.

[ORDER_66]

Cypress Hill, Kid Frost, Big Pun>>>>>>YMCMB

 

[skeetsinternal]

It's important to note that the South Bronx was actually majority Puerto Rican, NOT majority Black during the era when hip-hop was created. That doesn't mean Puerto Ricans created hip-hop, but their contributions can't be ignored.

Most of the b-boys in the original Zulu Nation were Rican, not Black. The United Graffiti Artists, the first major graffiti organization in the country who eventually merged into the nation were formed by Hugo Martinez, a Rican. DJ Charlie Chase from the Cold Crush Brothers was Rican. DJ Disco Wiz (who formed Mighty Force Crew with Grandmaster Caz in the 70s) was Rican and Cuban, as was Prince Whipper Whip, another member of that crew. Vico C, the Mean Machine, Devastating Tito, DJ Master O.C., Prince Markie Dee Morales, The Real Roxanne... and this was all before Run DMC even existed, ie, before 1981. There is no doubt that Puerto Ricans were part of even the earliest days of the culture.

I am a student of hip hop and I understand there were different cultures that influenced hip hop during its conception and continues to do so to this day. The thread leads one to believe that the very same culture that may have been at the foundation of hiphop is the same culture that in some cases, has historically denied their black roots, perpetuates racism towards blacks in their native countries and use the derogatory words like they share the same plight as blacks in this country. Yes these ricans, latinos etc contributed to hiphop but they didn't create it. Hiphop is universal and due to the demographic makeup of the Bronx it was inherently bound to happen and that different cultures would gravitate to the sound of hiphop. What people fail to remember about black folks is that we are an forgiving race of people which have allowed these cultures to mimic and given out free passes to these cultures to roam free. No way is a Mexican suppose to be using the N-word like its slang or cool to use. Latinos from islands like Puerto Rico, DR, etc are a mutt race of people, when told they have African blood its not something they take pride in but will use that fact they have black blood in them to use the n-word around other nikkas. These latinos are the same ones that are often missing in action on the local level when it comes to ameliorating the plight of black people but will highlight the fact that they not black to the white man for their benefit. My 2 cents.

 

[Axum Ezana]

I am a student of hip hop and I understand there were different cultures that influenced hip hop during its conception and continues to do so to this day. The thread leads one to believe that the very same culture that may have been at the foundation of hiphop is the same culture that in some cases, has historically denied their black roots, perpetuates racism towards blacks in their native countries and use the derogatory words like they share the same plight as blacks in this country. Yes these ricans, latinos etc contributed to hiphop but they didn't create it. Hiphop is universal and due to the demographic makeup of the Bronx it was inherently bound to happen that cultures would gravitate to the sound of hiphop. What people fail to remember about black folks is that we are an forgiving race of people which have allowed these cultures to mimic and given out free passes for these cultures. No way is a Mexican suppose to be using the N-word like its slang or cool to use. Latinos from islands like Puerto Rico, DR, etc are a mutt race of people, when told they have African blood its not something they take pride in but will use that fact they have black blood in them to use the n-word around other nikkas. These latinos are the same ones that are often missing in action on the local level when it comes to ameliorating the plight of black people but will highlight the fact that they not black to the white man for their benefit. My 2 cents.

exactly. that's why the world will never be a "true melt/welding pot".

only a "salad bowl"

 

[Taadow]

I only read page 1. That was all I could take.

- I knew what was up when OP said "latinos", then started talking about Mexicans.

- As was mentioned, Latinos were livin' in the same place black folk were and at the same jams.

- OP said "infiltrate" like it was a covert operation. On the music side of it, Latinos
(and Mexicans, and hipster white folk, and Country White Folk) aren't "infiltrating" hip-hop,
their making their own rap (word to Pimp C) and getting support from their folks. The ain't
trippin' off the approval of the Council of Real Hip-Hop (lol) because there isn't one, because
we can't even decide amongst ourselves what real hip-hop is.

- Now if you wanna discuss the sociological schism here, that's another thread...

 

[IllmaticDelta]

It's important to note that the South Bronx was actually majority Puerto Rican, NOT majority Black during the era when hip-hop was created. That doesn't mean Puerto Ricans created hip-hop, but their contributions can't be ignored.

Most of the b-boys in the original Zulu Nation were Rican, not Black. The United Graffiti Artists, the first major graffiti organization in the country who eventually merged into the nation were formed by Hugo Martinez, a Rican. DJ Charlie Chase from the Cold Crush Brothers was Rican. DJ Disco Wiz (who formed Mighty Force Crew with Grandmaster Caz in the 70s) was Rican and Cuban, as was Prince Whipper Whip, another member of that crew. Vico C, the Mean Machine, Devastating Tito, DJ Master O.C., Prince Markie Dee Morales, The Real Roxanne... and this was all before Run DMC even existed, ie, before 1981. There is no doubt that Puerto Ricans were part of even the earliest days of the culture.

I got love for Puerto Ricans but most of what you posted isn't fact. Puerto Ricans were not part of HipHop from the START but they were the first non-black people around. In the early years of HipHop/Park Jams they were basically spectators. They weren't involved directly but they watched from afar. Bboying was black creation early on with no Ricans around

@ 8:26 he talks about when the Ricans started bboying



Ricans started getting involved more after 1975. Most of them never tried to get involved musically they felt they had to honor their own culture by their elders. Charlie Chase and Disco Wiz both attested to this. Disco Wiz interview

What was it like growing up in the Bronx and seeing the birth of a new genre?

It was a one-of-a-kind experience when hip-hop got started. Between the ages of eleven and fifteen, the streets of the Bronx raised me. I was running in packs and putting in work—robberies, stickups, the whole nine. That’s who I was before I got into the music. But once I met Caz, we instantly connected. And not too long after that, hip-hop started exploding all around us. Kool Herc’s name was ringing bells. Bambaataa and Flash were doing their thing on the other side of town. No one was really making noise on our side, so it was just a natural progression that we became students of the culture. We had already been dressing the aesthetic, we were both graffiti writers, and so becoming a part of the music was just the next natural step for us.

What were the biggest hardships of the ’70s?

Back then, New York was fukking bankrupt. There were no programs, no resources. After my father died, we became a family on welfare. My mother was working two jobs at that point just to support us. I went to school, but I think I got a better education in the streets. We were definitely aware of our social environment at a young age. When my brother and I started going to Catholic school, we were less than a handful of the Latinos there. Even before my mother went on welfare, they were already calling us welfare recipients. It was a tough time for a lot of folks. Gangs were running rampant in the Bronx, and I soon became a part of that. We were all in the same boat—broken homes and a lack of anything else to be a part of.

What kind of impact did the music have on you?

Once I got involved in hip-hop, I spent less time in the street, and I started to gravitate away from those friends. But my mind-set was still pretty much the same. I still had a really quick temper. I wasn’t that overly talkative dude you’d want to kick it with, but the music taught me a lot about being a pioneer. I was the first Latino DJ, the first Hispanic dude behind the turntables, so there were a lot of biases about that from the Latino community. Hip-hop was perceived as a Black movement when it first got started, so I was perceived as a Spanish guy trying to be Black, trying to be non-Spanish.


Disco Wiz with the Coldcrush Brothers, 1982. Photo courtesy of Disco Wiz and powerHouse Books.



What were most Latinos listening to then?

They were listening to disco, salsa, and Top 40. Whatever was available on WABC, the one station we had in New York. But we weren’t accepted at fukking disco joints. It’s not like I could have rolled up to Studio 54. So it was tough at first. But once hip-hop became more popular, and my crew started to do community events, hip-hop became distinctively ours. From there, we just gravitated to it even more and began to create our own mark, our own niche. I was still a very aggressive dude, so I started to channel that aggression out through the music. Caz used to get mad at me, ’cause I would break the knobs on the mixer. Sometimes, I’d even slam shyt and break a needle. I was known for that. I got behind the turntables like I wanted to beat a motherfukker up. That’s why I got heavy into breakbeats.

http://www.waxpoetics.com/features/...op-pioneer-dj-disco-wiz-spins-hard-knock-yarn


Dj Charlie Chase

DJ Charlie Chase, born Carlos Mandes, was the first Latino DJ who played a key role in establishing Latinos as a contributing force in the Bronx, New York hip-hop culture. Hitting the Hip-Hop scene in 1975. Charlie Chase was a founding member of the Cold Crush Brothers along with Dj Tony Tone. The groups other members are Grandmaster Caz, JDL, EZ AD and Almighty Kay Gee. Charlie Chase and Tony were also responsible in forming the first ever MC convention in Hip Hop history in 1980.

Chase was born in Manhattan on Jan, 16 in 1959 to Puerto Rican-born parents. Chase's family moved often and lived in many different New York City neighbourhoods which were primarily Puerto Rican or Black. Chase began playing music as a bassist in bands at the age of 14 representing a variety of musical styles. Chase produced his first album at the age of 16. In the 1970s, Chase DJ'd for WBLS alongside the legendary Funkmaster Flex. Chase received criticism from both Blacks and Hispanics for playing hip-hop music because at the time it was believed to be a genre reserved for Blacks. However, Charlie Chase's talent outweighed racial differences.

talking about from the latino and black side

@ 3:00 mins



@ 2:54....and 5:04 on his mother on him playing "black" music and not his own culture music (salsa) @ 5:18 Bboy,Trace "Salsa is beautiful we love it but you can't dance/bboy to Salsa, we needed that Funk"




.
.

Ricans biggest contribution was later on in Bboying, which is more after 1975

@ :19 sec to 1:06...

 

[Sugar]

Whats with these hate threads lately?

Some of these posters have their own "agenda"

And they all know who they are. @ anyone who takes these basement-dwelling nerds seriously

 

[IllmaticDelta]

For the record, Puerto Ricans in NYC have been up on "black" music since the 30's/40's so it made sense they would gravitate to HipHop

@ 7:05



Even the music called "Latin Boogaloo", the precursor to NYC Salsa owed a debt to black music

Latin Boogaloo

Boogaloo or bugalú (also, shing-a-ling, Latin boogaloo, Latin R&B) is a genre of Latin music and dance that was popular in the United States in the 1960s. Boogaloo originated in New York City among teenage Cubans, Puerto Ricans and other groups. The style was a fusion of popular African American R&B and soul with mambo and son montuno. It included the use of English lyrics as well as Spanish. Boogaloo entered the mainstream through the American Bandstand television program

Welcome to Latin boogaloo! What’s that? Boogaloo is the musical style that was all the rage in New York’s Latin music scene in the mid-1960s, just before it became known as salsa. Listen to the hand clapping, the goofy English, Spanish and Spanglish lyrics, the wild party atmosphere, the switching and mixing between Cuban mambo and hot soul sounds, and what you’ve got is boogaloo. And of all the new bands that performed in that short-lived boogaloo era—like those of Joe Cuba, Richie Ray, Johnny Colón, Hector Rivera and Joe Bataan—it’s the Pete Rodriguez y Su Conjunto that is most fully identified with Latin boogaloo.
This bunch of young guys from the streets of the South Bronx rose to overnight stardom and then fell into general oblivion during the boogaloo years—1966 and 1967. What’s more, their signature song and biggest hit, I Like It Like That (A Mi Me Gusta Así is the quintessential boogaloo tune of all time, the heart and soul of that exciting, and somehow prophetic, crossover outburst. Boogaloo has been called the "first Nuyorican music." That’s because New York born-and-bred Ricans were getting together and jamming their bi-cultural souls out with montunos and jaleos coming from one end and high-charged funk and R&B from the other—while having a blast the whole time!

Boogalu (a.k.a. Boogaloo), a fusion of Rhythm and Blues and Cuban son montuno, was popular in the United States from 1966-69. Boogalu was the first contemporary Latin music form that captured my attention because of its funky sounds, engaging choral chants by the audience, English lyrics, references to symbols of African American culture (“cornbread, hog maws and chitlins”), and background sounds of raucous party goers. Boogalu was a highly successful crossover musical style, capturing the attention of audiences who were previously not familiar with Latin music.

Boogalu resonated particularly with African American audiences. Performers such as Jimmy Sabater and Joe Cuba clearly state that Boogalu was inspired by the interaction between African American dancers and Latin musicians in New York at nightclubs such as Palm Gardens Ballroom. They recount stories of how the structure and tone of Boogalu songs such as “Bang, Bang” were developed in an effort to appeal to African American dancers who were not responding to their traditional mambos and cha cha chas. Many of the Boogalu musicians report that they were also deeply influenced by the R+B, jazz and Doo Wap bands of that era. Music historian Juan Flores, in his seminal work on Boogalu entitled “Cha Cha with a Backbeat, suggests that the song title and refrain “ I Like It Like That” may have some roots in a 1961 R+B tune with the same name composed by Chris Kenner, from New Orleans.

By 1966 “Bang, Bang”, “ Pete’s Boogalu” and “I Like it Like That” had captured the American public. Major boogalu bandleaders included Joe Cuba, Ricardo Ray, Pete Rodriguez and Johnny Colon. During its heyday nearly every major Latin band recorded boogalus including Ray Barretto, El Gran Combo and even Eddie Palmieri, one of the styles most visible opponents. According to JJ Rassler in a Descarga.com article, Boogalu occupied a unique position in Latin music history since it emerged as the popularity of Charanga music was waning and before the emergence of Salsa.

According to music historian Juan Flores, Boogalu was not an accidental development in Latin music but was the embodiment of the social and cultural interplay found on the streets of Black and Spanish Harlem.

“As neighbors and coworkers, African Americans and Puerto Ricans in New York had been partying together for many years. For decades they had been frequenting the same clubs, with Black and Latin bands often sharing the billing … African American audiences generally appreciated and enjoyed Latin music styles, yet those who fully understood the intricacies of Afro-Cuban rhythms and came to master the challenging dance movements remained the exception rather than the rule… Popular Latin bands found themselves creating a musical common ground by introducing the trappings of Black American culture into their performances and thus getting the Black audiences involved and onto the dance floor. “Bang Bang” by the Joe Cuba sextet and Latin boogaloo music in general was intended to constitute this meeting place between Puerto Ricans and Blacks and by extension, between Latin music and the music culture of the United States.” (Flores 2000)

There was no structured dance style or patterns associated with Boogalu. It tended to be a freestyle dance without a closed embrace where partners often faced each other and created spontaneous innovative steps in response to the music much like other popular dances of the 60's.

As with most issues in Latin music, there is a great deal of debate about who was the first person to coin the term “boogalu or to create the musical style . Richie Ray was certainly among the first innovators with his 1967 album Jala Jala Y Boogalu. The song “Pete’s Boogalu” written by trumpeter Tony Pabon was the first Latin boogalu song to be played on the radio.

What happened to the golden age of Boogalu? Was it just a passing musical phase, edged out by Salsa and Rock and Roll? Not everyone had been ecstatic about the popularity of Boogalu. In an interview by Max Salazar, Fernando “King Nando” Rivera revealed his view of the rise and eventual fall of Boogalu.

“We felt the jealousy of the older band members. The boogalu didn’t die out. It was killed off by envious old bandleaders, the only booking agent at the time, a few dance promoters and a popular Latin music disc jockey. We were the hottest bands and we drew the crowds. But we were never given top billing or top dollar. The boogalu bandleaders were forced to accept package deals’ which had us hopping all over town…one hour here, one hour there…for small change. When word got out that we were going to unite and not accept the package deals any longer, our records were no longer played on the radio. The boogalu era was over and so were the careers of most of the boogalu bandleaders." (Salazar 1997)

Others such as Willie Torres have another explanation for the disappearance of Boogalu.

“…the main responsibility for the eclipse of boogaloo in the name of salsa, aside from the musicians themselves, was Fania Records. Thought the category of salsa did not come into currency until 1972, it was Fania that shook New York Latin music loose of the boogaloo and went on to define the sound of the 1970s to world audiences." (Flores 2000)

Though the heyday of boogalu was brief, the music form continues to endure. In the late 1990’s Nito Nieve’s breathed new life into the form with his rendition of “I Like it Like that”, adding hip hop, rap and house music stylings to this old standard. Boogalu may have reached new heights (or depths?) of cross-over appeal when the Nieve’s version of this song became the background music for Burger King commercials in the late 1990’s. Contemporary Salsa bands continue to revive old boogalus and create new pulsating, energetic selections such as those found on CD such as Salsa Con Swing by Sonora Carruseles and Grupo Gale's "Boogalu con Gale" on their tenth anniversary CD.

If you want to hear boogalu and Latin Funk selections, log into http://www.p*ssycatclub.org.uk/SoundClips/Latin.htm or http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/350/the_mambo_boys.html and listen to some vintage soundclips. For interviews with Boogalu artists (Pete Rodriguez, Johnny Colon, Joe Cuba) about the impact and untimely demise of boogalu, log into http://www.afropop.org/radio/program_stream/ID/9/New%York:Back%20In%The%Day.

BOOGALOO PROFILES

There were many popular Boogaloo bands including Joe Cuba, Johnny Colon, Ricardo Ray, Joe Bataan, King Nando, Joey Pastrana, the Lebron Brothers, the Hi-Latins, Pete Terrace and Pucho and the Latin Soul Brothers. This section will profile several of the important musicians that were synonymous the infectious, funky sounds of Boogalu.

JOE CUBA

Joe Cuba ( born Gilberto Miguel Calderon) of Puerto Rican descent grew up in Spanish Harlem surrounded African American and Puerto Rican music and culture. A talented conga player he began his career playing with the Joe Panama Quintet. He went on to took over the leadership of this band which ultimately became “The Cha Cha Boy’s". They made their first appearance at the San Juan Club in 1953. The Cha Cha Boys band was later named The Joe Cuba Sextet and they began holding court at the Starlight Room in the Bronx. The Joe Cuba Sextet was comprised of timbales, vibraphones, piano, bass and wonderful singers like legendary Jimmy Sabater and Cheo Feliciano. Jimmy Sabater and Joe Cuba wrote the song “Bang, Bang” which is on the CD Wanted Dead or Alive. Wanted Dead or Alive sold over a million copies and climbed to number 63 in the US pop chart in 1966.

During an interview I conducted with Joe Cuba in October 2000, he said that his 1965 tune called “El Pito” contained many elements synonymous with his later Boogalu style. "El Pito" is was based on a Dizzy Gillespie melody "I'll Never Go Back to Georgia." "El Pito" was created to finish an album called We Must Be Doing Something Right. Cuba said in his desperation to complete the album he told the band members to repeatedly play the band’s sign off musical phrase (Asi Se Gozar) and they were instructed to laugh, talk, clap and create a party atmosphere. The song was constructed around this recurring musical theme, interspersed with joyful, raucous party sounds. Cuba later added the sound of whistles. When a DJ at WBLS radio in New York played "El Pito", it was an immediate hit. During live performances, Joe would whip his audiences into a frenzy by throwing whistles out to the crowd so that they could join in the fun.

Why have the sounds of the legendary Joe Cuba endured so long? According to Max Salazar the answer is simple. “The success of the Joe Cuba Sextet is a result of elements, six musicians, four self taught …original songs…quality arrangements.. the intended execution of the arrangements and promotion." (Salazar 1992)

Joe Cuba is considered one of the first Latino/Nuyorrican (New Yorker of Puerto Rican descent) Salsa musicians to incorporate English into his lyrics. Recently Alfredo Naranjo,percussionist, released Las 6 Es La Cita: Tributo A Joe Cuba. Joe Cuba remains quite active and ebullient about his life, his music and the Harlem neighborhood where he still lives. He is one of the founders of the International Salsa Museum and has recorded over 20 albums. If you go to the International Salsa Museum in New York, you just might run into him--like I did.

http://www.salsacrazy.com/salsaroots/boogalu.htm

My mother is from the South Bronx and she said all the Ricans and Blacks listened to songs like these









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Pucho Brown is Black American but he also ran with Ricans and he explains some of the dynamic/cross fertalization



.

 

[151_Pr00f]

These threads are always started from people who live in cities with a a huge hispanic population.. I mean are the race relations really that bad up there between yall? I was born and raised down south and the stuff you guys argue over generally isn't an issue down here. Breakdancing? We not doing that down here................ saying nikka? Sagging? After a certain age that all just seems silly. How about focusing on the things that matter like education and family and securing a better future for our communities.

 

[Remote]

Mexicans are horrible. @Raul, your ppl are some garbage. Ya'll only stand for your own causes but want our help and attention. fukk ya'll. All ya'll ever ask for is our help but when we need ya'll to help us, all of a sudden "habla no Ingles."

Well , I'm Dominican, not Mexican.

But seeing as you're lumping all latinos together,

As far as Latinos infiltrating hip hop? Eh. Yall can be mad at what yall want.

All I know is aint a rapper alive today that could have fukked with Big Pun back in the day

 

[Kobes Two Jerseys]

Everything said in the above post is absolute truth.
Anyone thinking otherwise did not grow up around ricans.

It is a fact that hip hop was started by a Jamaican.
It is a fact that not one single 'rican' had an inkling to do with hip hop during "day 1" times, so to speak.
It is a fact that they only became familiar to it because they basically lived right down the block anyway, went to the same schools as the Black kids, etc.
And even then, they weren't "on" hip hop. Didn't give a fukk about it. And the ones that did were frowned upon by older ricos or downright forbidden.

It is a fact that those early latino rappers only were accepted because they got a proverbial "pass".. which essentially just symbolized the same tolerance that had began to take place in the hood towards them.

Naturally, the hip hop industry reflected that.

But that is lonnnng after "day 1" times.

And finally, and what I regret to admit most, yes many of them are downright RACIST, untrustworthy, and will literally smile in your face and turn around and stab you in the back.
You are only useful to them because you're Black, which equals "cool".

They will dap you up, call you their "nikka", and yet would turn around and want to empty an entire clip in your "Black ass" if you even thought twice about dating a rican chick.. shyt be like "you cool my ******, but you not that cool".. type shyt






*I know I shouldn't have to add this, as many of us are mature enough to understand this without it being said.. but.. I, of course, am not referring to every single individual rican. I'm sure you can name your rican homeboy who's "been down with you from day one". I am speaking in general, not literal. And I am only speaking on my experience from where I lived.

oh, so youre saying Blacks dont do that?

 

[Kobes Two Jerseys]

They mixed Dominican/black. Anthony Cruz, AZ ain't Hispanic?

AZ is only Hispanic when it's convenient. Back in the 90s, he did an interview with Vibe I think and said" I'm not latino, I don't even speak that Spanish shyt".

 

[Blackout]

The latinos of back then who was cool with black people and those latinos of today who are cool with black people are falling in number while those who hate us are growing in number.

 

[KyokushinKarateMan]

oh, so youre saying Blacks dont do that?

the fukk??

.

 

[GreatestLaker]

Jamaicans trying to cling to Black American culture so bad

Reggae and dancehall

The greatest American rapper is Jamaican.

 

[Poitier]

The greatest American rapper is Jamaican.

Not even top 5