’t able to create at the rates that his box estimations suggest, which limited his offensive value. Yet his passing was so good that he retained (or enhanced) that value when surrounded by more skilled offensive teammates.
Kidd’s team offenses weren’t anything to write home about — the best one he quarterbacked in his prime was the ’99 Suns at a +3.6 rORtg (for the full season). They were an attack-oriented roster, with Tom Gugliotta, Cliff Robinson, Rex Chapman and Danny Manning leading a squad of defensive cheesecloths. A coaching change in 2000 (for Scott Skiles) and a lineup adjustment shifted the emphasis towards defense, and the 2000 Suns registered a 5.5 SRS (57-win pace) with Kidd and Gugliotta in the lineup for 47 games, but were only +1.9 on offense relative to the league. Perfectly respectable, but not the stamp of an offensive stud.
The 2001 Suns were below average on offense with another standout defense that was 4.2 points ahead of the league.Penny Hardaway." title="" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin-right: 0px; margin-left: 0px; outline: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(55, 184, 235);">5 In New Jersey, the ’02 Nets turnaround garnered Kidd MVP attention (he finished second), but again, it was a defensive shift that catalyzed the Nets. New Jersey’s offense generated a +1.1 rORtg at full-strength while the defense mirrored Kidd’s Phoenix teams (-3.4 rDRtg). The overall shift was severe — the Nets were a feeble -5.3 SRS team the year before — but some of that might have been addition by subtraction with the departure of shoot-first point guard Stephon Marbury. With Kidd and notable defenders like Jason Collins, New Jersey was dominant defensively for the next few years.6
Kidd was still a borderline elite defender in his later years, playing a high-IQ/spot-up shooting role as a sort of 3-and-D point guard. His plus-minus numbers were excellent; he has a top-100 four-year defensive value in scaled APM (38th among smalls) while posting respectable offensive marks (39th in four-year peak), and his overall five-year peak in that data set is 17th, just ahead of Ray Allen. His game-level plus-minus also paints him as a second-tier star, averaging around +4 points of value in multiple studies. With solid longevity during his prime (10 All-Star seasons by my eye) and a number of excellent role-player years, Kidd lands here.
Mantis Toboggan M.D.
I’m here for the scraps
They shot considerably better than kidd did :laughingphil:. Kobe was damn near point shaving and still managed to shoot at least 11% better overall. 27% :laughingphil:
malbaker86
Gators
New Jersey Nets at Detroit Pistons Box Score, May 20, 2004 | Basketball-Reference.com
Detroit Pistons at New Jersey Nets Box Score, May 9, 2004 | Basketball-Reference.com
New Jersey Nets at Detroit Pistons Box Score, May 7, 2004 | Basketball-Reference.com
New Jersey Nets at Detroit Pistons Box Score, May 3, 2004 | Basketball-Reference.com
Had a 3-2 lead, and Kidd shot 4-19 over the last 2 games of the series
Yea them Kidd numbers can't be defended no matter how you spin it
Bigblackted4
Superstar
That’s true they pulled out one series from a HOF pg though. When Lowry has been doing this bum shyt his whole career. I guarantee I can find a series of most players that go to the playoffs every year of their career like this.
Gary Payton shot 32% and averaged 4 ppg and started all of the games, D Fish shot 30% and averaged 6. Stop it. Also Kobe shot 38%. That was one of the greatest defenses ever. This Cavs D just got torched by Oladipo.
Dwight Howard
Superstar
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
imagine J.Kidd ONLY scoring 5pts on 7 shots in an elimination game, needed some decompression time i guess...
New Jersey Nets at Detroit Pistons Box Score, May 20, 2004 | Basketball-Reference.com: Game 7 - Kidd, 0-8, 0 points. Yes, that's right, he had ZERO points.
Why would you idiots post J.Kidd's numbers from the 2004 series against Detroit without mentioning that he was playing on a knee that needed surgery?
BASEBALL; Kidd Has Knee Surgery While Martin Receives Calls
Kidd was playing hurt during the playoffs.
How come you haters never point out that in 2003,Jason Kidd's Nets sweeped the #1 seed Pistons
During J.Kidd's run with the Nets,he never lost a series where his team was the favorite....Kyle Lowry just got sweeped in the 2nd rd as the #1 seed.
BASEBALL; Kidd Has Knee Surgery While Martin Receives Calls
Kidd was playing hurt during the playoffs.
How come you haters never point out that in 2003,Jason Kidd's Nets sweeped the #1 seed Pistons
During J.Kidd's run with the Nets,he never lost a series where his team was the favorite....Kyle Lowry just got sweeped in the 2nd rd as the #1 seed.
Ineedmoney504
SOHH ICEY...WE EATIN
My guy kidd was a Soulja. Not to mention the pistons had doubled up and got sheed. And they took the lakers in 5 and it took 7 to beat a beaten down kidd nets