A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

dennis roadman

dennis roadman

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:dwillhuh: from a comment on those vids yall are posting

First the end of the cloak story (that Mance tells Jon) tells us that Rhaegar did marry Lyanna, because he says that he left the NW (Iron Throne and fight for power) because he didn't want anyone to dictate which cloak he should wear (which person he would marry). Which brings us to the ToJ. It is situated between Nightsong and Kingsgrave. Highly symbolic and puts us not only in a physical place, but in a timeframe between the death of Aerys and Rhaegar's move to the Shadow Tower. 3 KG were protecting the king as they should. Keep in mind that RT is Ned's brother-in-law and that the sole reason Ned fought in RR was to avenge his brother and father, not to fight Rhaegar. I do not have enough space to elaborate, but Ned brought 6 nothmen with him who could enable a safe passage from the Neck to the Shadow Tower because that is where their lands are. When "they came together in rush of steel and shadow", they all swore a secret oath. There is no blood in that scene. And so Mance's story begins and RT's ends. As for Lyanna and Jon, I am still not 100% certain they were at the ToJ. If you read carefully, you will see that there is a cut, between "coming together in the rush of steel and shadow" and the next scene in which Lyanna is dying. The second scene need not be located in the ToJ at all. I bet it happened in Starfall where Ned and Reed went WITH the Sword of the Morning i.e. Ser Arthur Dayne. How else would the Dornish who were still at war with the rebels let them through? As for Reed saving Ned's life at the ToJ, it's quite simple - Ned married Catelyn instead of Ashara. Any brother would be enraged. I also suspect Ned, Jon, Dayne and Reed took a boat from Starfall to the Bear Island where another transformation happened. But, I leave you to ponder that for a while.
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GRRM is either a stone cold genius or in waaaay over his head
 
Adam3000

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I'm seeing some people speculating that Sansa may sort of take on the 'avenging' role of Lady Stoneheart :patrice:

The trailer seems to point to it with Littlefingers comments, plus she is within quick contact with Brienne:patrice:

If Sansa starts murdering Freys I think I'm gonna like it:demonic:
 
Adam3000

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Some generous nerd on Reddit took the liberty of breaking down the entire trailer:
  1. Jaime standing in Sept of Baelor over Tywin's body, female (Cersei) leaving up the steps.
  2. Knights of the Vale riding across some fields.
  3. Cersei standing over Tywin's body.
  4. Jaime crying, presumably talking to Cersei over Tywin's body.
  5. Jon arriving at Hardhome via small rowboat, hundreds of wildlings awaiting his arrival. Could also be Eastwatch but based on leaks we'll assume it's Hardhome for the rest of the trailer.
  6. Bronn drawing his sword, a spear pointing in his face.
  7. Sons of the Harpy in their masks. May be worth noting that one of the masks looks similar to the skull on the gate in Lhazar when we meet Mirri Maz Duur, which is also similar to the skull on the table when Jorah meets Quaithe.
  8. Petyr holding a crying Sansa on a hill ("Petyr - There's no justice in this world, not unless we make it").
  9. Ellaria, Nymeria, Obara and Tyene in the sand standing over a captive with a bucket on his head. Obara whips the bucket off his head. Captive is a bald man.
  10. A palace of some kind, could be The Water Gardens in Sunspear but more likely a wider shot of Illyrio's Manse.
  11. Petyr holding Sansa again, (Petyr - "Avenge them").
  12. Wildlings at Hardhome marching into the sea, their movements look rather robotic and lacking urgency, could be resurrected wights or maybe just slower motion footage of them fleeing.
  13. A young, blonde girl drawing blood from her finger with a knife. Likely to be Young Cersei in the Maegi flashback. Blood drips from her finger into a fire, flames intensify.
  14. Tommen and Margaery's wedding ceremony, a septon stands in the background, crowd inclues Pycelle, Cersei, Loras, Mace.
  15. Lord of Bones leading a wildling host, has a badass staff.
  16. Varys and Tyrion talking in the gardens of Illyrio's Manse. (Varys - "I believe men of talent have a part to play in the war to come", Tyrion - "I will never sit on the Iron Throne", Varys "You could help another climb those steps and take that seat")
  17. Tyrion rolling out of a shipping crate, looking a bit haggard.
  18. A crowd in the courtyard at Castle Black. Familiar faces include Stannis, Davos, Melisandre, Jon, Alliser, Janos. It appears someone is about to get sacrificed to R'hllor. A figure near the foreground is guarded by two of Stannis' soldiers, looks like it could be Mance Rayder.
  19. Cersei in what looks like a dungeon though she looks fairly pleased with herself.
  20. Varys and Tyrion walking through the streets of (probably) Volantis
  21. Someone with long, dark hair being chased through the woods on horseback by 3 riders, location must be southern as it's not snowing, looks like it could be the wood where Tyrion meets Shagga and Timmett, also could be generic Riverlands setting. seems unlikely to be Northern in this season but the weather was fine when Ramsay was playing in the woods last season so who knows? The riders definitely do not look like the Knight's of the Vale seen later in the trailer.
  22. Jon Snow looking pensieve, Longclaw looking awesome
  23. Sansa laying in bed looking up, a guard at the door.
  24. Two young highborn girls walking through some foliage, the footage looks slow and 'dreamy', most likely Cersei's flashback and the characters are Cersei and Melara.
  25. A bald man holding a weapon standing alone outside the gate at Hardhome. Night's King? Would be a weird entrance.
  26. Interior view of the gate at Hardhome, some soldiers standing looking at the gate as if expecting an intruder, 4 men standing atop the gate. An icy mist drifts through the gate.
  27. Daenerys looking focused and stone-faced, spouting nonsense (Daenerys "I'm not going to stop the wheel (?), I'm going to break the wheel")
  28. Jorah fighting a pitfighter in Daznak's Pit. Pitfighter is well armored and wearing a helmet, he is twirling a long weapon, could be a scythe.
  29. A box opens on a table revealing a viper holding Myrcella's necklace in it's mouth. Cersei is looking at it and probably understands it as a threat from Doran, despite it more likely being a threat from the Sand Snakes.
  30. Tyrion still looking haggard and concerned. (Tyrion "I don't think I'm ready for what I deserve")
  31. Cersei furiously barking at Jaime over Tywin's body. (Cersei - "That little monsters out othere somewhere drawing breathe")
  32. Mel walking purposefully with a torch, Nightswatchmen crowded in the background. Could be about to burn a body.
  33. As suspected Mel lights a pyre, not the same scene 'Scene 18' in the courtyard, the centrepiece there looked more like a gallows/crucifix as we saw on Dragonstone, this is the usual Night's Watch pyre with what looks like a nightswatchmen burning on it. The body is holding something metal across his chest, I'm positive this is Maester Aemon and the metal is his Maester's Chain.
  34. Tyrion drinking wine in the gardens of Illyrio's Manse again, still talking to Varys.
  35. Jon Snow leading an attack (Jon - "With Me!"). Two hosts clash at Hardhome, looks like Wildlings vs. Nightswatch
  36. Jaime entering a Dornish palace, probably Sunspear, being followed by a spearman.
  37. A woman in revealing vest moving seductively in front of a man sat on a bed. Almost certainly Dornish, could be one of the Sandsnakes and Jaime/Bronn.
  38. The lift ascending up The Wall.
  39. Olenna either giving advice or making a threat. (Olenna - "They'll never even fine what's left of you")
  40. Jon snow cutting down a wildling at Hardhome.
  41. A Dornish rider in the sands whipping Jaime, knocking him off his feet. Could be Obara Sand.
  42. A Son of the Harpy in a golden mask in the streets of Meereen. The wall behind him reads "Kill the Masters" from Season 4.
  43. Reek looking reekish.
  44. Two Dornish riders in the sands, the same scene as 'Scene 41', one of the riders bears down on Bronn about to swing his sword, Bronn, on foot, swings his sword first and cuts the horse down, the rider falls from the horses back.
  45. The Faith Militant descending some steps in King's Landing. Al wearing plain black robes. Two of the militants smash open a barrel with axes, sending the contents pouring into the street. There are lots of barrels in the background which suggests they've raided a pub and are disposing of the alcohol.
  46. Arya arriving at the House of Black and White, standing before a Half-Weirwood/Half-Ebony door.
  47. Arya in braavosi clothes standing at a dock, picking needle up off the ground and inspecting it. Looks like she is struggling with the idea of losing her last possession from her former life.
  48. Knight's of the Vale riding across the hills.
  49. A Chessboard style Map of the North, similar to those used by Robb Stark and Stannis Baratheon earlier in the series. The only pieces on the board are 'Flayed Man' pieces representing House Bolton. It seems someone is devising a strategy to attack Roose Bolton.
  50. As in previous scenes, Tyrion and Varys still talking in the gadens of Illyrio's Manse. (Varys - "The Seven Kingdoms needs a ruler loved by millions with a powerful army and the right family name", Tyrion "Good Luck finding him", Varys - "Who said anything about him?")
  51. Daenerys looking stone-faced again.
  52. Rhaegal roasting somebody in the dark.
  53. Dozens of rowboats with wildlings hastily rowing away from Hardhome. They seem to be in a hurry as one wildling is swimming in the water trying to get aboard one of the rowboats and the man aboard the boat continues rowing, leaving him to swim. Could be the wildlings abandoning their scrap with the Nightswatch and fleeing as the battle has been interrupted by arrival of The Others.
  54. Missandei leaning in to kiss Grey Worm, who is laying down and teary eyed. RIP Greyworm?
  55. A pitfighter in Meereen deals a knockout blow to another warrior, being watched from the stands by Daenerys and Hizdahr. Neither of the fighters are recognizable. The one getting knocked out looks plainclothed and has dark hair. The victor is wearing leather armor and a black helmet, he seems to be hitting the other man over the head with his own helmet.
  56. Melisandre exposing her t*ts in what looks like the Lord Commander's chambers.
  57. Daenerys, Grey Worm, Daario and Barristan descending some steps, guarded by many Unsullied soldiers.
  58. Another Dornish sands scene, 3 Dornish riders appear to have surrounded Jaime and Bronn.
  59. Ellaria facing 3 Dornish spears, they appear to be taking her into custody. seems she is replacing Arianne in that regard.
  60. A hand, maybe touching a piece of paper or squeezing something in pain. Absolutely no idea what this is.
  61. A bald wildling with a weapon I don't recognize getting pumped up, ready for a duel. Wildlings looking on the background next to an unlit pyre/bonfire. The weapon is like a weird scythe/poleaxe hybrid. This could maybe be an unmasked Lord of Bones and I misidentified the 'staff' in an earlier scene.
  62. Two horsemen escaping from a stable/farmhouse into the woods. One of these could be the rider being pursued in 'Scene 21'. Generic Riverlands look to the setting. The two horsemen are almost certainly Brienne and Podrick.
  63. Sons of the Harpy killing Unsullied in the streets of Meereen. A fire rages in the background.
  64. Margaery being comforted by Tommen. She's teary-eyed, looking pretty vengeful. Could be that Loras has been taken into custody by the faith.
  65. Chaos in Daznak's Pit. Daenerys, Daario, Missandei and Jorah stand in the middle of the pit, defended by 12 unsullied but surrounded by dozens of Sons of the Harpy in their masks. In the stands the spectators are frantically trying to escape as they're being massacred by the Sons of the Harpy. The stand is full of dead bodies. Grey Worm, Barristan, Hizdahr and Tyrion are nowhere to be seen.
  66. A raven flies into an icy cage. There's something in the cage, maybe a burnt letter or a rotting, dead animal or something.
  67. The Harpy statue atop the Great Pyramid of Meereen is torn down. It descends the pyramid and crashes through into the ground. The statue appeared to be descending into the steps where Rhaegal/Viserion are being held, perhaps that is how the dragons are loosed in the absence of the dragontmer Quentyn? This scene must be a response their Queen deserting them by flying away on Drogon. If the statue had beentorn down before that I doubt Daenerys and co. would be enjoying a day out at the pitfights in the midst of a civil war.
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detroitwalt

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To the surprise of absolutely no one, Winds of Winter won't be dropping this year.:aicmon:


Another year of waiting for The Winds of Winter to blow is in store for fans of George RR Martin, as his publisher confirmed there are no plans for the much-anticipated latest volume from his A Song of Ice and Fire series to appear in 2015. Instead, readers will have to comfort themselves with an illustrated edition of three previously anthologised novellas set in the world of Westeros.

A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms takes place nearly a century before the bloody events of the A Song of Ice and Fire series, when the Iron Throne was still held by the Targaryens. Out in October, it is a compilation of the first three official prequel novellas to the series, The Hedge Knight, The Sworn Sword and The Mystery Knight, never before collected, and now set for release in a new illustrated edition.
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detroitwalt

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I love the GoT diehards hat do this cause I never would
Album of stills from the trailer


Maise Williams did an AMA yesterday and said there is 1 scene where Arya gets more emotional than she ever has. That's the only thing she would say about season 5
 
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Adam3000

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There seems to be a very credible show spoiler going around Reddit

I'm actually going to spoiler tag it even in this thread, because even book readers may not want to read it. It is a potential change from the books so it will spoil the show, but it also has potential major implications for what may become of a certain character in Winds of Winter.

Based on the circumstances around how the spoiler started, I would say there is a solid 60/40 chance of it being legit

Jon leads a ranging party to Hardhome where they encounter White Walkers. As the Nights Watch/Wildlings try to flee, Jon tries to get them to stay and fight. They stab him in revolt. As he lays dying, the White Walkers scoop him up and put him on the back of their horse and ride off to end the season
 
The Watcher

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Adam3000 said:
There seems to be a very credible show spoiler going around Reddit

I'm actually going to spoiler tag it even in this thread, because even book readers may not want to read it. It is a potential change from the books so it will spoil the show, but it also has potential major implications for what may become of a certain character in Winds of Winter.

Based on the circumstances around how the spoiler started, I would say there is a solid 60/40 chance of it being legit

Jon leads a ranging party to Hardhome where they encounter White Walkers. As the Nights Watch/Wildlings try to flee, Jon tries to get them to stay and fight. They stab him in revolt. As he lays dying, the White Walkers scoop him up and put him on the back of their horse and ride off to end the season
Click to expand...

I am more excited to see Hardhome than I've been about any change the show has made. I was pissed we weren't going to see it in ADWD. We are about to be book spoiled like crazy this season. Dead things in the water.

:blessed:

"He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold..."

Holy shyt.

Getting stabbed up burns. I just realized that every I've ever heard someone talk about being knifed, either in fiction or real life, it's always "feels like being on fire". I've never heard it compared to "the cold". Initially, I took that line metaphorically, "only the cold = deathtime". If that is supposed to be taken literally, then "only the cold" means Jon stopped getting stabbed up because the white walkers show up.

Mother fukker.

This really sounds right.

Captain White Walker Jon Snow.

I think I believe. I think I really, really believe.
 
Adam3000

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The Watcher said:
I am more excited to see Hardhome than I've been about any change the show has made. I was pissed we weren't going to see it in ADWD. We are about to be book spoiled like crazy this season. Dead things in the water.

:blessed:

"He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold..."

Holy shyt.

Getting stabbed up burns. I just realized that every I've ever heard someone talk about being knifed, either in fiction or real life, it's always "feels like being on fire". I've never heard it compared to "the cold". Initially, I took that line metaphorically, "only the cold = deathtime". If that is supposed to be taken literally, then "only the cold" means Jon stopped getting stabbed up because the white walkers show up.

Mother fukker.

This really sounds right.

Captain White Walker Jon Snow.

I think I believe. I think I really, really believe.
Click to expand...

Even if this spoiler ends up being true, it still could potentially be a major deviation from the books. I still think that Jon is going to warg into Ghost while his body remains in limbo. Perhaps the showrunners didn't think that would make for very good television since there is no internal monologue available. This might be a stopgap solution and will give us an excuse to learn more about the Others in the meantime. Who knows
 
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