After Reading 'Wilt, 1962' And Seeing This Stat Sheet...He's Top 5 All Time

[TheNig]

@Newzz

Im not bypassing a thing. I just don't understand how, if your theory about pace is right, there aren't more average and below-average players with inflated rebounding stats. You're using that as the premise for why Wilt couldn't be as good as players in this era, aren't you?

@TheNig

I'm not dismissing your point or saying I witnessed the games. I'm asking for the evidence that supports your point. You haven't given any. You called me and above the fray and whatever else you could drum up instead of providing supporting facts. I started the thread -- praising a player's accomplishments -- yet somehow I'm the troll?
I asked for an example and you gave Elgin Baylor...who's accepted as one of the greatest players of all time...by the Hall of Fame.

Fact that Bill Russell shat on him and called him a quitter after game 7.

Kareem called him selfish, a loser, and a quitter.

Or maybe he wanted to steal Mel Counts glory after Counts hit a shot to bring them within 2.

 

[drewbreez]

Those are subjective interpretations (yours) of the facts. Kareem didn't call him those things and @dantheman9758 posted an entire essay from Kareem's own website naming Wilt as the greatest player of all time. Not himself, not Michael Jordan but Wilt.

Bill Russell had nothing but the utmost respect for Wilt and read the eulogy at his funeral...in tears. He didn't do that for every player he "shat on" or however you want to put it to fit your opinion scope.

Here's the thing breh. If you had entered the discussion saying, 'this is my opinion on top 5 and here are the reasons these players fit there imo' noooooo one would've trolled or negged or whatever it is you claimin now. Instead, you used logical fallacies to depreciate Wilt's accomplishments -- ones that have either been disproven (players were shorter) or ones you struggle to prove because they aren't facts at all (Kareem's claims, Bill Russell's claims, so-called "inflated stats").

I said 'pups' because I'm a man. Men, in my view, can accept differences of opinion and even take the same group of facts and interpret them differently. Pups/lazy thinkers/children get defensive and attack a person for not agreeing. Worse yet, pups spew misinformation and claim it as truth because they believe it. I didn't have to insult players from the current era or insult you to prove my point. You showed yourself homey and now because your subjective argument has proven to be just that: subjective. I know my opinion isn't fact and I'm cool with that. I don't need to validate it by 'shytting on' yours.

 

[TheNig]

Kareem did say it.

Now that I am done playing, history will remember me as someone who helped teammates to win, while you will be remembered as a crybaby, a loser, and a quitter."

 

[dantheman9758]

Fact that Bill Russell shat on him and called him a quitter after game 7.

Kareem called him selfish, a loser, and a quitter.

Or maybe he wanted to steal Mel Counts glory after Counts hit a shot to bring them within 2.

Kareem and Russell's criticisms at Wilt are from 25-40 years ago - ask them what their opinion of Wilt is now and both don't hesitate to shower Wilt with praise and adulation. I already posted clips of Kareem saying Jordan hasn't come close to doing the things Wilt did plus an essay he personally wrote up about it, and I posted Rick Barry (another person who had said negative things about Wilt in the past) saying he'd pick Wilt #1 all time. These so called Wilt haters among former professionals don't really exist like you think they do. Your digging up 30 and 40 year old quotes to make it seem like those legends hate Wilt... but they don't.

 

[dantheman9758]

Kareem did say it.

And when did he say that? Because he's said these things within the past 3 years:



http://kareemabduljabbar.com/?p=2257

"Dear Scottie,

I have nothing but respect for you my friend as an athlete and knowledgeable basketball mind. But you are way off in your assessment of who is the greatest player of all time and the greatest scorer of all time. Your comments are off because of your limited perspective. You obviously never saw Wilt Chamberlain play who undoubtedly was the greatest scorer this game has ever known. When did MJ ever average 50.4 points per game plus 25.7 rebounds? (Wilt in the 1962 season when blocked shot statistics were not kept). We will never accurately know how many shots Wilt blocked. Oh by the way in 1967 and 68. Wilt was a league leader in assists. Did MJ ever score 100 points in a game? How many times did MJ score more than 60 points in a game? MJ led the league in scoring in consecutive seasons for 10 years but he did this in an NBA that eventually expanded into 30 teams vs. when Wilt played and there were only 8 teams. Every team had the opportunity to amass a solid nucleus. Only the cream of the basketball world got to play then. So MJ has to be appraised in perspective. His incredible athletic ability, charisma and leadership on the court helped to make basketball popular around the world — no question about that. But in terms of greatness MJ has to take a backseat to The Stilt.

In terms of winning, Michael excelled as both an emotional and scoring leader but Bill Russell’s Celtics won 8 consecutive NBA Championships. Bills rebounding average per game is over 22.5 lifetime, MJs best rebounding years was 8 per game (1989). But we will never know exactly how many shots Bill Russell blocked because again, they never kept that statistic while he played. However, if you ask anybody that played against Russell they will just roll their eyes and say he blocked all the shots he wanted to block in the crucial moments of a game.

Bill played on a total of 11 Championship teams and as you very well know, Scottie, the ring is the thing, and everything else is just statistics. So I would advise you to do a little homework before crowning Michael or Lebron with the title of best ever. As dominant as he is, Lebron has yet to win a championship. I must say that it looks like Miami has finally put the team together that will change that circumstance. Its my hope that today’s players get a better perspective on exactly what has been done in this league in the days of yore.

The change in style to the game is not any indication as to how many really talented players there are in the game. So the fact that skilled players come from all over the world does not change the quantity of outstanding talent. Simply put the number of players that could have stopped Wilt Chamberlain in his prime has not increased.

Affectionately, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, NBA’s All-Time Leading Scorer"

So please take your outdated quotes elsewhere, Kareem used to have a very cold attitude towards a lot of things. He's mellowed with age, and now his opinion of Wilt isn't a negative one. He actually said those things about Wilt because Wilt used to give him frequent needle in the 1980's about his rebounding and defense. It probably stung Kareem at the time, so he retaliated. It was nothing more.

 

[Absolut]

of course they praise wilt now. why would they shyt all over a dead guy? i weigh an opinion about someone while they are alive and can respond to it much heavier than what someone says about someone who has died

 

[drewbreez]

Kareem did say it.

So you're cherry picking one Kareem quote from when he was a young man and they were rivals...to dispute what he clearly believes and defends now?

 

[TheNig]

Those are subjective interpretations (yours) of the facts. Kareem didn't call him those things and @dantheman9758 posted an entire essay from Kareem's own website naming Wilt as the greatest player of all time. Not himself, not Michael Jordan but Wilt.

Bill Russell had nothing but the utmost respect for Wilt and read the eulogy at his funeral...in tears. He didn't do that for every player he "shat on" or however you want to put it to fit your opinion scope.

Here's the thing breh. If you had entered the discussion saying, 'this is my opinion on top 5 and here are the reasons these players fit there imo' noooooo one would've trolled or negged or whatever it is you claimin now. Instead, you used logical fallacies to depreciate Wilt's accomplishments -- ones that have either been disproven (players were shorter) or ones you struggle to prove because they aren't facts at all (Kareem's claims, Bill Russell's claims, so-called "inflated stats").

I said 'pups' because I'm a man. Men, in my view, can accept differences of opinion and even take the same group of facts and interpret them differently. Pups/lazy thinkers/children get defensive and attack a person for not agreeing. Worse yet, pups spew misinformation and claim it as truth because they believe it. I didn't have to insult players from the current era or insult you to prove my point. You showed yourself homey and now because your subjective argument has proven to be just that: subjective. I know my opinion isn't fact and I'm cool with that. I don't need to validate it by 'shytting on' yours.

You cant possibly be a man given your definition of it by dismissing the things I've stated as misinformation. I don't have a problem admitting that I'm not a fan of Wilt. I think the real problem is with people who do have him as a favorite and they find it inconceivable for others to not have him as a favorite.

If you think the world of Wilt cool. But don't be so quick to dismiss another point of view that's different than yours.

 

[drewbreez]

You cant possibly be a man given your definition of it by dismissing the things I've stated as misinformation. I don't have a problem admitting that I'm not a fan of Wilt. I think the real problem is with people who do have him as a favorite and they find it inconceivable for others to not have him as a favorite.

If you think the world of Wilt cool. But don't be so quick to dismiss another point of view that's different than yours.

I'm not dismissing your point of view, breh. I'm saying you turned it into some debate about objective facts and evidence when it isn't one. It's ALL opinion. You tried to justify an opinion with false statements about the height of the league and inflated stats. I pointed out the falsehood of that. Your opinion is fine and many share it. Don't try to back it with untruths.

 

[TheNig]

How is that any different than you cherry picking a quote?

 

[TheNig]

I'm not dismissing your point of view, breh. I'm saying you turned it into some debate about objective facts and evidence when it isn't one. It's ALL opinion. You tried to justify an opinion with false statements about the height of the league and inflated stats. I pointed out the falsehood of that. Your opinion is fine and many share it. Don't try to back it with untruths.

You're confusing me with someone else. I have yet to use the different era argument. My argument is the 11 ppg difference between the regular season and playoffs and Game 7 1969.

 

[dantheman9758]

of course they praise wilt now. why would they shyt all over a dead guy? i weigh an opinion about someone while they are alive and can respond to it much heavier than what someone says about someone who has died

Kareem was reacting to needle that Wilt used to give him in books and in interviews and such. Wilt and Kareem talked shyt about each other, they were rivals, and Kareem was chasing some of Wilt's records and Wilt hated that. Russell and Wilt feuded for a short time after Russell retired so there was a rift there for a while too. They're highly competitive people. When Wilt got old he mellowed, he and Bill became good friends again and when Kareem stopped getting needle from Wilt that relationship also mellowed. THAT'S why they appear to have finally warmed up to Wilt. They aren't just trying to be respectful cause he's dead - they actually admired Wilt otherwise Kareem wouldn't be going on a full blown public rant after Scottie Pippen disrespected Wilt by not mentioning him when talking about GOAT players. Seems like your trying to ignore what they've said in recent years simply because it doesn't suit your agenda.

 

[TheNig]

And when did he say that? Because he's said these things within the past 3 years:



http://kareemabduljabbar.com/?p=2257

"Dear Scottie,

I have nothing but respect for you my friend as an athlete and knowledgeable basketball mind. But you are way off in your assessment of who is the greatest player of all time and the greatest scorer of all time. Your comments are off because of your limited perspective. You obviously never saw Wilt Chamberlain play who undoubtedly was the greatest scorer this game has ever known. When did MJ ever average 50.4 points per game plus 25.7 rebounds? (Wilt in the 1962 season when blocked shot statistics were not kept). We will never accurately know how many shots Wilt blocked. Oh by the way in 1967 and 68. Wilt was a league leader in assists. Did MJ ever score 100 points in a game? How many times did MJ score more than 60 points in a game? MJ led the league in scoring in consecutive seasons for 10 years but he did this in an NBA that eventually expanded into 30 teams vs. when Wilt played and there were only 8 teams. Every team had the opportunity to amass a solid nucleus. Only the cream of the basketball world got to play then. So MJ has to be appraised in perspective. His incredible athletic ability, charisma and leadership on the court helped to make basketball popular around the world — no question about that. But in terms of greatness MJ has to take a backseat to The Stilt.

In terms of winning, Michael excelled as both an emotional and scoring leader but Bill Russell’s Celtics won 8 consecutive NBA Championships. Bills rebounding average per game is over 22.5 lifetime, MJs best rebounding years was 8 per game (1989). But we will never know exactly how many shots Bill Russell blocked because again, they never kept that statistic while he played. However, if you ask anybody that played against Russell they will just roll their eyes and say he blocked all the shots he wanted to block in the crucial moments of a game.

Bill played on a total of 11 Championship teams and as you very well know, Scottie, the ring is the thing, and everything else is just statistics. So I would advise you to do a little homework before crowning Michael or Lebron with the title of best ever. As dominant as he is, Lebron has yet to win a championship. I must say that it looks like Miami has finally put the team together that will change that circumstance. Its my hope that today’s players get a better perspective on exactly what has been done in this league in the days of yore.

The change in style to the game is not any indication as to how many really talented players there are in the game. So the fact that skilled players come from all over the world does not change the quantity of outstanding talent. Simply put the number of players that could have stopped Wilt Chamberlain in his prime has not increased.

Affectionately, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, NBA’s All-Time Leading Scorer"

So please take your outdated quotes elsewhere, Kareem used to have a very cold attitude towards a lot of things. He's mellowed with age, and now his opinion of Wilt isn't a negative one. He actually said those things about Wilt because Wilt used to give him frequent needle in the 1980's about his rebounding and defense. It probably stung Kareem at the time, so he retaliated. It was nothing more.

Does it matter that much when it was said. The fact of the matter is that it was said and there's a strong sense of truth. Now if you don't like it, then you just don't like it.

 

[dantheman9758]

..

 

[Absolut]

theres no agenda. id put wilt number 8 on the all time list of guys to lace up the sneakers. hardly a slight to the man. i just take peoples opinions when they are expressed and the other party is alive to respond and refute those opinions over opinions they change up after someone passed