The Official 'Classic Album' Discussion Thread

[360dagod]

I think we need to reach an agreement on a definition for classic.

Here's my proposed definition: an album of the highest quality (excellent lyricism, innovative production, strong cohesion, minimal filler) that has noticeable impact on the genre and the community and whose influence stands the test of time (10 years +)

I would rather be very strict about it, so for Nas, he only has 1 classic: Illmatic.

Do you feel GRODT is a classic??

it has stood the test of time and has hit most of the quotas listed

How do you grade classics is the 00s vs classics in the 90s?

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Do you feel GRODT is a classic??

it has stood the test of time and has hit most of the quotas listed

How do you grade classics is the 00s vs classics in the 90s?

I don't.

I think it has a ton of influence and holds up extremely well, but I think it's lacking in quality. Like if we're being super strict about classics and giving it to the very best albums, GRODT can't be a classic in my eyes.

But you bring up a good point, which I emboldened. People must be careful to not be too bias in their gradings of classics based on decade preferences. I do think 2000s has many classics, albeit not as many as the 90s. I grade them on the same factors though. When I say strong lyricism, I don't mean every album has to have Liquid Swords-esque lyricism, each album has to serve its purpose. I feel the hedonistic, laid back and relaxed lyricism of Doggystyle is perfect for that particular album.

 

[RichForever]

I don't think OT4YM is necessarily filler but just pales in comparison to the rest of the album. It's still a great track.

But on the subject of filler, I think it's key to differentiate between filler in quality and filler in sequencing. If it's quality filler but it fits within the album, I think you can let one or two filler tracks slide. But if a track really has no place in the album, it can be detrimental to the album's cohesion, which could hurt its 'classic-ness' in the long run if that's a factor you choose to incorporate into your definition, which you did.

Ok Illmatic yeah. I agree with you. On the fence about It Was Written tbh.

When you put that way, I see where you're coming from. A song should fit into whatever concept or theme the album has. It shouldn't sound like you're listening to two different albums. The songs on the album should a consistent theme and maybe similar tone also.

I feel the same about It Was Written. I've seen some fans and even other emcees praise the album, but in the same vein, I've heard many fans also say it isn't a classic.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

When you put that way, I see where you're coming from. A song should fit into whatever concept or theme the album has. It shouldn't sound like you're listening to two different albums.

I feel the same about It Was Written. I've seen some fans and even other emcees praise the album, but in the same vein, I've heard many fans also say it isn't a classic.

Well you see quality-wise, IWW could be a classic, but when you consider some tracks, they don't really fit well at all whether by way of theme or sonically. I think getting Dre to produce was a bad idea, it just sounded too West Coast and out of place for me. Things like that deter me from calling it a classic, plus I don't think its quality is right up there CONSISTENTLY. Of course some individual tracks like The Message, I Gave You Power etc. are amazing, but yeah overall...not so sure.

@360dagod just to expand on my point. Das EFX's debut was hugely influential for obvious reasons revolving around their rap style, but the album itself didn't nearly have enough quality to merit classic status. Hope you further understand what I'm getting at. The album itself was fairly insubstantial.

Also, can you list Nas' classics for me if you are comfortable doing so?

 

[RichForever]

Well you see quality-wise, IWW could be a classic, but when you consider some tracks, they don't really fit well at all whether by way of theme or sonically. I think getting Dre to produce was a bad idea, it just sounded too West Coast and out of place for me. Things like that deter me from calling it a classic, plus I don't think its quality is right up there CONSISTENTLY. Of course some individual tracks like The Message, I Gave You Power etc. are amazing, but yeah overall...not so sure.

Yeah I can agree to that. Nas Is Coming didn't really fit at all with the rest of the album sonically. Most of the album featured east coast production.And it's definitely one my least favorite tracks on the entire album. Nas was fine for the most part, but I absolutely hated the instrumental. It completely ruined that streak he had going on in the beginning with the Album Intro up to Take It In Blood. The album doesn't pick itself back up again in my eyes until about Shootouts.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

BUMP

 

[Zero]

If I can listen to an album from top to bottom without or barely skipping anything, and keep doing so for years after the fact, it's a classic to me

I'm not confined to the same old classics every hiphop forum likes to regurgitate so I don't expect many to agree with what I choose

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

If I can listen to an album from top to bottom without or barely skipping anything, and keep doing so for years after the fact, it's a classic to me

let's say theoretically you aren't a fan of 'dusty' music (I hate that term but excuse it). So based on your thing, let's assume you can't listen to Paid in Full or Criminal Minded. Those that mean they aren't classics because you skip the albums or the majority of tracks on said albums? If you ask me, your definition is a little too personal if you know what I mean.

What are Nas' classics?

 

[Zero]

let's say theoretically you aren't a fan of 'dusty' music (I hate that term but excuse it). So based on your thing, let's assume you can't listen to Paid in Full or Criminal Minded. Those that mean they aren't classics because you skip the albums or the majority of tracks on said albums? If you ask me, your definition is a little too personal if you know what I mean.

EHHHHH

It's a wack reason but whoever thinks that is entitled to it. All of this is subjective so I can go too hard on em for thinking that. My way of thinking is personal because again, it's all subjective. We've all got some classic albums in our minds that we'd probably go at if shared

 

[mobbinfms]

Here’s my criteria..

1) Obvious high quality - A classic Hip Hop album should pretty much be an album that has general acclaim from fans and the Hip Hop community as a whole.

2) Impact on the genre - A classic Hip Hop album should have some level of impact on the genre. It should be genre-defining. Basically, if you could go into history and stop an album from being made and it doesn't cause too much change within the genre, it's not a classic.

3) Cohesion - Classics need cohesion. Every song should flow perfectly into the next. Nothing should feel like it shouldn't be there. There shouldn't be a bunch of filler tracks laying around.

4) Does it stand the test of time? - Self explanatory. Is it timeless? In 10 years after the album's release date, will people still be listening to it and talking about it highly? 20 years? And so on.

I think a classic should hit most if not all these marks. I might be forgetting some criteria I think is important though.

I think 1 and 4 is all you need for a classic. Impact can be a negative thing. I think LAD had a huge impact on albums that followed, but it was a negative impact.
Illmatic
It Was Written
Stillmatic
Edit: this is all consensus as well.

 

[mobbinfms]

EHHHHH

It's a wack reason but whoever thinks that is entitled to it. All of this is subjective so I can go too hard on em for thinking that. My way of thinking is personal because again, it's all subjective. We've all got some classic albums in our minds that we'd probably go at if shared

I think the whole point is that it shouldn't be subjective. Like I'm not a huge fan of Run DMC but there's no way that their first and third albums aren't classics.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

EHHHHH

It's a wack reason but whoever thinks that is entitled to it. All of this is subjective so I can go too hard on em for thinking that. My way of thinking is personal because again, it's all subjective. We've all got some classic albums in our minds that we'd probably go at if shared

yeah I get what you're saying but someone using your argument could give ANY album classic status potentially merely off enjoying the whole album. Anyway, it is what it is.

What are Nas' classics to you?

I think 1 and 4 is all you need for a classic. Impact can be a negative thing. I think LAD had a huge impact on albums that followed, but it was a negative impact.
Illmatic
It Was Written
Stillmatic
Edit: this is all consensus as well.

Damn that's an excellent point. That's actually made me want to remove the impact factor off albums altogether, but then again what constitutes as negative can be subjective, especially in a debate between hip hop heads and casual fans.

My question to you is what does standing the test of time mean, especially if you want to remove impact? What about influence? Where does that stand?

I don't think Stillmatic or IWW (to a lesser degree) is consensus at all. But we were debating this earlier. You were surprised that a user only thought 20-30 classics existed, so it depends on how strict you are. I believe we actually should be really strict to reward the creme of the crop albums that classic status. I can't see there being any more than about 60-70 tbh.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

@mobbinfms oh and also, does cohesion not matter to you?

When you consider we're talking about albums, I think if it doesn't play out like an album SHOULD, it should receive criticism. I want a well-fleshed out and free flowing album not just a bunch of tracks. Like the positioning of tracks has to have meaning or at the very least not be out of place to the point of being a deterrent.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Also I'm tallying up Nas' numbers as we speak. I want to get at least 40 votes per artist if possible but not many people are posting in this thread atm. What should be the acceptance % for determining a classic. I'm thinking maybe if 80% of people agree on a classic, I should put it on the list in the OP? What y'all think?

 

[Zero]

I think the whole point is that it shouldn't be subjective. Like I'm not a huge fan of Run DMC but there's no way that their first and third albums aren't classics.

That's hard to ask of people though because everyone isn't going to like the same thing. I get what this thread is going for, there should be some consensus for criteria, but what we apply that criteria to is going to vary.

yeah I get what you're saying but someone using your argument could give ANY album classic status potentially merely off enjoying the whole album. Anyway, it is what it is.

What are Nas' classics to you?

Illmatic, It Was Written, and Stillmatic.

I give IWW a lot of shyt because I get people complaining about the change in Nas from kid on the park bench to mafioso don wearing pink suits trying to get cute, but it is a strong album.