2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races

[duncanthetall]

Yet you are the one posting shyt from there all the time like it means something. lol

Dude is unraveling

 

[FAH1223]

 

[storyteller]

Warren lost steam responding to people asking her how she will pay for M4A. That plan was very convoluted regardless if it is well thought out or not. Bernie has released ways to kinda pay for it but he doesn't look weak because he doesn't instantly respond to each shot fired. Warren was defensive, Sanders is offensive. Good thing for Warren is that DMR endorsement has kept her afloat and she seems to be shaking back a bit. We'll find out tonight.

I think what she ran into was the problem that her funding mechanism and overall plan is more jargon than actual well thought out. For someone who targeted the wonks with her "I have a plan for that" movement, Warren may have stepped in it by trying to spin an unnecessary funding mechanism.

The Sanders-Warren dispute about how to pay for Medicare-for-all, explained

The odds of these bills passing Congress are extremely low. And even if it did, Congress would write the bill and there’s no reason to think either Sanders or Warren have fundamental, principles-driven objections to either way of doing this.

But the plans candidates release are illustrative of how they think about things, and this particular case is interesting because it runs somewhat contrary to the stereotype.

Warren has much more of a reputation as the uber-wonk with plans for everything, while Sanders is seen more as a moralist and a populist who cares less about the technical merits of proposals than whether they illustrate underlying points.

In this particular case, however, that dynamic is reversed. It’s Warren whose plan optimizes for easily illustrating the point that almost everyone’s costs will go down, even at the cost of embracing a vision that’s not going to be technically sustainable for very long. She’s then vague about the timing of the transition off her plan, and is going to transition to something that’s probably a worse deal for many people than a more technocratic alternative would be.


Sanders, by contrast, is proposing a big new broad tax, even though big new broad taxes tend to be unpopular. This is how foreign single-payer systems are typically designed, and it’s almost certainly what a team of policy wonks would recommend if they were setting all political considerations aside.

I bolded the part about low odds of passing too because I think it's crazy how often Warren supporters ignore that her own plan is a pipe dream too. We're all operating under the assumption that unless the Democrats flip Congress we're fighting heavy duty obstruction...Bernie's the only one it ever gets treated like an immovable obstacle for though.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Son. How the fukk do people defend caucuses?????

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

sanders hates identity politics

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

Then why do you spend so much of your life posting tweets?

funny that some of the people who dapped this post just as many tweets

 

[King Kreole]

If she lost people supporting her based on that, it had nothing to do with Bernie stans. She lost her supporters, she can't lose Bernie stans since they are you know with Bernie. lol

I'm not sure. I think she lost support on her left flank and right flank because creating an actual solution isn't what the populace wants. The Bernie stans played a role in mainstreaming the lie that Warren wasn't actually for M4A after she released her funding and transition plans, and amplified the false media narrative that she's a fraud. I personally have friends who cited this episode as the moment they went from supporting or considering Liz to the moment they went full Bernie, and they cite the lies that were told about Liz's plan by the biggest pro-Bernie media figures.

If the people on the left had practiced some solidarity, like Jayapal was calling for, I think Warren could have been able to weather the storm in much better shape. But again, she made the mistake of thinking the left was in a more emotionally mature state than it is and is actually ready to govern, whereas I think it's still in a very immature state dictated by personality politics. She basically took a leap in the name of M4A and needed one side to catch her, but both let her fall. It's good for Bernie though.

I just find it funny when Joe Rogan is being defended more vociferously by Bernie stans as an ally than Elizabeth Warren is. I don't know what type of coalition is being built here.

 

[King Kreole]

I bolded the part about low odds of passing too because I think it's crazy how often Warren supporters ignore that her own plan is a pipe dream too. We're all operating under the assumption that unless the Democrats flip Congress we're fighting heavy duty obstruction...Bernie's the only one it ever gets treated like an immovable obstacle for though.

I truly don't understand the idea that a public option that keeps private insurance in place but gives it more competition with a government option will be just as difficult to pass as full-scale M4A which all-out eradicates private insurance. All the key senate votes have already said they're open to voting for the former but will go so far as to even vote for Trump to avoid the latter. Regardless of which Democrats wins the election, there is a mandate for wide-scale health care expansion. All the major candidates are running on mass health care reform.

 

[storyteller]

I truly don't understand the idea that a public option that keeps private insurance in place but gives it more competition with a government option will be just as difficult to pass as full-scale M4A which all-out eradicates private insurance. All the key senate votes have already said they're open to voting for the former but will go so far as to even vote for Trump to avoid the latter. Regardless of which Democrats wins the election, there is a mandate for wide-scale health care expansion. All the major candidates are running on mass health care reform.

Kinda giving away the bag there...this is why people who wanted M4A felt she flip flopped. Because you've settled for a Public Option as the only realistic option. Which is fine. But don't expect to have your cake and eat it too.

 

[afterlife2009]

 

[Pressure]

The claim was made that "many VOTERS" wanted to reduce access to healthcare.


Nothing you wrote confirms that statement.

It's confirmed by who they vote for.

 

[DonKnock]

It's confirmed by who they vote for.

I don't agree with this for multiple reasons.

• Assumes these are all single issue voters
• Assumes all these voters are in a position to have a binary increase/decrease coverage choice
• Assumes all seats are up for reelection
• Assumes all voters aren't electorally stranded by gerrymandering or voter suppression

If the polling data was anywhere close then you would have a case here, but 95% of dems a 77% of independents wanting to increase access is too overwhelming considering I already granted that Republicans and Dems taking healthcare lobbyist money have an outsized impact on the process of getting this through.

 

[FAH1223]

Why? Who do you think his constituency is?
I know Mike Bloomberg socially. Every summer I go to a dinner on Martha’s Vineyard with Mike Bloomberg. I’ve argued with him about policies that I didn’t like. He is enormously intelligent and capable. When he was mayor, I watched him. He could wear it lightly. It’s not like Jimmy Carter with the weight of the world on him. I think that he’s tough, and I think he could take on the bully Donald Trump. Very few people can stand up to a bully. Mike’s got some bully in him. I think he’s good.

“Stop and frisk” isn’t too much of a problem for him?

He faces two problems that he has to overcome. He has already apologized for “stop and frisk,” but he has to put it behind him, and also the Central Park Five. What the city and the legal structure did to those five boys was shameful. The mayor has to put that behind him. If he’s successful doing that, I think black people want him, because he is smart, sensitive, strong. I think he cares about health care. He understands the economic system. This is not an endorsement. But I would support him if he got the nomination.

 

[SunZoo]

sanders hates identity politics

No, but he is hip to how identity politics is being used in bad faith. Weaponizing the differences and struggles between people for political gain is the only way democrats can keep up. They pander and appeal to blacks and other minorities to offset the 'southern strategy' of republicans banking on a base of bigots without ever really making any substantial change to justify the support. The person who helped coin the term comes out and says Bernie's platform is most aligned to the original purpose of 'identity politics', building coalitions among the oppressed, not as a shield for the oppressors
.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

No, but he is hip to how identity politics is being used in bad faith. Weaponizing the differences and struggles between people for political gain is the only way democrats can keep up. They pander and appeal to blacks and other minorities to offset the 'southern strategy' of republicans banking on a base of bigots without ever really making any substantial change to justify the support. The person who helped coin the term comes out and says Bernie's platform is most aligned to the original purpose of 'identity politics', building coalitions among the oppressed, not as a shield for the oppressors
.

sanders has done nothing to appeal to black voters.

his numbers reflect that.