Are Black Christians Grateful for Slavery/Colonization?

[Poitier]

To be honest, majority of the kongolese were forced to convert. The first king that interacted with the portuguese, Nzinga a Nkuwu or João I of Kongo, fell in love with Christianity, but the majority of his people didn't want that. There were many wars inside of the Kongo Kingdom, because of that. New kingdoms and fractions were also born because of that.

Well, in Luanda(Angola's capital), there is an island called Priests Island(Ilha dos Padres), where the missionaires used to take kongolese, beat them and force them to adopt Christianity

This church, is where they used to force kongolese people to convert, after the beating and humiliation.

I need to see sources because everything I've read says otherwise.
And even if true, its different when its an internal decision vs enslavement.

 

[Benefited]

Marcus,Martin,Nat were truly prophets who helped black proggression as well as those who followed them. The problem with Christianity as I see it is majority of pastors lack the true discernment and knowledge of self to be proper leaders over ANY flock. But that would be black Christians fault for not finding their own discernment and properly dissecting the bible like the great Marcus Garvey and Nat Turner were able too. They were able to use it as an inspiration for black empowerment.

I think we can agree Christianity is weakening and harmful in the wrong hands,and very powerful in the right hands,just like any weapon. Point being,its still a weapon

Black folks just should be taught knowledge of self before ever opening up a bible,because otherwise they run the danger of viewing it from the very eurocentric lense that has been promoted in this white society.

Sad thing is many of you athiest were on the right track in seeing that the eurocentric version many blacks are taught and believe is false. But the problem is you went too damn far

Its a shame because many of you may have been great men of god who could have woken your people up, to the true power of the bible like Garvey did

Instead you are now trying to lead sheep away right into the arms of the european ways,disobeying gods laws and the laws of nature.

 

[Brolic Scholar]

I had a long response typed up answering anyone that quoted me and even saved a draft of it. Now it's gone. Not interested in redoing it. fukk it.

 

[Lamar Givens]

I had a long response typed up answering anyone that quoted me and even saved a draft of it. Now it's gone. Not interested in redoing it. fukk it.

You’re arguments were not convincing from jump, so

 

[Brolic Scholar]

You’re arguments were not convincing from jump, so

First off it's "your". Secondly, neither are your arguments. So I guess it's a wash.

 

[Lamar Givens]

First off it's "your". Secondly, neither are your arguments. So I guess it's a wash.

1. Yes. You are correct. I should have used your.

2. Your initial argument was that black people are for a white man's religion. However, historical Biblical Christianity is not a white man's religion; therefore your initial statement has flaws from jump.

3. Furthermore, you furthered the argument by saying black people should be ashamed for accepting, believing, and spreading their oppressor's religion.

4. The hypocrisy and not well thought out argument you presented demonstrates itself in the very fact that you use every day your oppressors math, science, LANGUAGE, technology, literature, etc etc etc.

5. How you don't see the blatant hypocrisy and contradiction of your own statements is

 

[DPresidential]

I had a long response typed up answering anyone that quoted me and even saved a draft of it. Now it's gone. Not interested in redoing it. fukk it.

All jokes and disagreements aside for a second...

I hate when that shyt happens.

I feel your pain. The fact that you had a long in depth response indicates that you respect the topic and even though we disagree, you wanted your point across.

Rep for that.

 

[get these nets]

So you can name the historians right? If you know that pre slave trade your tribe weren’t Christian... you should be able to name your tribe and ATR..

Can you cite the historians you’re referring too, and indentify the Africa tribe you descended from, and also describe the the tenets of the religion of your tribe?

??? For the sake of this thread, I will cite the historian that I've made several posts about on the coli . John Henrik Clarke.
Christianity entering and spreading through Europe because of the Roman Empire is accepted by historians. Clarke was perhaps one of the most respected historians and he's written and lectured about origins, co-opting, and spread of Christianity throughout the world.

I said in the previous post that I cannot identify the ethnic groups (plural) that I am personally descended from. Like I also said before, I can tell you which ethnic groups were most dominant and plentiful in St. Domingue, and there are archives that detail which parts of Africa that most of the enslaved people brought to French territory were from. With almost 100% certainty, they were not Christians though.

I can give you the text book descriptions of the general tenets of Voudou as practiced in Haiti, and as practiced in the area in West Africa most closely linked to it. Textbook version because neither set of my grand parents practiced any version of it, so neither of my parents did either.

Was puzzled by your post, though. Asking me to name the historians who wrote about things that are accepted as FACT .in 2018?, name my tribe(singular) ? describe the religious tenets of my tribe(singular)?
What is/was the overall point of this line of questions?

 

[Benefited]

I had a long response typed up answering anyone that quoted me and even saved a draft of it. Now it's gone. Not interested in redoing it. fukk it.

If it was anywhere near as blashemous as your first,thecoli servers did you a favor.

Or maybe god sent you a chin check,and deleted that

 

[DPresidential]

I find it fascinating that it's established that Toussaint Loverture - instrumental in the successful Haitian Revolution against the oppressive French - was a devout Catholic.

I would not credit his Catholicism for his heroic rebellious drive, but, he's yet another example of a man of religion who fought against docility, enslavement and European dominance.

It's also fascinating that after the Haitian Revolution, with Haitians able to plot their own path and grow their own country, they clearly were autonomous in their policies on religion and
spirituality in their infant nation.

Yet, these Haitian founders did not ban religions from their country...

We have brehs in here who are concrete in their assertion that religious practice is the lynchpin reason for our disjointed unity... Yet, history paints a much more complicated tune than that.

 

[Ricky Fontaine]

If you were sick and a genocidal racist gave you a pill and told you it would make you better, would you still take that pill?

What if a genocidal racist TOLD you were sick but you feel perfectly fine, would you still take that pill?

 

[MarcMan]

Next thread:

Are English Speakers grateful for slavery/colonization?

"How can black people, who knew that English was the language of their oppressor, not be disgusted at speaking in English? Imagine talking to your beautiful baby in the same language as those who whipped us during slavery?

The idea of singing proudly in this English tongue has to only be acceptable by those who are grateful for the language, right?

I mean, otherwise, anyone who is educated enough to know that we'd never be speaking this b*stard tongue if there was no colonization.

If you are an adult and your primary method of communication isn't in a non-colonizing tongue...the fact that your comfortable with this language...does that tell us anything about those sheep who use it?"


Of course the above is satire but it has the same, of not more, credibility than the original premise of this thread.

The only problem here is that religion and language are not analogous. But let's go ahead and try to shoehorn the argument in for the sake of discussion. Even if we agree that knowing the English language is useful for business opportunities and such, one could still reasonably claim that the trade off of enslavement/colonization was not worth it. Now if one believes that a particular religion is the only way to get to a fantastical land for all eternity and that their oppressors have given them this gift, the trade off would seem a bit more reasonable.

But I think you knew that already.

 

[Marc Spector]

News flash:

The spread of religion can flair up and move to other areas of a Continent, thus debunking the theory that the majority of Africans would definitely not have known about and been exposed to Christianity.

Yea, because 1400 years before the slave trade Christianity would be impossible to spread throughout the continent given all that time, ya know

Willful ignorance breeds mental gymnastics

The history of the spread of Christianity throughout all of Africa is thoroughly verified in history

But since your a coli archaeological scholar please inform us of your detailed understanding of where each of our families originated from

Show me proof that the majority of central and western africans adopted Christianity as their primary belief system prior to Slavery/meeting CACs.

Because it seems like you both are running with an assumption to back up your premise: "Well since Christianity has SOME traces in North and Central Africa prior to Slavery, then OF COURSE it spread throughout the second largest continent in the world and was widely accepted "

 

[DPresidential]

Show me proof that the majority of central and western africans adopted Christianity as their primary belief system prior to Slavery/meeting CACs.

Because it seems like you both are running with an assumption to back up your premise: "Well since Christianity has SOME traces in North and Central Africa prior to Slavery, then OF COURSE it spread throughout the second largest continent in the world and was widely accepted "

No one...

Well, I haven't seen anyone say "of course it has spread blah blah blah"

I was saying it is a reach to claim that Christianity would not have spread throughout and been accepted by Africans without slavery.

 

[Marc Spector]

No one...

Well, I haven't seen anyone say "of course it has spread blah blah blah"

I was saying it is a reach to claim that Christianity would not have spread throughout and been accepted by Africans without slavery.

It is exactly a reach. Theres nothing i've seen to indicate that, without Imperialism, Christianity would've been anymore accepted moreso than Islam, or the various traditional African religions. Just because Christianity was in Africa doesnt meant everyone "IN" Africa liked it or practiced it.u Otherwise we're playing semantics.

I mean i'm sure you don't want to admit you're wrong, but until someone can show proof that Christianity was widely accepted by Western and Central Africans pre Slavery/Cacs, then the premise is flimsy.