A QUESTION FOR THE OLD HEADS.....DID ILLMATIC REALLY HAVE AS MUCH OF AN IMPACT AS PEOPLE SAY.....

[daze23]

How about it took 7 years and a high profile beef to go plat, while other albums of the era were movin off the shelves

and some well known albums from that era, like Common's Resurrection, never went gold. who was really moving units in 94? Big and Coolio?

 

[ISO]

How about it took 7 years and a high profile beef to go plat, while other albums of the era were movin off the shelves

It was a debut album, in 1994 Nas was relatively unknown, he didn't have a big label push, East Coast wasn't selling like that, he didn't put out radio friendly singles you dumbass.

 

[lutha]

Your last post came across like you were low key trying to say Illmatic didn't deserve that 5, but it wasn't clear - so I asked you to clarify. I have been reading your posts.

If you are aware of a few classics that got less than 4.5 from the Source...add on. Let's explore this bias.

You missed the "etc." Check the post from @ISOMELO he mentioned artists from Detroit, NC, LA, Chicago. Nationwide.

Also, the bolded part really makes it seem like Illmatic had a tremendous impact.

i dont do no 'low key' shyt...if i didnt think it deserved 5 mics, i wouldve said so...

naw, not getting into that cause that's all opinion...besides, 4.5 isnt what we were discussing, it was 5 mics...they gave 4.5s to prevent from giving 5 mics at the time..

i saw his post...i take that as people paying the standard homage that goes along with illmatic...it's reached the place you have to say things like that or it's considered hating...look at this thread....if i'm mistaken, i'll admit it...

naw, no tremendous impact...all eyes were on him cause he dropped a classic album, so people wanted to see how he'd follow it up...again: it didnt have the impact the legend says it did...it's a great album, leave it at that...

 

[mobbinfms]

i dont do no 'low key' shyt...if i didnt think it deserved 5 mics, i wouldve said so...

naw, not getting into that cause that's all opinion...besides, 4.5 isnt what we were discussing, it was 5 mics...they gave 4.5s to prevent from giving 5 mics at the time..

i saw his post...i take that as people paying the standard homage that goes along with illmatic...it's reached the place you have to say things like that or it's considered hating...look at this thread....if i'm mistaken, i'll admit it...

naw, no tremendous impact...all eyes were on him cause he dropped a classic album, so people wanted to see how he'd follow it up...again: it didnt have the impact the legend says it did...it's a great album, leave it at that...

What do you mean they gave 4.5s to prevent from giving 5? See, to me, that sounds like you're saying they were shytting on certain albums by giving them 4.5. But, maybe I'm misinterpreting you.

Naming your mixtape/album after illmatic (or modeling it after illmatic) is not "the standard homage" and you don't have to do that to avoid being considered a hater. These albums/mixtapes are direct evidence of the impact and influence this album had nationwide. To be fair, all of these artists could have heard it well after it was released.

If the album got Dr. Dre interested enough to work with him, it made an impact. I don't see how you could see it otherwise? Where is the financial motivation? Illmatic didn't sell.

 

[lutha]

What do you mean they gave 4.5s to prevent from giving 5? See, to me, that sounds like you're saying they were shytting on certain albums by giving them 4.5. But, maybe I'm misinterpreting you.

Naming your mixtape/album after illmatic (or modeling it after illmatic) is not "the standard homage" and you don't have to do that to avoid being considered a hater. These albums/mixtapes are direct evidence of the impact and influence this album had nationwide. To be fair, all of these artists could have heard it well after it was released.

If the album got Dr. Dre interested enough to work with him, it made an impact. I don't see how you could see it otherwise? Where is the financial motivation? Illmatic didn't sell.

you're right, that's what i'm saying...the source did shyt on albums from other regions by giving them 4.5s instead of 5s....just go back and look at the albums they changed to 5s later on...the majority were from other regions...but that's besides the point and has nothing to do with illmatic...

no it's not impact/influence....that is homage and trying to get people to notice you...anytime someone names/models something after something people consider classic, that'll get people to notice you, get you press, etc...i'm not bullshytting you, illmatic is a great album, but it didn't have the impact/influence like that at the time of the release...

naw, not true...the lack of sales actually helped the financial motivation....the label took it as they dropped the ball with something people were hailing as a timeless masterpiece...so they gave nas a bigger budget to try to top illmatic, or at least make another one so they could reap the rewards....they were going by the theory bigger means better....that includes working with producers that are more well known like dre...

 

[Still Benefited]

What do you mean they gave 4.5s to prevent from giving 5? See, to me, that sounds like you're saying they were shytting on certain albums by giving them 4.5. But, maybe I'm misinterpreting you.

Naming your mixtape/album after illmatic (or modeling it after illmatic) is not "the standard homage" and you don't have to do that to avoid being considered a hater. These albums/mixtapes are direct evidence of the impact and influence this album had nationwide. To be fair, all of these artists could have heard it well after it was released.

If the album got Dr. Dre interested enough to work with him, it made an impact. I don't see how you could see it otherwise? Where is the financial motivation? Illmatic didn't sell.

People in the business of rap ie rappers/producers hearing him and fukin wit em is different from him being checked for by the masses.

 

[mobbinfms]

you're right, that's what i'm saying...the source did shyt on albums from other regions by giving them 4.5s instead of 5s....just go back and look at the albums they changed to 5s later on...the majority were from other regions...but that's besides the point and has nothing to do with illmatic...

no it's not impact/influence....that is homage and trying to get people to notice you...anytime someone names/models something after something people consider classic, that'll get people to notice you, get you press, etc...i'm not bullshytting you, illmatic is a great album, but it didn't have the impact/influence like that at the time of the release...

naw, not true...the lack of sales actually helped the financial motivation....the label took it as they dropped the ball with something people were hailing as a timeless masterpiece...so they gave nas a bigger budget to try to top illmatic, or at least make another one so they could reap the rewards....they were going by the theory bigger means better....that includes working with producers that are more well known like dre...

Actually, exactly half of the albums were from other regions.
I'll grant you that people tend to act from self interest, but its ridiculous to completely rule out impact and influence in terms of other artists naming projects after Illmatic. Is there another album that has been name checked/remade as much? I'm sure there is, but I can't think of it now.

So now people were hailing Illmatic as a timeless masterpiece? Must have had quite an impact?

People in the business of rap ie rappers/producers hearing him and fukin wit em is different from him being checked for by the masses.

It is. No one is arguing it had a huge commercial/mainstream splash. But it did have a huge impact on the culture. The response from other artists is evidence of that.

 

[Still Benefited]

Actually, exactly half of the albums were from other regions.
I'll grant you that people tend to act from self interest, but its ridiculous to completely rule out impact and influence in terms of other artists naming projects after Illmatic. Is there another album that has been name checked/remade as much? I'm sure there is, but I can't think of it now.

So now people were hailing Illmatic as a timeless masterpiece? Must have had quite an impact?

It is. No one is arguing it had a huge commercial/mainstream splash. But it did have a huge impact on the culture. The response from other artists is evidence of that.

Everytime Eminem drops,other lyricist check for his shyt,does that make all of his albums impactful? Everytime a nikka takes the lead as the nicest in NY other NY emcees take note and try to be better and outdo that guy,at least back when that mattered...does that really make they album impactful neccesarily? I'm sure all the lyricist had that thought proccess about Nas before illmatic ever dropped as illmatic ain't the first time most lyricist wouldve heard em...illmatic probaly just confirmed he was dope to them I guess if they needed confirmation...that's just not impactful to me.

Even at Nas prime,Snoop was the mc that most nikkas wanted to hear rap and were in awe of the most I think its safe to say...so Nas couldn't even say he had the impact of bein considered best rapper back then.....you can't even say as a mc Nas had the nations ear like that...that was mostly a local competetion...Kurupt even had more nikkas waitin to see what he was gon bring as an mc more than Nas out west at least...even the impact of his lyrical talent wasn't felt all over.

And if not for the rating,its a lot of people who don't check for that album if they didn't already know about or care about Nas...he's just another nice nikka who his peers know is nice...that rating is pretty impactful.

 

[mobbinfms]

Everytime Eminem drops,other lyricist check for his shyt,does that make all of his albums impactful? Everytime a nikka takes the lead as the nicest in NY other NY emcees take note and try to be better and outdo that guy,at least back when that mattered...does that really make they album impactful neccesarily? I'm sure all the lyricist had that thought proccess about Nas before illmatic ever dropped as illmatic ain't the first time most lyricist wouldve heard em...illmatic probaly just confirmed he was dope to them I guess if they needed confirmation...that's just not impactful to me.

Even at Nas prime,Snoop was the mc that most nikkas wanted to hear rap and were in awe of the most I think its safe to say...so Nas couldn't even say he had the impact of bein considered best rapper back then.....you can't even say as a mc Nas had the nations ear like that...that was mostly a local competetion...Kurupt even had more nikkas waitin to see what he was gon bring as an mc more than Nas out west at least...even the impact of his lyrical talent wasn't felt all over.

And if not for the rating,its a lot of people who don't check for that album if they didn't already know about or care about Nas...he's just another nice nikka who his peers know is nice...that rating is pretty impactful.

I agree with the Eminem thing. I think the NY thing does show a very strong impact.
Agree most lyricists had heard Nas prior to Illmatic, but there wasn't a lot of material before the album dropped. Besides, any impact he had before Illmatic dropped just folds into Illmatic if you ask me. With the exception of maybe BBQ.
Agree, same audience that checked for Snoop checked for Nas, then every other audience imaginable also checked for Snoop. From a lyrical standpoint, the interest would have been higher for Nas. Obviously, there were a lot of regional fans checking for Too Short or Scarface who didn't give two fukks about Nas or Illmatic. But if you were checking for lyrics and tuned into the underground at the time, you would have been checking for Nas. Nationwide.
Would have been really interesting to see what happened if the album got a 4. But who knows.

 

[daze23]

Snoop had a certain appeal because he was out there basically singing. almost every popular Snoop song has a hook drunk frat boys can sing along with

that boom bap hip-hop sound was just too harsh for some people. had to give it some smooth rolling bass and a dude singing on it to sell it to the masses. and don't forget to represent ultra-violent and hypersexualized steroetypes, cause no one wants to hear that off-the-wall back to Africa shyt...

 

[intilectual recipricol]

Snoop had a certain appeal because he was out there basically singing. almost every popular Snoop song has a hook drunk frat boys can sing along with

that boom bap hip-hop sound was just too harsh for some people. had to give it some smooth rolling bass and a dude singing on it to sell it to the masses. and don't forget to represent ultra-violent and hypersexualized steroetypes, cause no one wants to hear that off-the-wall back to Africa shyt...

I guess naS blastin a bytch, makin nikkaz backflip, and stabbin bytches like the phantom aint ultra violent... Handin naS a nine so he can defeat foes aint violent... You naS stans will fukkin say anything to protect dude, he wasnt any different from any gangsta rapper, only he said shyt just to rhyme on illmatic.

 

[daze23]

I guess naS blastin a bytch, makin nikkaz backflip, and stabbin bytches like the phantom aint ultra violent... Handin naS a nine so he can defeat foes aint violent... You naS stans will fukkin say anything to protect dude, he wasnt any different from any gangsta rapper, only he said shyt just to rhyme on illmatic.

I could give a bunch of nuanced explanations about different approaches and context, but it would probably be a waste of time. what I was speaking on was a little beyond the scope of Mr Nasir Jones

 

[intilectual recipricol]

I could give a bunch of nuanced explanations about different approaches and context, but it would probably be a waste of time. what I was speaking on was a little beyond the scope of Mr Nasir Jones

we dontbelieve you, you need more people. I have never come across a naS stan who had any nuanced explanations. You were attempting to draw a line between naS and Snoop of the day which required you to ignore all the gratuitous violence in naS shyt. Shootin kids in the lobby probly and what not.

 

[MR. Conclusion]

Look at it like this. At that time NY repped something like what 55% of the rappers? Then you had maybe 40% from west coast? and another 15% percent elsewhere. Don't get caught up in the numbers, just understand my point that the majority of rappers were NY based.

When he dropped, he affected NY MCs. They all knew the bar was risen and they had to step they game up. If it affects 55% of the rap game, then yeah Illmatic had a significant impact.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

Look at it like this. At that time NY repped something like what 55% of the rappers? Then you had maybe 40% from west coast? and another 15% percent elsewhere. Don't get caught up in the numbers, just understand my point that the majority of rappers were NY based.

When he dropped, he affected NY MCs. They all knew the bar was risen and they had to step they game up. If it affects 55% of the rap game, then yeah Illmatic had a significant impact.

No, you think ny had 55% of rappers because of the bias. Nobody gave a fukk about no ny nikkaz outside of a select few.