AAVE is as complex as Standard American English

[David_TheMan]

Nah lol you're just missing the superiority complex inherent in colonial education.

Tell me, why is AAVE/Ebonics so different from Standard English?

Colonial education or education, you are starting to sound more as if you are scared of education and research more than anything.

Studies have found that as I posted earlier, Ebonics uses subjunctives normally, whereas common english subjunctives are being phased out entirely. As you saw in this article, ebonics uses negatives in the manner of other languages, they don't cancel each other out as they do in standard english, Its common in ebonics for the word " be form" to be left out, as it is in russian languges, it also has a base of words that are used that aren't used in standard english.

Its pretty interesting when you read more about it.

 

[Black Steph Curry]

Of course it's complex. Try reading the slave narratives or Beloved and see how much of an exercise in comprehension it is.



Around my grandmother, we would get popped in the mouth when we were little and told "that's how ignorant people speak" or "that's n*ggerish" every time we used AAVE.
She was a high ranking corporate woman who emphasized good diction.

Sounds like boule c00nery to me.

'Good diction'.

As opposed to what?

Sounds like gma passed down more than wealth.

 

[HarlemHottie]

I reconnected with a middle school buddy in college.
One of his white roommates used to hover around our circle and talked to my buddy publicly in ways that embarrassed me .

I know exactly the type of person you're describing. I used to think that he was just an obnoxious guy, because I had white roommates later and they didn't cross those lines. I'm thinking perhaps my roommates were the exceptions hearing all the stories of bold white folks.

.

I'll be honest. I'm the kinda old school but young bw that wp don't really play with. I shut wp down REAL QUICK. He only felt comfortable bc of my friend. He ain't think he was gon get it, like he was grandfathered in, but he did.

 

[HarlemHottie]

Sounds like boule c00nery to me.

'Good diction'.

As opposed to what?

Sounds like gma passed down more than wealth.

My grandmother was a maid for rich ppl. Part of her job was SAE. Her girls (my mom and aunt) speak SAE and AAVE. Can't speak for homie, but fluency in SAE was seen as a 'cert'.

 

[invalid]

I think it’s great because it helps us Black Americans understand that there is consistency in the way we speak. We don’t speak this way because we are dumb, we speak this way because it is our own dialect with its own rules and constructs. It should be looked at as empowering and you can use it to educate others who make ignorant statements about our manner of speech.

I think this is a great point.
I also think we need to emphasize that language, being the primary way we communicate with others, is dynamic and should be curated based on the receiving party or accepted norms.
It is unwise to use language in a way that is static as it can lead to barriers in communication.

 

[Armchair Militant]

It becomes a problem when black kids don’t flip the switch when they’re doing their school work. I hate to see it.

 

[Deuterion]

Just seems like it's proving something known by some to be understood by others who don't care anyway. I mean, is proving what we already know going to make them hate our language any less? Doubtful. Who does the article benefit? Those who want to be down? Does the article help or hurt those under observation? Neither? Only informing those who don't care about us? Or informing those who are enamored by us?

You adding too much emotion to it...there’s basically two common schools of thought regarding the study of verbal communication, there are Linguists and Grammarians. Linguists remove the race and unnecessary sociological bullshyt and look at the communication scientifically e.g. “how did Person A communicate to Person B and how does that fit into the modern framework of human language?”

Grammarians are the ones who create class distinctions because they create a baseline for the communication e.g. SAE and denigrate any variants of it. They then begin to pick and choose because a New England dialect spoken by Whites will be respected for it’s grammatical and accentual differences while something like AAVE won’t.

 

[HarlemHottie]

You not fukking with languages means nothing. lol
Standard English isn't treated as the gold standard academiclly, its just the most common form, its studying the most common form that you can note the deviations and from those deviations study the dialects or different but similar language.

Some of you seem to have internalized an attitude of inferiority, and you project that attitude into studies where it doesn't exist. You have to let that go.

As for what you would like to see, you would never see it if black english wasn't examined at all, and it wouldn't be examined if it wasn't different than common standard american english.

You're right, and to build on this, if you wanna get into a language hierarchy, SAE is seen as lower than British English (to non linguists). But linguists study them all as exciting new developments , no judgement. It's a black-friendly field, imo.

 

[get these nets]

My grandparents really influenced how we were raised. I don't think my mom and certainly not my dad would have cared as much. But they certainly let my grandparents yield an undue amount of influence on how we were brought up. Though, I will say, I think today my grandmother would revisit some of her views regarding speech. She would definitely stand behind correct diction but she wouldn't be so quick to denounce AAVE in the way that she did in the past. I think it was just a product of her family background which was a bit detached from mainstream black culture.

Thanks again for being candid.
I think the generation she was from had something to with it also. The way society changed in your parents' era led to them coming in contact with Blacks from different social strata ,regions and countries in ways that your grands did not.

I bring up and ask "how do you speak to, and around, your folks?" in these threads because in real life convos bout this topic, there is tendency to simplify things into "white" and Black speech. As if using proper diction, grammar, and pronunciation when speaking to our mothers is "talking white" or "speaking white" .I never bought into that.

 

[Shadow]

I think it’s great because it helps us Black Americans understand that there is consistency in the way we speak. We don’t speak this way because we are dumb, we speak this way because it is our own dialect with its own rules and constructs. It should be looked at as empowering and you can use it to educate others who make ignorant statements about our manner of speech.

Hell, I thought we knew that. Though maybe this pertains to those of us who participate in regional 'wars' among us? The mocking of language in the south(general), New York, Baltimore, etc.

To your last sentence, in some ways I don't want to educate others about our language. We know (or should know) that our speech does not make us dumb or lesser than. Ideally I'd like some things to remain within our community, things we only understand, slang only we use, etc but I know this is impossible these days.

 

[Deuterion]

I think this is a great point.
I also think we need to emphasize that language, being the primary way we communicate with others, is dynamic and should be curated based on the receiving party or accepted norms.
It is unwise to use language in a way that is static as it can lead to barriers in communication.

What you’re highlighting is the difference between a Grammarian’s view of language vs. a Linguist’s. Linguists look at language as ever evolving and adapting while Grammarians look at language as a set of rules and any deviation is slang.

It becomes a problem when black kids don’t flip the switch when they’re doing their school work. I hate to see it.

Well the problem is that they don’t know there was a switch in the first place. By understanding AAVE as a dialect we can help our children understand what it is that needs to be switched on and off.

 

[315]

Hell, I thought we knew that.

Plenty of us don't know the specifics of why we do the things we do, good or bad

 

[Citi Trends]

He was dating my friend (biracial African/ Indian). I think he felt comfortable.

your friend into...plays?

 

[Deuterion]

Hell, I thought we knew that. Though maybe this pertains to those of us who participate in regional 'wars' among us? The mocking of language in the south(general), New York, Baltimore, etc.

To your last sentence, in some ways I don't want to educate others about our language. We know (or should know) that our speech does not make us dumb or lesser than. Ideally I'd like some things to remain within our community, things we only understand, slang only we use, etc but I know this is impossible these days.

We don’t live in a bubble...we live around people who try to minimize us to ourselves and to others which makes it important for us to craft the narrative. Understanding the components of our culture and then educating others on it only makes us stronger. The overarching narrative right now is that we speaking like a bunch of monkeys...your viewpoint does nothing to change this. Whereas I’m advocating that we understand internally as a culture that we don’t and present the scientifc results to others to change the narrative. We need to approach society as a proud people with our own rich culture that we value and cherish...we need to embrace AAVE like Jamaicans embrace Patois.

 

[get these nets]

I'll be honest. I'm the kinda old school but young bw that wp don't really play with. I shut wp down REAL QUICK. He only felt comfortable bc of my friend. He ain't think he was gon get it, like he was grandfathered in, but he did.

I like that ......grandfather clause didn't work this time.
hahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahah

It wasn't smooth sailing with the whites I've lived with or encountered in my life . I took some L's and had to explain things to people.
I'll drop those stories when those topics come up. I brought up my buddy because his roommate was just flagrant.