the cac mamba
Veteran
i was shocked that more didnt come of it
Why haven't liberals and the American media apologized for the "hands up don't shoot" lie???
- Thread starter KingpinOG
- Start date
Dusty Bake Activate
Fukk your corny debates
I blocked that estrogenous loser mrken12 but I can tell by other peoples' responses he's all up in the thread probably crying about how Kingpin needs to be banned and nothing else. 
Anyway, trolling racist a$$hole or not, Kingpin has a valid point on one thing and one thing alone. There's no forensic evidence that can determine for sure whether or not Mike Brown's hands were up when he was shot. There's multiple witness testimony that both confirm and deny it, but the testimony of witness who deny he had his hands were more consistent with the forensic evidence.
I wouldn't say the media necessarily ran with that except for the left-wing pundit class, and some celebrities. I followed the media report closely and it was always reports as "multiple witnesses said he has his hands up when he was shot." Well that was true.
The report is online for all the read. http://www.justice.gov/sites/defaul...doj_report_on_shooting_of_michael_brown_1.pdf
There's DNA evidence that Mike Brown did reach into Wilson's car, punch him, scratch him, and wrestle with him for his gun. Forensic evidence does also show that Brown was moving toward Wilson when he was shot. Multiple witnesses corroborate every aspect of Wilson's story and Wilson's story is consistent with the physical evidence.
Also, even if Brown did have his hands up, he was going to get off anyway, because legally Michael Brown established himself as a physical threat to be handled with deadly force the moment he attacked Wilson in the car and tried to take his gun. He could've shot him in his back while he was running at that point and still gotten off, probably. There was really no way the DOJ could've charged him.
We have to avoid neglecting to look at these incidents on a case-by-case basis. Michael Brown wasn't Trayvon Martin, John Crawford, or Eric Garner and this case wasn't like those cases.
BUT, that being said, that was a catalyst to uncover the revolting corruption and gangsterism going on in Fergusion by their police department and whole municipal structure. It's not hyperbole to say the FPD were an organization of gangsters shaking down the black residents of Ferguson.
Here's the DOJ report on that. http://www.justice.gov/sites/defaul...5/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf
I recommend everyone read it from beginning to end. The news headlines and TV talking points that describe what they were doing doesn't do justice to the full magnitude of the crimes, constitutional violations, and just vile practices being carried out by the police in that city. The report lays it all out and it's disgusting.
The FPD's goal is not public safety, but rather collecting revenue for the city, and they do it squeezing fines out of the black residents for often literally nothing...shyt like "manner of walking" and harassing people then hitting them with "failure to comply." They had a system of "wanteds," which aren't legal warrants but they were enforced like warrants anyway. They blatantly violated peoples' 1st and 4th amendment rights. Some of the individual cases they cite will make your blood boil. They made police officers evaluations dependent upon how much revenue they collected via citations, and called it "productivity." And they did target black people disproportionately.
Seeing what was going on makes it no surprise that the Mike Brown killing would cause that type of outrage and pushback from the residents. Any look at history shows there's often an event that triggers an opening of a floodgate of peoples' pent up frustration. So even if "hands up, don't shoot" wasn't true, it was needed to blow the lid off the taxpayer funded thugs that were making life miserable for the residents of that city. Hopefully this will cast light on other cities that are doing the same thing as Ferguson and lead to real reform. I hope the DOJ is up to the task and it continues to be so under Loretta Lynch and whoever else moving forward.
The perspective of people like KingpinOG, Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. will always be erroneous whether they are just ignorant, or know the deal and are just trolling because there's a failure to put these racially-charged incidents into a larger context and acknowledge systemic racism and its effects.
Anyway, trolling racist a$$hole or not, Kingpin has a valid point on one thing and one thing alone. There's no forensic evidence that can determine for sure whether or not Mike Brown's hands were up when he was shot. There's multiple witness testimony that both confirm and deny it, but the testimony of witness who deny he had his hands were more consistent with the forensic evidence.
I wouldn't say the media necessarily ran with that except for the left-wing pundit class, and some celebrities. I followed the media report closely and it was always reports as "multiple witnesses said he has his hands up when he was shot." Well that was true.
The report is online for all the read. http://www.justice.gov/sites/defaul...doj_report_on_shooting_of_michael_brown_1.pdf
There's DNA evidence that Mike Brown did reach into Wilson's car, punch him, scratch him, and wrestle with him for his gun. Forensic evidence does also show that Brown was moving toward Wilson when he was shot. Multiple witnesses corroborate every aspect of Wilson's story and Wilson's story is consistent with the physical evidence.
Also, even if Brown did have his hands up, he was going to get off anyway, because legally Michael Brown established himself as a physical threat to be handled with deadly force the moment he attacked Wilson in the car and tried to take his gun. He could've shot him in his back while he was running at that point and still gotten off, probably. There was really no way the DOJ could've charged him.
We have to avoid neglecting to look at these incidents on a case-by-case basis. Michael Brown wasn't Trayvon Martin, John Crawford, or Eric Garner and this case wasn't like those cases.
BUT, that being said, that was a catalyst to uncover the revolting corruption and gangsterism going on in Fergusion by their police department and whole municipal structure. It's not hyperbole to say the FPD were an organization of gangsters shaking down the black residents of Ferguson.
Here's the DOJ report on that. http://www.justice.gov/sites/defaul...5/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf
I recommend everyone read it from beginning to end. The news headlines and TV talking points that describe what they were doing doesn't do justice to the full magnitude of the crimes, constitutional violations, and just vile practices being carried out by the police in that city. The report lays it all out and it's disgusting.
The FPD's goal is not public safety, but rather collecting revenue for the city, and they do it squeezing fines out of the black residents for often literally nothing...shyt like "manner of walking" and harassing people then hitting them with "failure to comply." They had a system of "wanteds," which aren't legal warrants but they were enforced like warrants anyway. They blatantly violated peoples' 1st and 4th amendment rights. Some of the individual cases they cite will make your blood boil. They made police officers evaluations dependent upon how much revenue they collected via citations, and called it "productivity." And they did target black people disproportionately.
Seeing what was going on makes it no surprise that the Mike Brown killing would cause that type of outrage and pushback from the residents. Any look at history shows there's often an event that triggers an opening of a floodgate of peoples' pent up frustration. So even if "hands up, don't shoot" wasn't true, it was needed to blow the lid off the taxpayer funded thugs that were making life miserable for the residents of that city. Hopefully this will cast light on other cities that are doing the same thing as Ferguson and lead to real reform. I hope the DOJ is up to the task and it continues to be so under Loretta Lynch and whoever else moving forward.
The perspective of people like KingpinOG, Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. will always be erroneous whether they are just ignorant, or know the deal and are just trolling because there's a failure to put these racially-charged incidents into a larger context and acknowledge systemic racism and its effects.
Dusty Bake Activate
Fukk your corny debates
Except that media narrative you're talking about didn't really exist. It was always reported as "multiple witnesses said he had his hands up when he was shot" and that was true. And the media is not a monolith. Sure, the liberal punditsphere may have jumped the gun, but you could say conversely the conservative punditsphere were pro-Wilson from the start.
I mean....I remember you getting pretty excited over the cliven bundy fiasco during its initial stages before it all fell apart. You were yelping like it was the end of civilization all because law enforcement was peacefully trying to execute a lawful order against thief who felt it was his right to not acknowledge the land rights of the federal govt for over 20 years.
Were you simply a social justice warrior that cared little for scrutinizing the facts? And again we're talking about a peaceful execution of a court order that had you so upset --- how would you guys start responding if white people are killed by cops over jaywalking, walking home, or playing with a toy gun as a 12 year old, or selling a cigarette?
That consideration of the other is difficult stuff there, huh?
Yes, you could say conservatives jumped the gun. And yes, the media is not a monolith. But mainstream news media is still basically = network news + cable news. And the only message on 2 of the big 3, and pretty much all network news was, "This is a self-evident case." It turned out that wasn't so.
Dusty Bake Activate
Fukk your corny debates
That's not true. They never said it was a self-evident case. In terms of how it was reported, they said multiple witnesses said he had his hands up when he was shot, and that was true. Celebrities and primetime liberal talking head infotainers don't = the mainstream media.
What fell apart? Nothing fell apart. Bundy got his cattle back. And then he decided now was his time to say things like "The Negro should be in slavery" or some goof-troop nonsense. All conservative media then uniformly panned him as a racist. I don't think I ever once tried to spin that he's racist and not particularly well educated.
Yeah, I was disturbed that federal agents with military equipment did what they did. Particularly when said agency has a history of making it impossible for people to maintain that lifestyle. And particularly when many federal agencies are retaining SWAT teams with weapons from the Iraq war. Those elements, in fact, disturb me.
It wasn't an entirely peaceful execution of a court order, but I'll let you review what happened on your own time if you want. And the rest of this paragraph is redundant because, again, it's pretty clear why Ferguson, Mo. reacted the way it reacted -- because it's police department was institutionally racist. I said as much in a previous post in this thread.
We're done.
Why haven't you apologized for the lie about Settle restaurants closing because of minimum wage
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/20...e-restaurant-ragnarok-not-actually-happening/
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/20...e-restaurant-ragnarok-not-actually-happening/
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
I'd say the DOJ's assessment of Ferguson's officials and police department don't warrant an apology from the public. It's also safely an indictment of the entire system that is lined up against blacks and the public at large.
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Lookie here c*ntrag:
‘Hands up, don’t shoot’ did not happen in Ferguson
Comments 101
By Michelle Ye Hee Lee March 19 at 3:00 AM
it was “built on a lie.” From time to time, we retroactively check statements as new information becomes available. In this case, the Justice Department has concluded that Wilson acted out of self-defense, and was justified in killing Brown.
Does “Hands up, don’t shoot” capture the facts of Brown’s shooting? What has it come to symbolize now?
The Facts
“Hands up, don’t shoot” links directly to Brown’s death, and it went viral. After the shooting, St. Louis Rams players raised their hands as a symbolic gesture entering the field before a football game. Protesters chanted “Hands up, don’t shoot” during rallies after a grand jury in the state’s case against Wilson decided not to indict Wilson in Brown’s killing. The phrase and gesture were on signs, T-shirts, hashtags, memes and magazine covers. It even has its own Wikipedia page.
In November 2014, a grand jury decided not to indict Wilson after finding that witness reports did not match up with evidence. Other witnesses recanted their original accounts or changed them, calling their veracity into question. In particular, the grand jury could not confirm the “Hands up, don’t shoot” narrative the way it was told after the shooting. By then, however, the phrase had taken on a message of its own.
On Dec. 1, 2014, four members of the Congressional Black Caucus repeated the gesture while delivering speeches on the House Floor titled, “Black in America: What Ferguson Says About Where We Are and Where We Need to Go.” Each of the members held up their hands, and the image spread widely online.
Yet the Department of Justice’s March 4, 2015, investigative report on the shooting of Michael Brown found federal investigators could not confirm witness accounts that Brown signaled surrender before being killed execution-style. The department’s descriptions of about 40 witness testimonies show the original claims that Brown had his hands up were not accurate.
Some witnesses who claimed they saw Brown’s hands raised had testimonies that were inconsistent with physical and forensic evidence. Some admitted to federal investigators they felt pressured to retell the narrative that was being spread after Brown’s shooting. Others recanted their initial testimonies saying they had heard it through media reports or via social media. A few witnesses said Brown had his hands out to his side with his palms up, as if saying “What?” Others said Brown’s hands were not raised, as he was charging at Wilson. A few said Brown’s hands were “balled up.”
Investigators narrowed down the “hands up” claim to a witness – Witness 128 – who had told his family and neighbors his inaccurate version of events as crowds gathered minutes and hours after the shooting, the report says. Another witness could not confirm what she saw because of her poor vision, but she heard a man running around the apartments along the street where Wilson shot Brown. The man was saying something to the effect of, “The police shot my friend and his hands were up.” The witness said that “quickly became the narrative on the street, and to her frustration, people used it both as an excuse to riot and to create a ‘block party’ atmosphere.”
A key passage from the report:
Investigators tracked down several individuals who, via the aforementioned media, claimed to have witnessed Wilson shooting Brown as Brown held his hands up in clear surrender. All of these purported witnesses, upon being interviewed by law enforcement, acknowledged that they did not actually witness the shooting, but rather repeated what others told them in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. … Witness accounts suggesting that Brown was standing still with his hands raised in an unambiguous signal of surrender when Wilson shot Brown are inconsistent with the physical evidence, are otherwise not credible because of internal inconsistencies, or are not credible because of inconsistencies with other credible evidence. In contrast, Wilson’s account of Brown’s actions, if true, would establish that the shootings were not objectively unreasonable under the relevant Constitutional standards governing an officer’s use of deadly force.
In August 2014, after Brown’s death, members of the Congressional Black Caucus delivered speeches about law enforcement’s excessive use of force against black youth. In December 2014, members again spoke about Ferguson killing and those of three others killed by police between August and Dec. 1, 2014: Tamir Rice in Cleveland, Akai Gurley in Brooklyn and Eric Garner in Staten Island. Four members of Congress– New York Democrats Hakeem Jeffries and Yvette Clarke, and Texas Democrats Sheila Jackson Lee and Al Green — raised their hands during their speeches in solidarity with the “Hands up, don’t shoot” movement. The grand jury had questioned this characterization by then.
We requested an interview with those members and other caucus leaders, to see if the DOJ report changed their responses to the Brown shooting. Jeffries responded to our request. He noted that during the December 2014 hearing, none of the members used “Hands up, don’t shoot” as a factual analysis of Brown’s shooting. A review of their comments while raising their hands confirms this:
- Clarke: “Hands up, don’t shoot. … I first want to once again offer my condolence to the family of Michael Brown, whose efforts to secure justice on behalf of their son were undermined by the decision of the grand jury. The killing of Michael Brown, and attacks by the Ferguson Police Department on protesters, demonstrate an assumption that young women and men who are African American are inherently suspicious — a false assumption with deadly consequences.”
- Green: “This has become the new symbol, a new statement — a statement wherein people around the country now are calling to the attention of those who don’t quite understand that this is a movement that will not dissipate. It will not evaporate. It’s a movement that is going to continue because young people — a new generation — has decided that they’re going to engage themselves in the liberation movement.”
- Jeffries: “‘Hands up, don’t shoot,’ is a rallying cry of people all across America who are fed up with police violence — in community, after community, after community, fed up with police violence in Ferguson, in Brooklyn, in Cleveland, in Oakland, in cities and counties and rural communities all across America.”
- Lee: “I also admire the young St. Louis Rams players who raised their hands, to be able to share in the dignity of those young, peaceful protesters. If we don’t affirm non-violence, then who will?”
Justin Hansford, St. Louis University professor who has been organizing legal and community advocacy after Brown’s death, said the DOJ report on Brown’s shooting did not prove that Brown never had his hands up at any point during his confrontation with Wilson. The DOJ could not find evidence to conclusively say that he did, which is an important legal distinction, he said.
Hansford said his Facebook profile photo remains an image of “Hands up” because the message is consistent regardless of the positioning of Brown’s hands: “I don’t feel any way that I was somehow duped or tricked or that my picture was based on a lie. I think it is a very symbolic gesture that really speaks to the experiences of a lot of us, a lot of youth of color.”
The Pinocchio Test
Catchy phrases like “Hands up, don’t shoot,” “Black lives matter,” “an unarmed black person is killed every 28 hours” (which we have fact checked) have resulted from protests over the deaths of Michael Brown, Tamir Rice and Eric Garner. They are emotional messages spread easily, like the “We are 99 percent” mantra of Occupy Wall Street.
We care about facts, how they’re used and the context in which the facts are portrayed. In this case, it is important for us to note that the initial “Hands up, don’t shoot” chant after Brown’s shooting has evolved into a message that is no longer connected solely to the Ferguson event. A series of other fatal shootings by police occurred following Brown’s death, and the “Hands up, don’t shoot” came to symbolize the need to hold law enforcement accountable. And the DOJ report on Ferguson Police Department confirmed the agency systemically profiled black residents.
But we also care about setting the record straight. Investigators have overwhelmingly rejected witness accounts that Brown had his hands up in a surrender before being shot execution-style. The DOJ has concluded Wilson did not know whether Brown was armed, acted out of self-defense and was justified in killing Brown. The majority of witnesses told federal investigators that the initial claims that Brown’s hands were up were not accurate. “Hands up, don’t shoot” did not happen in Brown’s killing, and it is a characterization that deserves Four Pinocchios. Politicians should step carefully if they try to highlight this expression in the future.
Four Pinocchios
So falsely accusing an innocent police officer of being a racist murderer doesn't warrant an apology? Pushing a false narrative to stir up racial tensions that ultimately lead to violent riots and cops being shot doesn't warrant an apology?
You left wingers really do have no shame..........
Apologies aren't obligations. So no.
Excessive force was used and the story is unclear.
You assume anyone who disagrees with you is a left-winger, and thats the problem here.
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
Yes, it was the media and a liberal false narrative not the rampant racism and heavy handed tactics of city officials and the police that citizens experienced and that the DOJ concluded to be actionable.
Digga38
The seperation between what's fake and what's real
Why do you keep saying liberal media?
The Jews run the media in this country have some balls and call it like it is ....
so stop being p*ssy or
You tell us...idk if they did but those construction workers who witnessed the killing said he had his hands up.
Shouldn't Benjamin Crump be the one at fault since he failed at his job?