Any websites about events in portuguese-speaking Africa?
- Thread starter mbewane
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loyola llothta
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Relax frenchie ...Cest La Vie
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
this has nothing to do with the thread topic but is the word "black" used over "noir" in France? i'm watching a documentary on Netflix about the French football team and they said "noir" is offensive and black is now preferred (and "beur" for Arabs?)Not french mais fais-toi plaisir
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
It's a vast question...first off the relationship to race is very touchy in France, because it's a supposedly "universalist" country, which is why the government cannot officialy hold statistics on black people. The "colour-free" aspect of the Republique is enshrined in the Constitution, which obviously doesn't stop racism but makes it difficult to talk about it. That's for some quick context, and you already see how is extremely different it is when compared to the US. Even though France DID have slaves and explicit racist laws ("Le Code Noir"), those mostly were not applied in mainland France. So all that is so experience that is "far away" for the vast majority of French people, as opposed to in the US where slavery and racial segregation was (is) happening on the mainland and is common history for all (on both sides of the fence obviously). That means speaking about race in the US and naming things is quite different from doing the same thing in France.
White people in France would rather use "black" because it's associated with the "cool" Black culture, and using "Noir" would kind of go "against" the whole "we don't see colour" thing. Very hypocritical obviously, but it helps to use a foreign term (Black) as if keeping the condition of black people (Noirs) in France at a distance. It's the same hypocrisy that led all of France to celebrate Obama's election, but not question France's own de facto racism. "Black" makes people think of Micheal Jackson, MLK, Obama. "Noir" is closer to home, and now you have to talk about the colonies, racial and spatial segregation happening right here, etc. And ironically white people who are not racist also have a hard time using the word because they fear it is considered offensive by Black people.
More and more Black people use the term "Noir" because they (we) see clearly in all of this and also understand that underlying is the implication that US Blacks are "accepted", but Africans and those with direct african ancesry (or from overseas France) are not. And using a french term ("noir") also insists on the fact that black people are a part of France, so why use a foreign term to talk about them?
"Beur" on the other hand is less and less used, it's more a term of the 90s-00s imo...more likely to be referred as "Maghrébins" or "Arabes", when it's not "Musulmans" (depending on what they are referred to for).
Props
You know for a supposedly developed Western European power France is extremely volatile
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
Props
You know for a supposedly developed Western European power France is extremely volatile
You mean "volatile" in the sense that it could blow up? Yeah all this stuff that has been pushed under the rug, the things is that on one hand you have centuries of history of oppression that are part of some french people's history, but on the other since most of that was happening in the colonies and overseas, it's not known history to the majority population. So yeah you can def feel pressure building up. But things are changing and people of colour are more and more in sync with their own history, and now have the means to express themselves regardless of what the majority population thinks. And even if most of this history is indeed hushed, since a lot of white French people are extremely critical of their government and its "official history" there's some sort of openness there I guess.
I don't know if you did your school in France but we were told from a young age that talking about "minorities" like "les américains" and describing people by their skin color was racist and discriminatory. I think more than a constitutional difference it's a cultural difference with English countries. France never really defined people through racial identity, unlike the English or the Dutch (see colonization). So it made sense to import the word "black" from a racialist culture. That's how I understand the use of "black" instead of "noir". Personally I use noir aussi...
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
I was in a french school back in CAR and then spent a couple years (last year of HS and 4 years at University) in France, so yeah I've been through that too...yep more and more people are using "noir"
Bien vu Idéal J, et bienvenue frangin
its just crazy how in the last 60-70 years France has gone through so much upheaval (WW2, Algerian War, terrorists attacks, immigration, those riots in the suburbs, rise of the National Front, etc.)...from the outside looking in, France doesn't seem as stabile as a Germany or UK....say what you want about the US, but its institutions are strong (which is a good and bad thing)
French institutions are strong too, these things you mention are social/geopolitical. Without strong institutions and its relatively accepting culture, France would have probably fallen. I think you get this impression because of the way English speaking media report about France. Keep in mind France is more exposed to tension areas than the UK or the US, due to its location and its policies.
But I give you that French are more loose/lay back when it come to respecting the law and also very rebel...
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
Yep, breh above said the main stuff already. France is in a totally different context respective to Germany (hardly any colonial history to deal with, situated in the North of Europe, not really exposed on the world scene) and the UK (America's little brother, an island -France is actually the one who manages illegal immigration to the UK- that is cut off even from the rest of Europe -not part of Schengen, on their way out of the EU, and we all know the colonial empire was managed differently than France's).
Like breh said France is quite stable, the thing is that it's one of the most "exposed" western countries : geographically first (while the US for example is a perfect example of how geographical isolation can be a plus) : you're in the middle of Western Europe (no offense to Eastern Europe, but that's the part that's relevant), a couple hours from your former colonies. Population-wise too, since contrary to what some think damn near the whole world is present in France and has influence in it. Politically too, because France has always been a "world-player" on all issues. So all of that will have consequences.
But yeah the fact you (@Dip) probably get most of your info from english-speaking sources might inflate the perceived instability, french-bashing is a tradition for english-speakers, for various reasons. People were really talking about "no-go zones" in the middle of Paris
. Institutions in France are quite strong, still prob a top 10 economy in the world, cheap education, cheap health support, lots of social nets, access to culture, quite good quality of life etc...if it wasn't indeed all the stuff it's been through might've had worse consequences. All is not great, far from that (unemployment, racism, spatial segregation, etc) but France's demise has been announced by english-speakers for ages. It's been around for like a thousand years, and has been through lots of stuff (the plague, religious wars, revolutions, Inquisition...) before
You right all my news is from English services but if Francafrique decides to remove their currency from french reservesYep, breh above said the main stuff already. France is in a totally different context respective to Germany (hardly any colonial history to deal with, situated in the North of Europe, not really exposed on the world scene) and the UK (America's little brother, an island -France is actually the one who manages illegal immigration to the UK- that is cut off even from the rest of Europe -not part of Schengen, on their way out of the EU, and we all know the colonial empire was managed differently than France's).
Like breh said France is quite stable, the thing is that it's one of the most "exposed" western countries : geographically first (while the US for example is a perfect example of how geographical isolation can be a plus) : you're in the middle of Western Europe (no offense to Eastern Europe, but that's the part that's relevant), a couple hours from your former colonies. Population-wise too, since contrary to what some think damn near the whole world is present in France and has influence in it. Politically too, because France has always been a "world-player" on all issues. So all of that will have consequences.
But yeah the fact you (@Dip) probably get most of your info from english-speaking sources might inflate the perceived instability, french-bashing is a tradition for english-speakers, for various reasons. People were really talking about "no-go zones" in the middle of Paris
Y’all also have worst fundamental Muslim issues in the West
From the outside looking in it does seem volatile.
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
You right all my news is from English services but if Francafrique decides to remove their currency from french reserves
Y’all also have worst fundamental Muslim issues in the West
From the outside looking in it does seem volatile.
Oh I hear you breh, there's tons of stuff in France, don't get me wrong. But just 70-60years ago it was WW2, the Algerian war, 73 crisis, etc...this country's been managing issues since forever
also, how do ethnic French view white nonethnic French? Like French Algerians that came back, children of Polish, Portuguese, etc. immigrants?Oh I hear you breh, there's tons of stuff in France, don't get me wrong. But just 70-60years ago it was WW2, the Algerian war, 73 crisis, etc...this country's been managing issues since forever