2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races

[Pressure]

No, I’ve shown she lied about American Indian for years, benefited from it by being touted as a “minority” on Harvards’s faculty, and made up about her parents eloping over American Indian heritage on camera.

You can keep ignoring those facts if you want, but you might be disappointed in the outcome.

I don’t know wtf you keep talking about “identity politics,” title IX and which group has more benefits than who, etc. for but that’s irrelevant.

I’m saying she lied about her race...repeatedly...on record and that will not go over well with a lot of potential voters.

Seems like I’m talking about people who said “Trump and Hillary both suck, I’m staying home” in 2016.

You are just pontificating.

The reason i'm mentioning identity politics because the people making this argument you are attempting to make are conservatives who oppose title IX, AA, and other programs as being unfair to white folks.

Those people aren't democrats.

Even giving you the benefit of the doubt, you're attempting to make a nuanced morality argument with regard to entitlement programs while at the same time admitting the people you are talking about are low information voters who aren't going to making that nuanced argument.

So again, you are talking about people who aren't going to vote dem anyway.

With you being someone who labels themselves a progressive and a leftist I find it harrowing that you are making these types of arguments based around appealing to conservatives and moderates via identity politics.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

You are just pontificating.

The reason i'm mentioning identity politics because the people making this argument you are attempting to make are conservatives who oppose title IX, AA, and other programs as being unfair to white folks.

Those people aren't democrats.

Even giving you the benefit of the doubt, you're attempting to make a nuanced morality argument with regard to entitlement programs while at the same time admitting the people you are talking about are low information voters who aren't going to making that nuanced argument.

So again, you are talkign about people who aren't going to vote dem anyway.

As someone who labels themselves a progressive and a leftist I find it harrowing that you are making these types of arguments based around appealing to conservatives and moderates via identity politics.

Bruh you must be talking to the wind or something. You are putting words in my mouth. Again, I am not talking about the politics of people who feel one way or another about AA or title ix or any of that shyt.

I’m talking about Liz LYING ABOUT HER RACE IN ORDER TO BENEFIT HERSELF. That is frowned upon regardless of one’s opinion of AA. It’s beyond left-right politics. It’s that other thing.

We talking character, let us deal with the facts.

 

[New Jeruzalem Journalist]

Seems like I’m talking about people who said “Trump and Hillary both suck, I’m staying home” in 2016.

I.E. the people who most Hillary supporters and traditional Dem ideologues spent the last 3 years blaming for the 2016 election results, along with 3rd party voters and "Bernie Bros."

Guys, just be fukking fair and honest. Admitting that Warren's whole Native American debacle is a liability doesn't mean you have to renounce her. Ignoring it is just being disingenuous. I don't think it will be an issue that sinks her electibility, but how naive do you have to be to think this topic won't be breached again? It was a major issue and she wasn't even running for the office yet, but somehow now it won't matter?

I can't believe some of you think this won't matter to people who literally voted for Bush over Kerry cuz he'd be more fun to drink beer with.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

I.E. the people who most Hillary supporters and traditional Dem ideologues spent the last 3 years blaming for the 2016 election results, along with 3rd party voters and "Bernie Bros."

Guys, just be fukking fair and honest. Admitting that Warren's whole Native American debacle is a liability doesn't mean you have to renounce her. Ignoring it is just being disingenuous. I don't think it will be an issue that sinks her electibility, but how naive do you have to be to think this topic won't be breached again? It was a major issue and she wasn't even running for the office yet, but somehow now it won't matter?

I can't believe some of you think this won't matter to people who literally voted for Bush over Kerry cuz he'd be more fun to drink beer with.

Yup. This is definitely gonna be a problem...especially since Liz polls worse than Biden or Bernie against Trump. Right now, she's in the margin the error against Trump in the RCP average.

It's going to keep coming up in the general, and I don't think there's a good strategy for addressing it. Like I said, I didn't even know it was as bad as it was until some shyt I read this week. This video @Berniewood Hogan posted is damning.



Wait til all the Republican dark money starts rolling in and the attack ads come out.

 

[Pressure]

Bruh you must be talking to the wind or something. You are putting words in my mouth. Again, I am not talking about the politics of people who feel one way or another about AA or title ix or any of that shyt.

I’m talking about Liz LYING ABOUT HER RACE IN ORDER TO BENEFIT HERSELF. That is frowned upon regardless of one’s opinion of AA. It’s beyond left-right politics. It’s that other thing.

We talking character, let us deal with the facts.

You're talking about people who are looking for reasons not to vote for someone.

Those people will always find a reason not to vote or they already have their mind made up.

They're largely irrelevant because no matter the candidate you will find those types of people.

People who genuinely want good policy aren't making this argument.

This is the equivalent of me saying," Bernie stood by while his wife bankrupted a college. I can only imagine what he will do to America."

No one cares about that who didn't already have an axe to grind with Bernie.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

You're talking about people who are looking for reasons not to vote for someone.

Those people will always find a reason not to vote or they already have their mind made up.

They're largely irrelevant because no matter the candidate you will find those types of people.

People who genuinely want good policy aren't making this argument.

This is the equivalent of me saying," Bernie stood by while his wife bankrupted a college. I can only imagine what he will do to America."

No one cares about that who didn't already have an axe to grind with Bernie.

A lot of assumptions there, chief.

"People who care about x won't care about y because..."

"You're talking about conservatives..."

I'm telling you why I think this is a negative in the general, and you can only say "Those people won't vote anyway (laugh smiley)"

Really bruh? Just like no one cared about Hillary's e-mails?

You know turnout has to increase from 2016 for Warren to win. I'm giving you an example of something I think will be a significant negative for voters who are malleable. Your response is they're either conservatives or they won't vote anyway, like you're a psychic or you have the psychology of every potential swing voter ironed out in your head. Dismiss it at your own peril though.

 

[New Jeruzalem Journalist]

Yup. This is definitely gonna be a problem...especially since Liz polls worse than Biden or Bernie against Trump. Right now, she's in the margin the error against Trump in the RCP average.

It's going to keep coming up in the general, and I don't think there's a good strategy for addressing it. Like I said, I didn't even know it was as bad as it was until some shyt I read this week. This video @Berniewood Hogan posted is damning.



Wait til all the Republican dark money starts rolling in and the attack ads come out.

I wouldn't even worry so much focus on the Republicans attacking her. It's those centrists and upper middle-class intellectuals who are paying grudging lip service to her now but will flip the switch and turn heel faster than Quiksilver once Bernie is no longer in the picture that she better worry about.

Coupled with alt-right misinformation and twitter bots, it definitely will be an issue that gets raised. You don't think those idiots pushing "ADOS" campaigns won't have a field day with something like this to try and further suppress voter turnout?

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

I wouldn't even worry so much focus on the Republicans attacking her. It's those centrists and upper middle-class intellectuals who are paying grudging lip service to her now but will flip the switch and turn heel faster than Quiksilver once Bernie is no longer in the picture that she better worry about.

Coupled with alt-right misinformation and twitter bots, it definitely will be an issue that gets raised. You don't think those idiots pushing "ADOS" campaigns won't have a field day with something like this to try and further suppress voter turnout?

Yeah, Trump voters aren't voting or her anyway, but Trump and Republican machine will be able to force the narrative so that it's in the mainstream political discussion and she will have to answer questions about it.

Imo that makes her vulnerable to the mostly low-information "Trump and Hillary both suck, I'm staying home" crowd of 2016 that allowed Trump's W, and who @Pressure dismisses.

 

[Pressure]

A lot of assumptions there, chief.

"People who care about x won't care about y because..."

"You're talking about conservatives..."

I'm telling you why I think this is a negative in the general, and you can only say "Those people won't vote anyway (laugh smiley)"

Really bruh? Just like no one cared about Hillary's e-mails?

You know turnout has to increase from 2016 for Warren to win. I'm giving you an example of something I think will be a significant negative for voters who are malleable. Your response is they're either conservatives or they won't vote anyway. Not very logical. Dismiss it at your own peril though.

Warren and Hillary have nothing to do with each other besides being white women.

I think you're panicking and resorting to some shytty attack vectors.

 

[Pressure]

I wouldn't even worry so much focus on the Republicans attacking her. It's those centrists and upper middle-class intellectuals who are paying grudging lip service to her now but will flip the switch and turn heel faster than Quiksilver once Bernie is no longer in the picture that she better worry about.

Or they could just support the front runner in Biden.

Yeah, Trump voters aren't voting or her anyway, but Trump and Republican machine will be able to force the narrative so that it's in the mainstream political discussion and she will have to answer questions about it.

Imo that makes her vulnerable to the mostly low-information "Trump and Hillary both suck, I'm staying home" crowd of 2016 that allowed Trump's W, and who @Pressure bizarrely dismisses.

Last election it was voters are staying home because dems weren't progressive enough....

Are you suggesting Warren isn't progressive enough?

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Warren and Hillary have nothing to do with each other besides being white women.

I think you're panicking and resorting to some shytty attack vectors.

Warren and Hillary have similar bases of support and similar negatives, and you’re scoffing at and dismissing Warren’s negatives.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Or they could just support the front runner in Biden.

Last election it was voters are staying home because dems weren't progressive enough....

Are you suggesting Warren isn't progressive enough?

You make a lot of blanket statements regarding the precise reasons people you never met didn’t vote.

Saying Hillary lost simply because “she wasn’t progressive enough” is a very reductive assessment that misses the mark. The not progressive enough critique was most likely to come from people like me who voted for Bernie in the primary and her in the general.

She was a shytty candidate for a lot of reasons, but people stayed home cause they felt she was fake, corrupt, establishment, out of touch, and her presidency wouldn’t do anything to help their lives.

Liz doesn’t have all those negatives, but she does have to win back a lot of blue collar swing voters Hillary lost if she wants to win and saying “they’re not gonna vote anyway” or “they’re gonna vote Republican” is silly.

 

[King Kreole]

Yeah, Trump voters aren't voting or her anyway, but Trump and Republican machine will be able to force the narrative so that it's in the mainstream political discussion and she will have to answer questions about it.

Imo that makes her vulnerable to the mostly low-information "Trump and Hillary both suck, I'm staying home" crowd of 2016 that allowed Trump's W, and who @Pressure dismisses.

Trump and the Republican machine will force the narrative against any Dem candidate. No one thinks they're going to shelve the Pocahantas crap in the general. Where we disagree is how strong that line of attack will be. I'm arguing that she'll be able to eat that and move on because it's an old attack by now, and she's a much stronger candidate than that controversy. Even Hillary could have eaten the emails attack (which was a much more potent line of attack than Warren's native stuff) if she ran a campaign based off making actual, transformative, systemic changes instead of just extending the status quo. That left her nothing to pivot to when Donald and the RNC started up their attacks, which in turn led to depressed turnout.

All 3 frontrunners have big spots where they can be attacked. Biden is a corrupt insider with a shady son who has ties to Ukraine. Liz faked being a Native American to take advantage of affirmative action. Bernie is a pinko communist. Biden is the only one who is at real risk because his whole campaign is based around ignoring the anger and disaffection in the country. Liz and Bernie both speak to that anger and disaffection, and are providing real, meaningful solutions to it, and as such can overcome the attacks they will face. Dems are always so scared of Republicans. Gotta run bold.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Trump and the Republican machine will force the narrative against any Dem candidate. No one thinks they're going to shelve the Pocahantas crap in the general. Where we disagree is how strong that line of attack will be. I'm arguing that she'll be able to eat that and move on because it's an old attack by now, and she's a much stronger candidate than that controversy. Even Hillary could have eaten the emails attack (which was a much more potent line of attack than Warren's native stuff) if she ran a campaign based off making actual, transformative, systemic changes instead of just extending the status quo. That left her nothing to pivot to when Donald and the RNC started up their attacks, which in turn led to depressed turnout.

All 3 frontrunners have big spots where they can be attacked. Biden is a corrupt insider with a shady son who has ties to Ukraine. Liz faked being a Native American to take advantage of affirmative action. Bernie is a pinko communist. Biden is the only one who is at real risk because his whole campaign is based around ignoring the anger and disaffection in the country. Liz and Bernie both speak to that anger and disaffection, and are providing real, meaningful solutions to it, and as such can overcome the attacks they will face.

It may be an old attack, but the public hasn’t seen the full extent of it yet. The details of it are worse than I thought and the public doesn’t really know her yet.

I agree that hopefully any fallout from it can be offset by her bold policy vision. I think it’s foolish to dismiss though, especially considering as of now she isn’t polling well against Trump and is in the margin of error and will thus need to attract new voters, particularly in the rust belt to win.

 

[88m3]

The fact that you support her Israel stance and foreign policy says enough. I don't even have to make my case. I'll just let you talk.

You're being really unfair to Warren...

Political realities suck sometimes.

In a more fair world the senate would've provided an Iron Dome for Islamic Jihad and Hamas.


Bernie helped perpetuate Israel by being a settler there but that's okay?


Kinda odd idk...