Apparently Genitals no longer define Gender

[MidniteDejavu]

There are only 2 genders currently in society.

Ask any trans person. They either want to be called a man, or they want to be called a woman. None of them are asking to be called it.

Not "It" but "They"

Leo Soell, transgender teacher, wins $60K settlement for co-workers’ improper gender pronouns

A transgender schoolteacher in Oregon won a $60,000 settlement from a school district after co-workers allegedly failed to address the teacher by the proper gender pronouns.

The Gresham-Barlow School District agreed to pay emotional damages to Leo Soell, who teaches the fifth grade at Hall Elementary School and identifies as neither male nor female.

Soell, who identifies as “they,” said co-workers continuously used the wrong gender pronouns when referring to Soell, instead using terms such as “she,” “lady” or “Miss Soell.”


Soell also said the school prohibited Soell from telling students about Soell’s gender identity. If asked by students whether Soell were male or female, Soell was told to respond, “We all have private lives, and it would not be appropriate to talk about our private lives during the school day.”

Soell filed a complaint against co-workers, but a district investigation found no evidence of harassment, which prompted Soell to sue the district.

 

[Gold]

Are you talking linguistically or conceptually? The concept of varying gender roles is tens of thousands of years old. Ancient historians noticed differences in the way women and men of different cultures/civilizations acted, so the concept of gender as distinct from sex is by no means a modern phenomenon. The specific linguistic difference between the literal terms "gender" and "sex" is obviously much younger, but that's a semantic issue and is more or less inconsequential to the point of the OP. There has always been a sex-gender distinction, we just didn't have our modern terminology to describe the difference until relatively recently, obviously.

I was talking strictly scientifically and the way we have used the terminology.
I agree with what you are saying about distinctions. In fact in this very thread I said that those wanting there to be seperation have a strong case due to hermaphroditical traits and intersex.

Not "It" but "They"

Leo Soell, transgender teacher, wins $60K settlement for co-workers’ improper gender pronouns

A transgender schoolteacher in Oregon won a $60,000 settlement from a school district after co-workers allegedly failed to address the teacher by the proper gender pronouns.

The Gresham-Barlow School District agreed to pay emotional damages to Leo Soell, who teaches the fifth grade at Hall Elementary School and identifies as neither male nor female.

Soell, who identifies as “they,” said co-workers continuously used the wrong gender pronouns when referring to Soell, instead using terms such as “she,” “lady” or “Miss Soell.”


Soell also said the school prohibited Soell from telling students about Soell’s gender identity. If asked by students whether Soell were male or female, Soell was told to respond, “We all have private lives, and it would not be appropriate to talk about our private lives during the school day.”

Soell filed a complaint against co-workers, but a district investigation found no evidence of harassment, which prompted Soell to sue the district.

I'll admit this is news to me. I am genuinely curious as to how common this is, especially seeing as how they is commonly used as plural pronoun

 

[King Kreole]

Its confusing because they literally took a scientific, defined phrase and said "it no longer means what you thought it meant" '

And the scientific community said... "ok, you got it"

You say this as if the linguistic distinction was created out of some newfangled whim instead of a rational and useful clarification. Science isn't static, it evolves in the name of accuracy all the time. To be able to differentiate between sex and gender is necessary in many academic fields, so having the linguistic system mirror that reality is practical.

Also, this change took place at least half a century ago, so unless someone was educated using decades outdated textbooks, I don't see how the confusion would even arise. It's like someone now being confused that the terms surrounding race theory in the 19th century are no longer in use. No modern scientific/academic community will accept the term "biological gender" because it is anachronistic.

 

[AAKing23]

 

[Gold]

You say this as if the linguistic distinction was created out of some newfangled whim instead of a rational and useful clarification. Science isn't static, it evolves in the name of accuracy all the time. To be able to differentiate between sex and gender is necessary in many academic fields, so having the linguistic system mirror that reality is practical.

Also, this change took place at least half a century ago, so unless someone was educated using decades outdated textbooks, I don't see how the confusion would even arise. It's like someone now being confused that the terms surrounding race theory in the 19th century are no longer in use. No modern scientific/academic community will accept the term "biological gender" because it is anachronistic.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said in the first paragraph, i'm just stating how it was as opposed to how it is now. I think you are confronting a bias in my posting that just isn't there.
Its analgous (somewhat) to how the scientific/medical community classified homosexuality as a mental disorder until recently.

If I said "Homosexuality used to be considered a mental disorder but now it is accepted as a lifestyle choice" I would just be simply stating a fact.

As to your second paragraph, there is expectation and reality. The expectation is that everyone would know what someone means when they say gender. But you know as well as I do that in reality, the debate on this concept is still as hot today as it ever was.

In fact, when you ask if someone is a he or a she, are you asking their gender? are you asking their sex? If someone asks you, are you 100% sure what they are asking?

There are plenty of people who are confused by this. Not excusing their confusing, just stating facts

 

[King Kreole]

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said in the first paragraph, i'm just stating how it was as opposed to how it is now. I think you are confronting a bias in my posting that just isn't there.
Its analgous (somewhat) to how the scientific/medical community classified homosexuality as a mental disorder until recently.

If I said "Homosexuality used to be considered a mental disorder but now it is accepted as a lifestyle choice" I would just be simply stating a fact.

As to your second paragraph, there is expectation and reality. The expectation is that everyone would know what someone means when they say gender. But you know as well as I do that in reality, the debate on this concept is still as hot today as it ever was.

In fact, when you ask if someone is a he or a she, are you asking their gender? are you asking their sex? If someone asks you, are you 100% sure what they are asking?

There are plenty of people who are confused by this. Not excusing their confusing, just stating facts

Nah, I don't think you have any bias, I was just initially mistaken on whether you were talking linguistically or conceptually. You're of course right that it's a fact gender and sex used to be linguistically interchangeable. I've just honestly never encountered someone still confusing gender for sex or vice-versa. I have never heard it used like that except in a historical context. I honestly believe(d) that the distinction was widely accepted. If anything, I would think the recent controversy over issues pertaining to gender and sex would have made the definition of the terms clearer to people. The controversies have been over things like transgenderism, not whether the basic gender-sex distinction is valid.

 

[Gold]

Nah, I don't think you have any bias, I was just initially mistaken on whether you were talking linguistically or conceptually. You're of course right that it's a fact gender and sex used to be linguistically interchangeable. I've just honestly never encountered someone still confusing gender for sex or vice-versa. I have never heard it used like that except in a historical context. I honestly believe(d) that the distinction was widely accepted. If anything, I would think the recent controversy over issues pertaining to gender and sex would have made the definition of the terms clearer to people. The controversies have been over things like transgenderism, not whether the basic gender-sex distinction is valid.

I agree to an extent yes.

If someone says, "name some widely accepted male gender roles and traits" people will most likley not mention "having a penis"
But instead they will mention things like that are attributed to masculinity.

So in that regard I agree.

But when it comes to classifying yourself as a man or a woman, there is a very large contingent (I would say the vast majority of people on the planet) who do not believe that there is nor should be any distinction.
I have no data to back that up, just speaking from what I know of the more populous cultures in this world.

 

[Sypress]

Nothing wrong with Checkers

Word

 

[King Kreole]

I agree to an extent yes.

If someone says, "name some widely accepted male gender roles and traits" people will most likley not mention "having a penis"
But instead they will mention things like that are attributed to masculinity.

So in that regard I agree.

But when it comes to classifying yourself as a man or a woman, there is a very large contingent (I would say the vast majority of people on the planet) who do not believe that there is nor should be any distinction.
I have no data to back that up, just speaking from what I know of the more populous cultures in this world.

I think that's because most people would regard the terms "man" or "woman" in that context as belonging to sex, not gender. Like, if you ask someone to classify themselves as masculine or feminine, a gendered question, you'll likely see much more equivocation and a broader spectrum of answers.

 

[Gold]

I think that's because most people would regard the terms "man" or "woman" in that context as belonging to sex, not gender. Like, if you ask someone to classify themselves as masculine or feminine, a gendered question, you'll likely see much more equivocation and a broader spectrum of answers.

Agreed, which is what I was alluded to above.
But that still doesn't change the fact that the divide/confusion/resistance exists.


You can call it semantics... but that would be dismissive, because there are many people who don't just want to be called feminine or masculine, they want to be called a man or a woman (see Caitlyn Jenner)

And there are many people who are like "hell nah Bruce "

 

[ChiefQueen]

unless your willing to get into a physical relationship with a woman turned man then you can

it's real easy to be like yeah I accept that but if a real transgender came to you in real life testing that all of a sudden your

you want to accept thats a man or a woman fine but don't start stuttering or making excuses on why you wouldn't date or get involved with them.

Who am I kidding? You have a point. Things would be really different irl.

 

[Gravity]

It doesn't.

The defenses under should read:

My college education doesn't define my intelligence.
My physique doesn't define my health.
My semen doesn't define my fatherhood.

So do you also believe that skin color doesn't define race? Do you believe that genetic makeup doesn't define a species?

I assume that you support Rachel dolezal and all the people who ID themselves as animals and all that too correct?

Black people don't fukk with that fakkit shyt like non blacks. You in Canada iirc I'm sure it's diffrent there but in the diaspora we don't fukk with homo culture for the most part

Black women do and more and more black men are doing so as well.

 

[ndthentherewasx]

You are what you were born with.


No mas no menos

 

[Aphrodite]

So do you also believe that skin color doesn't define race? Do you believe that genetic makeup doesn't define a species?

I assume that you support Rachel dolezal and all the women who ID themselves as animals and all that too correct?

Do you wanna be on ignore?

 

[Gravity]

Do you wanna be on ignore?

If it'll make you happyDo you bruh.