All of humanity has to suffer because Adam and Eve disobeyed God? :wth:

[SunZoo]

problem with that analogy is that the player of the game isn't omniscient.

Assuming they were, the "free will" given to the characters would simply be an illusion. If the entirety of this "simulation" is predetermined, how can you, the character have free will?

The bold is something that I had pointed up originally but decided against it, I wanted to wait until someone actually asked the question so I could break that down. I had tacked on to the end of that post that within the analogy...you should be careful to note the difference between the game itself and the player. The player isn't omniscient, the player is NOT god, though they are PLAYING the role of god in accordance to the parameters of the source code. Some of the characters described as god(s) in Christian and other mythology were PLAYERS...not 'actual god', as in the force itself but entities that had reached a level of knowledge that afforded them the ability to do things that seemed to go beyond human comprehension.

If the SIMS characters were conscious beings and could gain insight to their creation process, they would probably call us god(s), wouldn't they? And these SIMS can certainly free-roam within the parameters of the game but the game itself contains all of the data, therefore it 'knows' every choice that is or isn't available. ..

Free will is often seen as being in opposition of fate...again that's the faulty, polarized thinking of the intellect that disconnects the two concepts when they really work hand in hand. Being able to have a vast amount of choices and outcomes within a game doesn't negate the code or the pre-determined stages, destinations or events. You can say well "that makes free will an illusion" and it does, life in general is a grand illusion.

 

[Afrodroid]

The only problem with your analogy (and I like this conversation so I am going to remain respectful of you the person...only have an issue with the analogy )

Is this:

There is a difference between knowing what "can" happen and knowing what "will" happen.

Your cliff analogy is one I've heard before. God can warn you, but it's on you to decide what you are going to do. BUT (and this is big) if God is "All knowing" then he already knows what you are going to do.

It can't be both ways.

Either God is all knowing...and he knows already whether or not I am going to drive off the cliff...henceforth taking away my free will (because he already knows what will happen because it is predetermined)

OR I have "free will" I have the choice to drive off the cliff or not drive off the cliff, and therefore God is NOT all knowing because he does not know what I am going to do.


I don't know which it is. I will never claim to know. But it can't be both.

One thing i learned long ago is not questioning the power and God's will, things are that way. Believe Him or not, ask why... doesn't changes our fate on this earth.

However, for those who believe: Heb.11-1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

One of the foundations of faith is experience but it may be relative, because my experience may be different from yours, and sometimes what makes sense to me may not make sense to you. But the word and purpose of God are one.

Every religion is an exercise of faith, not material proof. It's a matter of believing or just skip.

 

[semicko82]

It's simple cause and affect, OP. Because one man transgressed, he welcomed sin into this world. Now everyone has to deal with Satan and his angels. Why are you mad at GOD, sir? If you have a question about scripture, why not just pray about it? I mean, it's all make-believe, like Santa Claus, right? And let's not act like that same GOD didn't give you a pardon for your sins through Jesus Christ. That "evil, unjust, racist tyrant" went through all that suffering so you can be with Him. All you have to do is accept the transaction through faith, but you'd rather rage because you don't understand His ways. Just ask Him.

 

[AllHolosEve]

First off; stop being triggered and acting hemotional.

Secondly, “Let us make man in our image is a type of Hebrew grammar process that is called The 'Law of Majestic Plurality' or the 'Rule of Plural Majesty'.
There are many instances in the Bible where this Law or Rule can be found.

Lastly, my point still stands. Humans are spiritual beings first before they are enclosed in flesh.

Don’t be so quick to act cocky and you might learn something.

Really breh, you thinking too hard & the question was simple... I believe we're spiritual, doesn't change anything...

 

[WetinBeDat]

The bold is something that I had pointed up originally but decided against it, I wanted to wait until someone actually asked the question so I could break that down. I had tacked on to the end of that post that within the analogy...you should be careful to note the difference between the game itself and the player. The player isn't omniscient, the player is NOT god, though they are PLAYING the role of god in accordance to the parameters of the source code. Some of the characters described as god(s) in Christian and other mythology were PLAYERS...not 'actual god', as in the force itself but entities that had reached a level of knowledge that afforded them the ability to do things that seemed to go beyond human comprehension.

Again, in your analogy, neither the player, developer or game is omniscient. you can't "play god" without omniscience.

And these SIMS can certainly free-roam within the parameters of the game

they aren't "free-roaming" of their own volition

You can say well "that makes free will an illusion" and it does

If you agree it's an illusion, then you agree it can't be real.

 

[SunZoo]

Again, in your analogy, neither the player, developer or game is omniscient. you can't "play god" without omniscience.

If the game contains all of the data for all of the rules, boundaries, possible actions/reactions..it is indeed "all knowing" in the sense that it contains all that is. But again, the personification of god, is where people get hung up. Think more along the lines of the Force of the Star Wars mythology rather than a deity.

You play god according to what you think god is, the engineer of life. I would say to most people, playing around with creating/altering life forms, whether be done in a computer game or via genetic engineering, would be akin to 'playing god'.

they aren't "free-roaming" of their own volition

Yes they do, at least when I played. You can micro manage the comings and goings of each character you create but that gets tedious just like it would for the actual 'god'. What you certainly can do is customize these imaginary people from how they look, what they end up doing for a living or take up for hobbies...and then you can set it on auto-pilot and, step back and observe your creations express themselves through the attributes that you sent them into the simulation with.

I would say that's a good example of how free will applies to the human condition. The SIMS don't pick their impulses , the free will comes into play in regard to how they respond to them.

If you agree it's an illusion, then you agree it can't be real.

More either/or reasoning.

A simulation by it's very nature it's not 'real' homeboy.... If we are indeed in a simulation, the only thing that is real about it is the EXPERIENCE of it. You can experience the idea of free will within the parameters of the game, THAT is a real experience...but you can't suddenly take off flying like superman, this level of the game isn't set for that.

 

[Lamar Givens]

Think that if someone knows the end that’s there is still “free will” brehs.

I know the end of Scarface. It plays out the same way every time. There is no free will.

If God knows how it all ends then you can’t alter that. Hence no free will

So in other words you don’t understand both concepts. Gotcha

 

[Charlie Hustle]

When I see Adam, i'm going to run the fade

 

[Anti-Anime]

Honestly stopped pondering about abrahamic religions and religion in general. Just a waste of time

 

[Yo Mama]

As long as people don't understand what free will means these kinds of questioning will last for eternity...

We inherit sin because man(the human race) chose to disobey God. Therefore, our inheritance as sinners is the death that entered the world through it.

I'm sure that if God had made mankind as mere puppets mfs would still complain: "Bu bu but why God didn't give me choices?"

No one would complain coz they wouldnt have the cspacity or desire to do so.

 

[WetinBeDat]

If the game contains all of the data for all of the rules, boundaries, possible actions/reactions..it is indeed "all knowing" in the sense that it contains all that is. But again, the personification of god, is where people get hung up. Think more along the lines of the Force of the Star Wars mythology rather than a deity.

You play god according to what you think god is, the engineer of life. I would say to most people, playing around with creating/altering life forms, whether be done in a computer game or via genetic engineering, would be akin to 'playing god'.

you play god according to what it is, not what you think it is. And god, from a theistic perspective must be omniscient.

Yes they do, at least when I played. You can micro manage the comings and goings of each character you create but that gets tedious just like it. What you certainly can do is customize these imaginary people from how they look, what they end up doing for a living or take up for hobbies...and then you can set it on auto-pilot and, step back and observe your creations express themselves through the attributes that you sent them into the simulation with.

I would say that's a good example of how free will applies to the human condition.

They are programmed. Nothing they do is of their own volition. this is absolutely in no way comparable to free will. stop it.

A simulation by it's very nature it's not 'real' homeboy.... If we are indeed in a simulation, the only thing that is real about it is the EXPERIENCE of it. You can experience the idea of free will within the parameters of the game, THAT is a real experience..

the omniscient creator of your simulation predetermined every "experience" of free will

 

[IVS]

Lets say you killed someone in a bank robbery, you get life in prison. The children u had dont have a father figure and because you were the primary bread winner they end up in the street looking for one. Because they end up in the street they get criminal records and have a harder time finding a job and can barely support their kids. Those kids go to bad schools because the neighborhoods they grow up in are bad. They end up working menial jobs and because they used sex as an opiate and have children young.....etc.

All this stemmed from u being a dumbass and robbing a bank and killing someone when u knew it was all wrong.

Eating the fruit and then lying about it to God is like that. The tree of life has to be there because without it there is no ability to choose between good and evil.

You sir are a blithering idiot But you are not alone...the rest of the idiot brigade is right there with you.

 

[IVS]

And this is why the day of Jehovah will happen people are really lost .We are suffering because of Adam and Eve yes true but is bigger than that Satan a angel who left heaven and was low key jealous of humans desired to be in God position and rule mankind.eve fell for the bait as well as Adam now time has to go by to see what Satan said is true that man can rule them selves be independent of God.Angels who saw the rebellion from the beginning are watching to see how this all will play out but Satan lost this world is crazy violent and I'm moral .Humans as well as rebel angels will be annihalated .as this mess we are going thru will be a lesson for eternity to never challenge God for his ruling ability.I have no doubt judgement day is near I can't wait.

Simply put: you are an adult retard...and thats scary because there's nothing wrong with your brain, but there's something very wrong with the type of nonsense you have convincved yourself to believe.

"We" are suffering because we are ignorant as fux. And all that gobbledygook you just posted is proof of that.

Talking about Satan, but its the God of the so called Bible and his messengers (angels) who are responsible for confusing the languages and scattering peoples about.

 

[moniemane]

Simply put: you are an adult retard...and thats scary because there's nothing wrong with your brain, but there's something very wrong with the type of nonsense you have convincved yourself to believe.

"We" are suffering because we are ignorant as fux. And all that gobbledygook you just posted is proof of that.

Talking about Satan, but its the God of the so called Bible and his messengers (angels) who are responsible for confusing the languages and scattering peoples about.

Call it what you want 9million jw are warning blind people like yourself at Armageddon you have no excuse...and yes I'm very intelligent I go by scripture you can go with any foolishness out here you want to....you have been warned
my man.

 

[SunZoo]

you play god according to what it is, not what you think it is.

"Playing ___" means doing as if. If you are 'creating' or altering life, you are playing god, doing what people deem to be the responsibility of god, of nature.

And god, from a theistic perspective must be omniscient.

God from a theistic perspective is inaccurate. Yet this is the only way most people know how to relate to that concept, especially atheists.

They are programmed. Nothing they do is of their own volition. this is absolutely in no way comparable to free will. stop it.

Yes, programmed to experience free will within the game. Do you create your impulses or do you react to them?

the omniscient creator of your simulation predetermined every "experience" of free will

Free will is a spiritual concept...if you can't get right on square one about what god is, you can't really grasp what is meant by free will, or 'karma' which people love to erroneously rant and rave about.