America's Great Divide (Frontline PBS)

[gangreen]

I just finished and I’m kinda feeling the opposite of this. The appeal of a populist/progressive left would mean having a rational discussion with the populist right, which I no longer think is possible. While I think a moderate candidate could pull in establishment/moderate republican voters. But overall, I don’t see many republicans moving over regardless

I dont trust those republican voters in state wide elections and especially when Trump is on the ballot. 2016 is all the proof u need and that documentary just reminded me of those Rally sizes and the wall to wall media coverage of him.

I think you put a moderate in there against him, you headed towards one of those close elections by the electoral college because I'm certain he is not winning Pennsylvania and Michigan again but he can still win without them.

U need populist energy to beat him. U fight fire with fire. Trump is not a normal opponent, conventional methods dont work in my opinion.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

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U need populist energy to beat him. U fight fire with fire. Trump is not a normal opponent, conventional methods dont work in my opinion.

i simply dont think you can sell left populism to his populist base (nor any left ideas). Both sides are fed up with corporatism and establishment Washington, but when you start talking an equitable society for all - all including different races sexual orientations, etc - then tie in to the bigger platform that deals with immigration and guns...you lose them. That’s kinda why I feel like if you’re going to make a play for GOP voters you go for moderates/the people who have politics like Kasich or Steve Schmidt.

But again, I have zero faith in the flipping Republican voters strategy, you go for turnout amongst dems and appeal to independents. If some republicans deflect, great, if not, thats fine, handle your biz where it counts.

 

[Oville]

i simply dont think you can sell left populism to his populist base (nor any left ideas). Both sides are fed up with corporatism and establishment Washington, but when you start talking an equitable society for all - all including different races sexual orientations, etc - then tie in to the bigger platform that deals with immigration and guns...you lose them. That’s kinda why I feel like if you’re going to make a play for GOP voters you go for moderates/the people who have politics like Kasich or Steve Schmidt.

But again, I have zero faith in the flipping Republican voters strategy, you go for turnout amongst dems and appeal to independents. If some republicans deflect, great, if not, thats fine, handle your biz where it counts.

He lost the popular vote by 3 million and there were people who voted for both obama and bernie and not for Hilary. Being that she lost many of the "blue wall" states by slim margins its possible that appealing to voters upset with globalization to come aboard. Plus, no other candidate is going to inspire the young electorate like Bernie is and no campaign has reached out, identified, and pledged more first-time voters than Bernie has which can also make the difference. And a lot of Trump's base are left wing on economic issues. Remember he pledged not to cut entitlement, programs, not engage in stupid wars, and fight trade policies that shipped jobs overseas. Why not support the candidate that can match him on that message and has the best record of consistency on those issues.

 

[bzb]

The divisions are too deep for a centrist or unifier to lead the ticket. I dont think Obama even could've won in this climate. Those Trump voters are too entrenched.

barack would beat chump's azz back then and till this day!

if we're keeping it 100 hillary would be potus right now if it weren't for comey or if the elections didn't get hacked.

repubs haven't won a fair presidential election since 92.

 

[Macallik86]

Just finished it. There wasn't anything new in it persay but there was a lot of things that I had forgotten given the newscycle nowadays.

What frustrates me is that they show how Trump came to power based on the media frenzy about birtherism and the media clamoring to get airtime with him, and then they get POVs from widely discredited people known for spreading misinformation or under prosecution from the FBI (Roger Stone, Omarosa, Alex Marlow, Kelly-Anne Conway, Sean Spicer and Sam Nunberg)

I begrudgingly understand why Bannon/Luntz have to be there given they were either in the room or the strategic arm of the GOP, but there are a lot of useless people getting shine just for the sake of being recognizable. If you know that people are corrupt, you get to the point where you stop booking them. If it turns out the majority of the people in Trump's administration are corrupt, then tough shyt, you have to do unbiased documentaries without them. They are being normalized to this day by having their narratives unchallenged

 

[gangreen]

i simply dont think you can sell left populism to his populist base (nor any left ideas). Both sides are fed up with corporatism and establishment Washington, but when you start talking an equitable society for all - all including different races sexual orientations, etc - then tie in to the bigger platform that deals with immigration and guns...you lose them. That’s kinda why I feel like if you’re going to make a play for GOP voters you go for moderates/the people who have politics like Kasich or Steve Schmidt.

But again, I have zero faith in the flipping Republican voters strategy, you go for turnout amongst dems and appeal to independents. If some republicans deflect, great, if not, thats fine, handle your biz where it counts.

U dont need his base, they are like 35 percent of his 50 percent support. Those are entrenched alt right and new school republican Trump converts and independents.

I dont even trust those never Trumper republicans to do the right thing and vote for a Moderate Democrat. I think they would rather not vote at all cause they aren't inspired to vote. Shyt like that does nothing to help the democratic nominee

U need those Obama to Trump voters and the democrats and progressives that stayed home in 2016 with a sprinkle of some independents along with the progressive base for some new energy.

There is also the possibility of the young people vote, which would be checkmate November 2020. U need energy and freshness for that tho.

Trump won those swing states by razor thin margins and I feel confident to say he will not win Pennsylvania and Michigan again no matter who the nominee.

But I gotta feeling if u gonna roll out Biden or Mayor Pete or Klobuchar as the nominee, 2016 is gonna repeat with a closer margin. those names are not inspiring agents.

The Trump presidency has been an almost complete disaster and this is the time to strike with the progressive agenda. Trump made alot of promises that he didnt deliver on and a progressive is the alternative to hold him accountable and not a moderate.

 

[gangreen]

barack would beat chump's azz back then and till this day!

if we're keeping it 100 hillary would be potus right now if it weren't for comey or if the elections didn't get hacked.

repubs haven't won a fair presidential election since 92.

U mean 88 right and Bush legit beat Kerry in 2004 with no hanging chad and vote stopping Florida fukkery.

Maybe Obama could have pulled it off in 2016 as a more partisan incumbent. 2012 confirmed that for me. But 2008 Obama as a moderate with that change, hope and unity shyt would not have easily won in 2016 like he did in 08 against McCain.

I'm not sure about Hillary, Hillary was qualified but a terrible politician. The Russians and Comey played a factor but Hillary would have still won a close election to Donald Trump regardless of their interference . Trump has got to be the most unqualified major party nominee in history with his credentials mixed with his temperament and history. Hillary had demonized for two decades by the Repubs and way too much went against her in 2016.

That documentary and looking back on it just confirmed that for me and lookin back on it, the slow build up of fake news by the right and right wing media, right wing hysterics with some tinges of sexism and racism, Trump saying whatever and never being held accountable to winning the nomination and eventually the presidency, lookin back at the size of those Rallies he was holding and MSNBC and CNN giving Trump so much airtime and legitimizing him for ratings.

Hillary had a slim shot before then but most of us were so blind to it and then Comey and The Russian interference exacerbated it to her having no shot at all.

 

[JT-Money]

The individual interviews were better than the documentary. They left out a most of the best parts.

Obama got terrible advice from his party and cabinet every turn. He let Pelosi convince him to push the ACA right after the bailouts. He went to law school at the same time as Scaramucci? He actually believed Republicans would vote for the ACA and bailouts to give him political cover.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

U need those Obama to Trump voters and the democrats and progressives that stayed home in 2016 with a sprinkle of some independents along with the progressive base for some new energy.

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that's turnout...the obama to trump folks are part of his base to me and a contingent i don't trust that any dem is pulling back over in any meaningful #'s. they heeded the dog whistle to vote white, something bernie likes to overlook and blame on economic anxiety. no, they were also tired of seeing where america was heading - "others" being firmly part of the convo, a black pres followed by female dem nominee. i guess too many experiences in my life have taught me that when people start seeing/caring about race, it's a wrap. dems need to focus on turnout and real independents (some of whom may be obama-trump)

 

[gangreen]

that's turnout...the obama to trump folks are part of his base to me and a contingent i don't trust that any dem is pulling back over in any meaningful #'s. they heeded the dog whistle to vote white, something bernie likes to overlook and blame on economic anxiety. no, they were also tired of seeing where america was heading - "others" being firmly part of the convo, a black pres followed by female dem nominee. i guess too many experiences in my life have taught me that when people start seeing/caring about race, it's a wrap. dems need to focus on turnout and real independents (some of whom may be obama-trump)

I gotta think those Obama to Trump voters were disillusioned by their stagnant economic situation and wanted a change to shake things up but they are probably horrified by the Trump Presidency at this point.

Look at all the fukkery, Muslim travel ban, Good people on both sides during a neo nazi protest, kids in cages, Stormy Daniels, leaks and firings in his administration, the embarrassing display at Helsinski in front of Putin, his trade war with China, his tax break for the one percent and corporations and the Ukraine scandal and Impeachment. Just to name a few.

I think the 2018 mid terms were an early indicator of the Obama to Trump voters rejecting Trumpism. The House was taken back based on alot of suburban districts that went for Trump in 2016. They were like u gotta put a check on this crazy guy .

I think it's still a change year in 2020, u can still win with a moderate but a Progressive and populist campaign could turn it into a landslide and would be the final nail in the coffin and the final repudiation of Trumpism.

Democrats need new energy and a progressive nominee to get the progressives out to vote this time and propel a landslide. I know the moderates and independents will turn out but I dont think the Progressives will turn out if Biden or Buttigieg are the nominees.

And I'm not trying to see a democrat win a close election finally for this fool to claim the shyt is rigged and not leave.

Remember New York State and the Southern District of New York are waiting to indict his azz for the Stormy Daniels campaign finance violation and the New York Attorney is on his azz with the investigations into his business dealings. This is life and death for him. He not going to go easy.

 

[CASHAPP]

It just mindblowing how megyn kelly still gushes over trump's presence even though he ruined her career had her ass threatened and she still gushes and smiles talking about him in the interview... this bytch is so racist it's disgusting..

Because she slept with him before he ran for President. She got turned on despite everything he said about her cause she likes to be treated that way.

I gotta think those Obama to Trump voters were disillusioned by their stagnant economic situation and wanted a change to shake things up but they are probably horrified by the Trump Presidency at this point.

Look at all the fukkery, Muslim travel ban, Good people on both sides during a neo nazi protest, kids in cages, Stormy Daniels, leaks and firings in his administration, the embarrassing display at Helsinski in front of Putin, his trade war with China, his tax break for the one percent and corporations and the Ukraine scandal and Impeachment. Just to name a few.

I think the 2018 mid terms were an early indicator of the Obama to Trump voters rejecting Trumpism. The House was taken back based on alot of suburban districts that went for Trump in 2016. They were like u gotta put a check on this crazy guy .

I think it's still a change year in 2020, u can still win with a moderate but a Progressive and populist campaign could turn it into a landslide and would be the final nail in the coffin and the final repudiation of Trumpism.

Democrats need new energy and a progressive nominee to get the progressives out to vote this time and propel a landslide. I know the moderates and independents will turn out but I dont think the Progressives will turn out if Biden or Buttigieg are the nominees.

And I'm not trying to see a democrat win a close election finally for this fool to claim the shyt is rigged and not leave.

Remember New York State and the Southern District of New York are waiting to indict his azz for the Stormy Daniels campaign finance violation and the New York Attorney is on his azz with the investigations into his business dealings. This is life and death for him. He not going to go easy.

Was Obama suffering such a huge defeat in the 2010 midterms an indicator for what happened in the General in 2012?

No right? So why do people keep acting as if the midterms last year indicates how Trump will do?

 

[Robbie3000]

Will check it out.

 

[gangreen]

Was Obama suffering such a huge defeat in the 2010 midterms an indicator for what happened in the General in 2012?

No right? So why do people keep acting as if the midterms last year indicates how Trump will do?

1. Trump's Approval ratings now compared to Obama in 2012. He also got impeached for something we all know he did.

2. The Margin that Obama won the electoral college in 2008 showed that people were comfortable with him as commander in chief in 2012 to vote for him again. Trump won Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin by razor thin margins already (States that got him into the white house) And he lost the popular vote. This shows that people were willing to give him a try but didnt trust him like they did for Obama in 2008.

3. Obama got 365 electoral votes in 2008, Obama got 325 electoral votes in 2012. Trump got 304 electoral votes in 2016.

4. Obama didnt have a mass exodus of urban and big city voters in 2010. They just didnt turn out and stayed home in 2010 for him. Suburban voters especially women actively voted for Democrats some of which voted for Trump in 16. Along with rural voters, suburban voters propelled Trump to the White house. Romney in 2012 wasnt bleeding suburban voters like I expect Trump to in 2020 and he still got mollywhopped by Obama in 2012.

5. In 2018, Of the 41 congressional districts that Democrats turned from red to blue, 38 were suburban. 2020 is gonna be filled with them in a presidential election year.

If Trump wins in 2020, its gonna be way closer than it was in 2016. I'm talking 2000 and 2004 election close.

The Obama factors in 2012 are different from Trump in 2020.

Those 2018 mid terms especially in the suburbs were very telling about what's going to happen in 2020.

 

[ORDER_66]

Because she slept with him before he ran for President. She got turned on despite everything he said about her cause she likes to be treated that way

Wait a minute she slept with Trump too?! I thought she only slept with Roger ailes to get her gig at Fox news... this woman is a RACIST WHORE....

 

[Dave7]

Gonna have to watch this after work today