Turkey says US is supporting terrorists (PKK, YPG, ISIS); Russia & Turkey declare ceasefire in Syria

[FAH1223]

I know that, but @FAH1223 lives in a fantasy world where "Assad is the only way to have peace" as if the people will support the Alawite regime without Iran and Russia occupying Syria for an extended period of time

Russia isn't occupying anything bro. They have 2000 men and a naval base. All they've done is provide air support and better intelligence on the ground. Iran has had IRGC officials but none of their soldiers..just all these militias.

If Russia and Iran occupied the country this civil war would be over and done with. Daesh would run so fast to Libya.

I've said maintaining the state is the best way to peace. Assad currently is the head of the snake. I don't believe in the destruction of the state and a Somalia situation where the govt controls one block of Damascus.

But there has to be something other than keep supplying rebels with weapons from the US and Gulf, prolonging the conflict and enhancing the suffering even more.

 

[FAH1223]

SAA in 2011 had desertions and defections so that number is irrelevent bro. Also, the 150 thousand in the SAA ... that's if your including the Shabiha and the militias... which are not even in the frontline fighting anyway. Not only that, they are almost 100% Alawite. They can't use the Syrian militias or Shabiha for offensive or even defensive operations, they're just rag tag groups of people who secure the already controlled cities and towns. Hardly worth considering.

Anyway, the Sunni business class being contrasted with the countryside is also a false dichotomy because you're comparing what could be hundreds of thousands of people in the "business class" section, and what could be millions of people in the "countryside" section. That means there are millions of Sunni's that resent Assad and the regime, this is a major problem.

I agree there's millions against Assad. He bears responsibility for making the conflict sectarian in the first place AND going with brute force in 2011 rather than political positioning and open dialogue.

I'm not absolving that nikka of anything.

I also can't deny he has support and it isn't only his religious sect or the minorities like the Christians. There are plenty of Sunni Arabs who are fighting on his side and bankrolling the government.

I just disagree this conflict is only Sunni vs Shia. It's a lot more than that.

 

[Broke Wave]

Russia isn't occupying anything bro. They have 2000 men and a naval base. All they've done is provide air support and better intelligence on the ground. Iran has had IRGC officials but none of their soldiers..just all these militias.

If Russia and Iran occupied the country this civil war would be over and done with. Daesh would run so fast to Libya.

I've said maintaining the state is the best way to peace. Assad currently is the head of the snake. I don't believe in the destruction of the state and a Somalia situation where the govt controls one block of Damascus.

But there has to be something other than keep supplying rebels with weapons from the US and Gulf, prolonging the conflict and enhancing the suffering even more.

I'm talking about the post war solution. The SAA is only 20 thousand men. They cannot possibly hold the country after the Russians leave. Even Russian military intelligence says the SAA would be nothing without their help and Iranian help. Iran has 10's of thousands of Militia fighters on the ground let alone the 7 thousand official IRGC on the ground. Sure, I was open minded to the Ba'athist institutions sticking around and a peaceful transition, but obviously Iran and Russia are not interested in that. Iran further exacerbates the sectarian issue by involving Hezbollah who are widely unpopular in the Sunni Arab world nowadays for being overtly sectarian. If they were serious about a peaceful transition that was better than the status quo, they'd look to the disaffected regions for a new leader instead of isolating them with another out of touch 1%er who happens to be an Alawite.

I agree there's millions against Assad. He bears responsibility for making the conflict sectarian in the first place AND going with brute force in 2011 rather than political positioning and open dialogue.

I'm not absolving that nikka of anything.

I also can't deny he has support and it isn't only his religious sect or the minorities like the Christians. There are plenty of Sunni Arabs who are fighting on his side and bankrolling the government.


I just disagree this conflict is only Sunni vs Shia. It's a lot more than that.

It's not sunni vs Shia in any sense. The Alawites are not even Shia. The point is everything breaks down into class struggles, but to ignore the basic reality of the masses of Sunni's being oppressed by an Alawite oligarchy is to me just irresponsible. If you think that the fighters were all foreigners, we'll see. Let the situation die down and another "CIA organized protest" is going to happen in Syria. I wonder what the popular uprising will be called now that Trump is in control of the CIA? A European plot?

 

[thekingsmen]

I know the West has been cooking up problems in the ME, this entire problem and almost all the problems in the ME are the fault of the U.S. and Europe.

There is clearly a radicalization in Syria and in Iraq that had occured over the last 5 years. I know you want to say 100% of ISIS and the more conservative religious rebels are a all from foriegn nations but that really is not the case.

As far as Wahhabism... it's not a sect of Islam. Click the link you posted and learn about the word. It is exactly as I said, a derogatory description

1. Did I say that?

2. What is this radicalization?

3. What does isis have to do with Syria? Their worldwide debut happened in Iraq. Most of the radical terrorists and wahabbi supporters in Syria are from areas of when the supposed "crackdowns" began. Which has been documented at the WestPoint Counter Terrorism Center.

 

[thekingsmen]

I agree there's millions against Assad.

You mean the Millions here?

 

[FAH1223]

I'm talking about the post war solution. The SAA is only 20 thousand men. They cannot possibly hold the country after the Russians leave. Even Russian military intelligence says the SAA would be nothing without their help and Iranian help. Iran has 10's of thousands of Militia fighters on the ground let alone the 7 thousand official IRGC on the ground. Sure, I was open minded to the Ba'athist institutions sticking around and a peaceful transition, but obviously Iran and Russia are not interested in that. Iran further exacerbates the sectarian issue by involving Hezbollah who are widely unpopular in the Sunni Arab world nowadays for being overtly sectarian. If they were serious about a peaceful transition that was better than the status quo, they'd look to the disaffected regions for a new leader instead of isolating them with another out of touch 1%er who happens to be an Alawite.

It's not sunni vs Shia in any sense. The Alawites are not even Shia. The point is everything breaks down into class struggles, but to ignore the basic reality of the masses of Sunni's being oppressed by an Alawite oligarchy is to me just irresponsible. If you think that the fighters were all foreigners, we'll see. Let the situation die down and another "CIA organized protest" is going to happen in Syria. I wonder what the popular uprising will be called now that Trump is in control of the CIA? A European plot?

I don't think the fighters are all foreigners. Daesh has the foreign fighters. Groups like Ahrar Al Sham, Jabhat Fatah Al Sham are Syrian. I just don't think a group like JFS or Nourideen Al Zinki should be governing the country. They're deplorables

 

[Broke Wave]

I don't think the fighters are all foreigners. Daesh has the foreign fighters. Groups like Ahrar Al Sham, Jabhat Fatah Al Sham are Syrian. I just don't think a group like JFS or Nourideen Al Zinki should be governing the country. They're deplorables

Of course not It's not as simple as saying "I support all the rebels and think they should run the country". What I'm saying is that the soloution being presented by Russia Iran and the regime is also unsustainable. You really think it's possible to have a functioning Syria while leaving those groups, and those sympathetic to those groups out of the bigger picture? Of course not. The only way they can hold the country even after an agreement has been reached is with some kind of occupation as the army is so battered. Millions of Syrians have already fled, the country is destabilized. If Turkey thinks that a rebel friendly zone in Idlib is going to solve the problem then they're just as foolish.

 

[Broke Wave]

I don't think the fighters are all foreigners. Daesh has the foreign fighters. Groups like Ahrar Al Sham, Jabhat Fatah Al Sham are Syrian. I just don't think a group like JFS or Nourideen Al Zinki should be governing the country. They're deplorables

Of course not It's not as simple as saying "I support all the rebels and think they should run the country". What I'm saying is that the soloution being presented by Russia Iran and the regime is also unsustainable. You really think it's possible to have a functioning Syria while leaving those groups, and those sympathetic to those groups out of the bigger picture? Of course not. The only way they can hold the country even after an agreement has been reached is with some kind of occupation as the army is so battered. Millions of Syrians have already fled, the country is destabilized. If Turkey thinks that a rebel friendly zone in Idlib is going to solve the problem then they're just as foolish.

Edit : I never wanted America to topple the Assad regime, even though I wanted the regime out in the early stages. If they had lost the war early on to the FSA, I'm of the opinion that we would have a much better situation. Obviously that didn't happen. If Assad is interested in peace and not brutal reprisals, he will reach out to the opposition; the original opposition of course. Then they can back channel the more islamist groups. Obviously some of the groups like Jahbat Al-Sham are irredemable, but I have no problem with saying a religious group like Ahrar al-sham and the like are representative of a large portion of Syria's rural population. They need to be represented too and I don't think that they would be against such negotiations. What I'm saying is yes Assad won the civil war, but he needs to reach out to the other side if there is going to be peace in Syria.

 

[FAH1223]

Of course not It's not as simple as saying "I support all the rebels and think they should run the country". What I'm saying is that the soloution being presented by Russia Iran and the regime is also unsustainable. You really think it's possible to have a functioning Syria while leaving those groups, and those sympathetic to those groups out of the bigger picture? Of course not. The only way they can hold the country even after an agreement has been reached is with some kind of occupation as the army is so battered. Millions of Syrians have already fled, the country is destabilized. If Turkey thinks that a rebel friendly zone in Idlib is going to solve the problem then they're just as foolish.

Edit : I never wanted America to topple the Assad regime, even though I wanted the regime out in the early stages. If they had lost the war early on to the FSA, I'm of the opinion that we would have a much better situation. Obviously that didn't happen. If Assad is interested in peace and not brutal reprisals, he will reach out to the opposition; the original opposition of course. Then they can back channel the more islamist groups. Obviously some of the groups like Jahbat Al-Sham are irredemable, but I have no problem with saying a religious group like Ahrar al-sham and the like are representative of a large portion of Syria's rural population. They need to be represented too and I don't think that they would be against such negotiations. What I'm saying is yes Assad won the civil war, but he needs to reach out to the other side if there is going to be peace in Syria.

I agree with your analysis

Been my viewpoint all along

 

[FAH1223]