AAVE is as complex as Standard American English

[HarlemHottie]

In some ways I don't like that this article is out there. It's 'teaching' too much. We know already. In contrast, we know who this article was written for. It's like trying to prove our language is worthy, too much telling, specifically the breakdowns.

I hear you, but don't worry. The part they skimmed over was how, due to our proximity to wp, we change the vocab so regular they can't keep up. (which is why other ppl, esp foreign blacks, think our language is just slang: bc that's the most obvious feature)

 

[Formerly Black Trash]

fukk this article.
Anybody who says Black people speak a language separate from English is an idiot and most likely a cac.
You never see any articles or studies about how Southern cacs talk.

Man it’s stupid
This isn’t just used by Black intellectuals
Your mama and daddy if they care about you and aren’t ignorant will tell you that you better speak correctly to get a damn job

The same types that spouse this are the same ones that get giddy over the most basic Black shyt that real nikka nikkas just do, instead of writing fukking dissertations on it

 

[Shadow]

I hear you, but don't worry. The part they skimmed over was how, due to our proximity to wp, we change the vocab so regular they can't keep up. (which is why other ppl, esp foreign blacks, think our language is just slang: bc that's the most obvious feature)

Understood, however another way this article bothers me is that it seems as though it's written as a sort of case study on us. From the outside looking in, in order to inform others. I understand our language is constantly changing but I don't know, something about the article doesn't feel right to me. Gives me a feeling of "here's how these specimens behave. Here's how you can understand them."

 

[HarlemHottie]

Understood, however another way this article bothers me is that it seems as though it's written as a sort of case study on us. From the outside looking in, in order to inform others. I understand our language is constantly changing but I don't know, something about the article doesn't feel right to me. Gives me a feeling of "here's how these specimens behave. Here's how you can understand them."

I was a linguistics major, they talk about all languages like this. Linguists DO look at them as specimens, like biologists look a various creatures. They mean no disrespect. In fact, they're the ones showing us respect by proving (through an accepted science) that it's legit.

 

[David_TheMan]

Understood, however another way this article bothers me is that it seems as though it's written as a sort of case study on us. From the outside looking in, in order to inform others. I understand our language is constantly changing but I don't know, something about the article doesn't feel right to me. Gives me a feeling of "here's how these specimens behave. Here's how you can understand them."

Analysis is done like this on everyone, you really have to get over the internal feelings you are projecting, when reading studies on black american language patterns

 

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

There is a question of if Ebonics is a dialect or a seperate language academically.

You don't like the scientific study of common ebonics, and how it is more complex than standard english. Why?

McWhorter has a pretty good break down in the Language Hoax of the technical sophistication, its pretty interesting if it is your thing.

I don't fukk with colonial languages in general and think they manifest harms that show themselves everyday on thecoli and in life, but that's not my point on AAVE. Standard English shouldn't be treated as the 'gold standard' is what I'm saying, and the study of our dialect shouldn't always circle back to it and how THEY speak. I'd be much more interested in learning the grammatical similarities between AAVE and west african languages, personally.

 

[Shadow]

I was a linguistics major, they talk about all languages like this. Linguists DO look at them as specimens, like biologists look a various creatures. They mean no disrespect. In fact, they're the ones showing us respect by proving (through an accepted science) that it's legit.

Just seems like it's proving something known by some to be understood by others who don't care anyway. I mean, is proving what we already know going to make them hate our language any less? Doubtful. Who does the article benefit? Those who want to be down? Does the article help or hurt those under observation? Neither? Only informing those who don't care about us? Or informing those who are enamored by us?

 

[David_TheMan]

I don't fukk with colonial languages in general and think they manifest harms that show themselves everyday on thecoli and in life, but that's not my point on AAVE. Standard English shouldn't be treated as the 'gold standard' is what I'm saying, and the study of our dialect shouldn't always circle back to it and how THEY speak. I'd be much more interested in learning the grammatical similarities between AAVE and west african languages.

You not fukking with languages means nothing. lol
Standard English isn't treated as the gold standard academiclly, its just the most common form, its studying the most common form that you can note the deviations and from those deviations study the dialects or different but similar language.

Some of you seem to have internalized an attitude of inferiority, and you project that attitude into studies where it doesn't exist. You have to let that go.

As for what you would like to see, you would never see it if black english wasn't examined at all, and it wouldn't be examined if it wasn't different than common standard american english.

 

[invalid]

Of course it's complex. Try reading the slave narratives or Beloved and see how much of an exercise in comprehension it is.

When you speak to your Mom or older relatives which version of American English do you speak?

Around my grandmother, we would get popped in the mouth when we were little and told "that's how ignorant people speak" or "that's n*ggerish" every time we used AAVE.
She was a high ranking corporate woman so emphasized good diction.

 

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

You not fukking with languages means nothing. lol
Standard English isn't treated as the gold standard academiclly, its just the most common form, its studying the most common form that you can note the deviations and from those deviations study the dialects or different but similar language.

Some of you seem to have internalized an attitude of inferiority, and you project that attitude into studies where it doesn't exist. You have to let that go.

As for what you would like to see, you would never see it if black english wasn't examined at all, and it wouldn't be examined if it wasn't different than common standard american english.

Nah lol you're just missing the superiority complex inherent in colonial education.

Tell me, why is AAVE/Ebonics so different from Standard English?

 

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

I don't fukk with colonial languages in general and think they manifest harms that show themselves everyday on thecoli and in life

Of course it's complex. Try reading the slave narratives or Beloved and see how much of an exercise in comprehension it is.



Around my grandmother, we would get popped in the mouth when we were little and told "that's how ignorant people speak" or "that's n*ggerish" every time we used AAVE.
She was a high ranking corporate woman so emphasized good diction.

 

[HarlemHottie]

Just seems like it's proving something known by some to be understood by others who don't care anyway. I mean, is proving what we already know going to make them hate our language any less? Doubtful. Who does the article benefit? Those who want to be down? Does the article help or hurt those under observation? Neither? Only informing those who don't care about us? Or informing those who are enamored by us?

None of those. The conversation is for scientists. It's part of a larger conversation about Atlantic creoles (languages, not mixed folks). Mind you, these are the same types of people who write long articles about how Latin turned into the Romance languages. It's not personal.

When I was a linguistics major, part of the homework was language trees. They'd show us a totally unknown language (like some ancient polynesian language or something) and make us chart it out. First, you'd have to delineate the articles ('a', 'an', 'the'), then whatever nous and verbs you could sort out. They love and live for languages. I was all up and through the field, and I caught no hints of racism. (unusual, I know, but I was looking and my standard is low- any hint and I'm out).

 

[get these nets]

He was dating my friend (biracial African/ Indian). I think he felt comfortable. He was quickly disabused of that notion.

I reconnected with a middle school buddy in college.
One of his white roommates used to hover around our circle and talked to my buddy publicly in ways that embarrassed me .

I know exactly the type of person you're describing. I used to think that he was just an obnoxious guy, because I had white roommates later and they didn't cross those lines. I'm thinking perhaps my roommates were the exceptions hearing all the stories of bold white folks.


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Of course it's complex. Try reading the slave narratives or Beloved and see how much of an exercise in comprehension it is.



Around my grandmother, we would get popped in the mouth when we were little and told "that's how ignorant people speak" or "that's n*ggerish" every time we used AAVE.
She was a high ranking corporate woman so emphasized good diction.

thanks I ask the parent question when these threads come up....whether it's about AAVE or Haitian Kreyol.

 

[Deuterion]

In some ways I don't like that this article is out there. It's 'teaching' too much. We know already. In contrast, we know who this article was written for. It's like trying to prove our language is worthy, too much telling, specifically the breakdowns.

I think it’s great because it helps us Black Americans understand that there is consistency in the way we speak. We don’t speak this way because we are dumb, we speak this way because it is our own dialect with its own rules and constructs. It should be looked at as empowering and you can use it to educate others who make ignorant statements about our manner of speech.

 

[invalid]

thanks I ask the parent question when these threads come up....whether it's about AAVE or Haitian Kreyol.

My grandparents really influenced how we were raised. I don't think my mom and certainly not my dad would have cared as much. But they certainly let my grandparents yield an undue amount of influence on how we were brought up. Though, I will say, I think today my grandmother would revisit some of her views regarding speech. She would definitely stand behind correct diction but she wouldn't be so quick to denounce AAVE in the way that she did in the past. I think it was just a product of her family background which was a bit detached from mainstream black culture.