Another: Cop punches 12 year old kid while other cops hold him down

[MeachTheMonster]

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/press/pbtss11rpa11pr.cfm
​

Rough math: Of approximately 63 million stops, a little over 8 million were 'Black' (based on approximate 'Black' population). 80,000 incidents like your scenario would equal 1% of those 8 million stops.

How many incidents have there been this year? 20? 30? 100?

Your argument is an outlier.

/discussion
​

First off your statistics start by looking at the entire population. No doubt they are "outliers" when anylyzed from that angle. Black people themselves are "outliers" in this country, so any issue that affects us can be viewed as an "outlier". The argument is that these types of encounters are commonplace for a small part of the population. Which is what people are fighting against.

Second those "statistics" rely on police to report themselves. If there's anything we've learned is that no matter the circumstances police will NEVER incriminate themselves.

http://sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/rd_ICCPR Race and Justice Shadow Report.pdf

he United States criminal justice system is the largest in the world. At yearend 2011, approximately 7 million individuals were under some form of correctional control in the United States, including 2.2 million incarcerated in federal, state, or local prisons and jails.1 The U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world, dwarfing the rate of nearly every other nation.2

Such broad statistics mask the racial disparity that pervades the U.S. criminal justice system. Racial minorities are more likely than white Americans to be arrested; once arrested, they are more likely to be convicted; and once convicted, they are more likely to face stiff sentences. African-American males are six times more likely to be incarcerated than white males and 2.5 times more likely than Hispanic males.3 If current trends continue, one of every three black American males born today can expect to go to prison in his lifetime, as can one of every six Latino males—compared to one of every seventeen white males.

http://filmingcops.com/cops-have-killed-over-5000-americans-since-911/

Since 9/11, about 5,000 Americans have been killed by U.S. police officers, which is almost equivalent to the number of U.S. soldiers who have been killed in the line of duty in Iraq.
In fact, you are 8 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than by a terrorist.

Yet the police aren't viewed as terrorists. We send billions of dollars to fight over there, but citizens being killed at home are just "outliers" and aren't even worthy of a proper dialog.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2014/08/armed-police


And all of this is in the face of civilian crime and violence being at an all time low.

It is very clear that there is both a violence and profiling problem with American police officers. Violent/aggressive encounters and unjust/unequal arrest, convictions, and sentencing is a common part of life for some Americans. It's been proven time and time again.

 

[Serious]

Wait, so which is it? These things DON'T happen, or they sometimes do, but they're outliers.

idk about, but one mishap of injustice is enough me.

Keep thinking simply complying is all gravy while cops get off from shyt like this
m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5824684

 

[Brown_Pride]

The fact that we lose as many people to police as we do in war is disturbing. I'm by no means saying all those people shot and killed were innocent people getting fuked over by cops but in general, regardless of right or wrong or necessity the shyt is wrong and speaks to both the brutality of cops AND the brutality of our culture.

Cop shootings aside
http://www.humanosphere.org/science...eaths-comparing-the-u-s-to-rest-of-the-world/

Essentially we behave like a South American country in the throngs of a booming drug trade, systemic poverty, systemic racism...shyt that actually sounds correct then...

Maybe the argument should be NOT that we have the most gun deaths for a civilized country but instead that we're on the low end of the war torn, drug addled countries...?

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

First off your statistics start by looking at the entire population.

False. The surveys are based on police encounters.....
​

These finding are based on the Police-Public Contact Survey (PPCS), a supplement to the National Crime Victimization Survey, which asked a nationally representative sample of U.S. residents age 16 or older about experiences with police during the prior 12 months.

The NCVS is the largest data collection on criminal victimization independent of crimes reported by law enforcement agencies to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting Program (UCR)—the nation’s other key measure of the extent and nature of crime in the United States. During 2013, about 90,630 households and 160,040 persons age 12 or older were interviewed for the NCVS. Since the NCVS interviews victims of crime, homicide is not included in these nonfatal victimization estimates.

​

Black people themselves are "outliers" in this country

False. Outliers are 'extreme' observations that are distant from others. Since minorities are more likely to encounter the police, your criticism is self-refuting.​

Second those "statistics" rely on police to report themselves.

False yet again....​

The Bureau of Justice Statistics’ (BJS) Corrections Unit maintains over 30 data collections. Most are annual collections of administrative data from correctional administrators, ranging from basic population counts and offender demographic characteristics to facility capacity, programs, staff, and resources. These data collections include—

• National Prisoner Statistics (NPS)Program - administrative data on state and federal prisoners, collected twice a year
• Annual Survey of Jails (ASJ) - administrative data on jail populations
• Annual Probation Survey and Annual Parole Survey - administrative data on offenders under community supervision
• National Corrections Reporting Program (NCRP) - administrative data on admissions to and releases from state prisons, collected annually from participating state jurisdictions
• Census of Jails and Census of State and Federal Adult Correctional Facilities - administrative data on facilities and staff, collected periodically.

The NPS also collects counts on specific inmate populations from the Department of Defense (DoD) and U.S. territories. Some limited information on the number of juveniles held in adult facilities is also collected in theNPS and ASJ. Jails in Indian Country is a separate collection for data on counts and characteristics of persons held in tribal jails. BJS also tracks administrative data on other topics, such as HIV in correctional facilities;capital punishment statutes, populations, and executions.

In addition to collecting administrative data, BJS maintains a number of recurring national surveys of prison inmates, jail inmates, probationers, and parolees. These surveys are typically conducted every 5 to 7 years and use a nationally representative sample of offenders. The surveys, such as the Survey of Inmates in State and Federal Correctional Facilities and the Survey of Inmates in Local Jails, are broad in scope and collect a wide range of data on the personal and criminal histories of criminal offenders. Topics cover childhood experiences, family structure, educational background, prior criminal activity, substance abuse experiences, mental and physical health problems, and conditions of current confinement. Estimates derived from these surveys are national and, with rare exceptions, are not available at the state or facility level.

Your argument is an outlier.

​

 

[MeachTheMonster]

False. The surveys are based on police encounters and those currently in the DoJ system, not the ENTIRE population of the country.​

​

The surveys are based on ALL people in the system. Meaning most people surveyed are white, meaning the majority of the people surveyed are not the ones who would see injustice.

​

False. Outliers are 'extreme' observations that are distant from others.

Which black people are in America.

False yet again....

No. Police make the arrests, which have proven to be influenced by race. Police report the crimes. And data on police shooting is totally optional, meaning they report the ones they want to.

The information is created, collected and gathered by police actions

​

Your argument is an outlier.

Your argument lost already. With each post you cherry pick some semantics to argue over and ignore the rest. That's a sign of weakness and proof you don't even believe your own bullshyt.

Try this one out

Reuters interviewed 25 African American male officers on the NYPD, 15 of whom are retired and 10 of whom are still serving. All but one said that, when off duty and out of uniform, they had been victims of racial profiling, which refers to using race or ethnicity as grounds for suspecting someone of having committed a crime.

The officers said this included being pulled over for no reason, having their heads slammed against their cars, getting guns brandished in their faces, being thrown into prison vans and experiencing stop and frisks while shopping. The majority of the officers said they had been pulled over multiple times while driving. Five had had guns pulled on them.

Even off duty police being profiled, threatened, and assaulted.

You gonna tell me those are just outliers who didn't know how to respectfully be arrested too?

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

The surveys are based on ALL people in the system. Meaning most people surveyed are white, meaning the majority of the people surveyed are not the ones who would see injustice.

And, as reported earlier.....
​

blacks were less likely than whites and Hispanics to believe the police behaved properly during the encounter.

....so, there should be MORE reported incidents from us than there are.
​

Which black people are in America.

False.
​

No. Police make the arrests, which have proven to be influenced by race. Police report the crimes. And data on police shooting is totally optional, meaning they report the ones they want to.

The information is created, collected and gathered by police actions

False. Whenever an officer discharges his weapon, he HAS to make a report and his ammunition must be accounted for at the armory. There is no getting around that procedure. Also.....​

The NCVS is the largest data collection on criminal victimization independent of crimes reported by law enforcement agencies to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting Program (UCR)—the nation’s other key measure of the extent and nature of crime in the United States. During 2013, about 90,630 households and 160,040 persons age 12 or older were interviewed for the NCVS. Since the NCVS interviews victims of crime, homicide is not included in these nonfatal victimization estimates.

​

With each post you cherry pick some semantics to argue over and ignore the rest.

Says the guy saying that 'Black' people are 'outliers'..........

'Shotgun' arguments don't work on me.

​

You gonna tell me those are just outliers

Yup since those are observations/experiences FAR different than the 'norm' for 'Black' people which is the definition of the term.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/outlier

​

 

[MeachTheMonster]

And, as reported earlier.....
​

....so, there should be MORE reported incidents from us than there are.​

Again black people are a minority. You can't survey all races and then claim an experience for black people is an "outlier". Due to our minority status all of our experiences are "outliers" when compared to those of the rest of the country.

What you'd need is a survey that specifically and only asked black people about their experiences.

​

​

False. Whenever an officer discharges his weapon, he HAS to make a report and his ammunition must be accounted for at the armory. There is no getting around that procedure. Also.....

It does not have to be reported to the FBI or any other record keeping organization. Meaning the statistics on police brutality, shootings in particular are skewed by the fact that they all are not reported.

​

[QuotewSays the guy saying that 'Black' people are 'outliers'..........

'Shotgun' arguments don't work on me.​

[/quote]
There is no shotgun argument. An outlier is "a person or thing situated away or detached from the main system"

That describes black people in America perfectly. But I'm sure you'll just challenge the definition and argue some more semantics.

​

Yup since those are observations/experiences FAR different than the 'norm' for 'Black' people which is the definition of the term.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/outlier

​

No they aren't far different from the norm. Again we have a huge amount of evidence to support the fact that these are normal encounters for black Americans. You've done nothing but deny the truth with absolutely no proof to back up your nonsense.

24 out of 25 people in that survey told you they've been unfairly profiled, arrested, and assaulted. Yet somehow you can argue that the experience is uncommon. That's the height of willful ignronce, or just trolling at this point

 

[MeachTheMonster]

http://www.researchgate.net/publica..._A_Survey_of_African_American_Police_Officers

A huge study on the issue. Not worth pointing out separate experts. Read if you'd like to stop being ignorant.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Again black people are a minority. You can't survey all races and then claim an experience for black people is an "outlier".

Being a minority =/= outlier. An observation that deviates significantly from the 'norm' is. The vast majority of 'Black' people who encounter the police don't get victimized by them. Victimization is the outlier.

​

It does not have to be reported to the FBI or any other record keeping organization. Meaning the statistics on police brutality, shootings in particular are skewed by the fact that they all are not reported.

As stated earlier, this is false. They HAVE to report weapon discharges. The stats on police brutality are dependent on victims actually reporting it when it occurs.​

​

An outlier is "a person or thing situated away or detached from the main system"

LOL
​

No they aren't far different from the norm. Again we have a huge amount of evidence to support the fact that these are normal encounters for black Americans.

The vast majority of 'Black' people who encounter the police don't get victimized by them. Victimization is the outlier.

Simply believing you've been victimized isn't sufficient evidence you have been.
​

 

[MeachTheMonster]

http://2012sppconference.blogs.rice.edu/files/2012/02/Haider-Markel-et-al-SPPC-2012.pdf


More here.

I guess black folks are just making this stuff up though

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

http://2012sppconference.blogs.rice.edu/files/2012/02/Haider-Markel-et-al-SPPC-2012.pdf


More here.

I guess black folks are just making this stuff up though

I guess you didn't really read what you posted, either, since it verifies what I've been stating.

The vast majority of 'Black' people who encounter the police don't get victimized by them. Victimization is the outlier.

​

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Being a minority =/= outlier. An observation that deviates significantly from the 'norm' is.​

​

The "norm" is white people. Black people deviate significantly from the "norm" in both appearance and experiences.

The vast majority of 'Black' people who encounter the police don't get victimized by them. Victimization is the outlier.

Being stopped, searched and detained unjustly is "victimization" .You don't have to be physically injured to be a victim. I've done nothing wrong, you hold me against my will, I am a victim.

I'm sure we'll now just argue over what "victimization" now

​

As stated earlier, this is false. They HAVE to report weapon discharges. The stats on police brutality are dependent on victims actually reporting it when it occurs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ow-many-police-shootings-a-year-no-one-knows/

Officials with the Justice Department keep no comprehensive database or record of police shootings, instead allowing the nation’s more than 17,000 law enforcement agencies to self-report officer-involved shootings as part of the FBI’s annual data on “justifiable homicides” by law enforcement.

That number – which only includes self-reported information from about 750 law enforcement agencies – hovers around 400 “justifiable homicides” by police officers each year. The DOJ’s Bureau of Justice Statistics also tracks “arrest-related deaths.” But the department stopped releasing those numbers after 2009, because, like the FBI data, they were widely regarded as unreliable.

LOL

You laughing at definitions now, cause they aren't the one you cherry picked? Google outlier definition and post your results.

​

The vast majority of 'Black' people who encounter the police don't get victimized by them. Victimization is the outlier.

The vast majority of black people stopped and detained by police have done nothing wrong. Therefore they are victims.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

I guess you didn't really read what you posted, either, since it verifies what I've been stating.





​

You mean here

Where it shows black people overwhelmingly responding that they've been unfairly stopped, treated poorly, and punished worse.


They just making that up too?

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

The "norm" is white people. Black people deviate significantly from the "norm" in both appearance and experiences.

False. The 'norm' is not being stopped by the police, or, when stopped, you are given a warning/ticket and go on your way.

​

Being stopped, searched and detained unjustly is "victimization" .

You'd have to prove a stop was unjust to claim victimization.

​

You laughing at definitions now

Nope. At your argument.
​

The vast majority of black people stopped and detained by police have done nothing wrong.

Prove it.



​

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

You mean here
Where it shows black people overwhelmingly responding that they've been unfairly stopped, treated poorly, and punished worse.

That shows that they BELIEVE they were which is not the point of contention since it was discussed back here.........

http://www.thecoli.com/posts/11445283/

Like I said, it just verifies what I've been saying.

​