Are Black Christians Grateful for Slavery/Colonization?

[DPresidential]

It is exactly a reach. Theres nothing i've seen to indicate that, without Imperialism, Christianity would've been anymore accepted moreso than Islam, or the various traditional African religions. Just because Christianity was in Africa doesnt meant everyone "IN" Africa liked it or practiced it.u Otherwise we're playing semantics.

I mean i'm sure you don't want to admit you're wrong, but until someone can show proof that Christianity was widely accepted by Western and Central Africans pre Slavery/Cacs, then the premise is flimsy.

No, you make a good point.

This thread has multiple layers of discussion and I really have no stake in making Christianity look good.

Objectively speaking, by the time European colonization revved its engines of imperialism and slavery, Christianity was already a powerhouse religion in the world.

We aren't talking about a small sect of people in the world being Christians at the time.

I think you made a great point in saying Christianity wouldn't have been any more accepted than Islam and various established african religions. I agree.

I won't say I'm confident that Christianity would have been the no 1 religion across the African continent had colonization not happened.

I am saying, I don't believe there would have automatically been a sweeping rejection of it.

To be fair, we are clearly both speculating and as I don't think there is evidence of a pre-colonial wide acceptance by West/Central Africans of Christianity, we also don't have evidence of a pre-colonial wide rejection of Christianity by those same groups.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

It is exactly a reach. Theres nothing i've seen to indicate that, without Imperialism, Christianity would've been anymore accepted moreso than Islam, or the various traditional African religions. Just because Christianity was in Africa doesnt meant everyone "IN" Africa liked it or practiced it.u Otherwise we're playing semantics.

I mean i'm sure you don't want to admit you're wrong, but until someone can show proof that Christianity was widely accepted by Western and Central Africans pre Slavery/Cacs, then the premise is flimsy.

Which central and western countries in particular?

 

[DPresidential]

The only problem here is that religion and language are not analogous. But let's go ahead and try to shoehorn the argument in for the sake of discussion. Even if we agree that knowing the English language is useful for business opportunities and such, one could still reasonably claim that the trade off of enslavement/colonization was not worth it. Now if one believes that a particular religion is the only way to get to a fantastical land for all eternity and that their oppressors have given them this gift, the trade off would seem a bit more reasonable.

But I think you knew that already.

See, I'm speaking about it without having to adhere to the belief that it's the "only way to get to a fantastical land for all eternity and that their oppressors have given them this gift.

To be honest, breh, that's strictly your assertion.

And, I highly doubt that the Black Chistian consensus would limit the power of their God by saying, "the only way we would have been able to be touched by the Christian salvation is if our ancestors were enslaved and raped into submission."

This should provide some light -


Billie Holiday & Duke Ellington were both Blues artists. Their artistry was a true beauty in this world and, I'm sure, both were proud to have discovered and be apart of this music art. Both made incredible contributions to the art but, unlike Billie Holiday, Duke Ellington's life story didn't involve being abandoned by his mother, influenced into prostitution the first day upon arriving in Harlem as a child and addicted to drugs and abuse by men which translated so beautifully into his music and sound.

Duke Ellington is an example that it would have been possible for Billie Holiday to have found inclusion into Jazz without the harrowing tale of abuse. The abuse was not necessary.

Now replace Blues artist with Christianity. Imagine Billie Holiday as the descendants of african slaves and imagine Duke Ellington as any non slave demographic that has adopted Christianity into its society.

Christians can not be expected to be grateful for the enslavement anymore than Billie Holiday can be grateful for the trauma, abuse and rape that pushed her toward the path of performing jazz and blues in the growing hub of Harlem, the Black Renaissance.

 

[Marc Spector]

Which central and western countries in particular?

Senegal, Ghana, Ivory Coast, Angola, The DRC, Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, Mali, Bight of Biafra is where most of our Lineage traces from

 

[Marc Spector]

Also due to @Poitier informing me in a earlier thread, I will concede the point that the Slaves from the Kingdom of Kongo (who were Catholic) more than likely made up a significant portion of Slaves, at least in South Carolina and Georgia and up until 1741 (wherein SC enacted a 10 year ban of importing slaves from that area and after the ban, did not take slaves from that area of Africa).

But i stand by my point that the practice of Christianity within Blacks is moreso due to the circumstances of Slavery/Imperialism moreso due to us retaining any remnants of it from Africa.

 

[Lamar Givens]

Show me proof that the majority of central and western africans adopted Christianity as their primary belief system prior to Slavery/meeting CACs.

Because it seems like you both are running with an assumption to back up your premise: "Well since Christianity has SOME traces in North and Central Africa prior to Slavery, then OF COURSE it spread throughout the second largest continent in the world and was widely accepted "

The Story of Africa| BBC World Service

I guess you thought you stumped someone.

 

[Marc Spector]

The Story of Africa| BBC World Service

I guess you thought you stumped someone.

Can you read nikka? That link you posted clearly says what ive been saying: that Christianity was largely present in North Africa. Then the part of about the Portuguese bringing Religion to Sub Saharan Africa in the 15th Century is directly referring to the Kingdom of Kongo (something i already mentioned). I never said it wasnt present at all, just wasnt largely practiced by Africans. And it wasnt until the 19th century (which funnily coincides with Cacs running all over Africa).

 

[Lamar Givens]

Also due to @Poitier informing me in a earlier thread, I will concede the point that the Slaves from the Kingdom of Kongo (who were Catholic) more than likely made up a significant portion of Slaves, at least in South Carolina and Georgia and up until 1741 (wherein SC enacted a 10 year ban of importing slaves from that area and after the ban, did not take slaves from that area of Africa).

But i stand by my point that the practice of Christianity within Blacks is moreso due to the circumstances of Slavery/Imperialism moreso due to us retaining any remnants of it from Africa.

Nah.

It’s more like your argument is no different than a blind mind desperately looking in a pitch black closet for a black cat that does not exist.

I know you desperately need to hold onto your false belief system but the evidence and facts don’t substantiate your claims and don’t care about your feelings.



The difference between me and you is that I can be intellectually honest when the facts and evidence contradict my assumptions/beliefs.

 

[Lamar Givens]

Senegal, Ghana, Ivory Coast, Angola, The DRC, Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, Mali, Bight of Biafra is where most of our Lineage traces from

This means absolutely nothing. Those remaining tribes, nations, peoples, etc who were not taken during slavery on the coasts and continents of Africa were still exposed to Christianity, Islam, and other religious beliefs. So your argument is still the fallacy of begging the question.

 

[Lamar Givens]

So in other words cacs used Christianity to enslave blacks and then used Christianity to free blacks

Dayum they precedded Nas with the...

Is it Oochie Wally or One Mic

 

[get these nets]

Fellas, have to agree with Marc Spector on the point of Western Christianity not having any significant amount or % of actual converts among the Africans who were enslaved in the USA or in the Americas as a whole.

For the sake of the discussion, let's focus on the ones eventually taken to the US during the slave trade.

 

[get these nets]

Since rulers sold enemy, rival, or captive groups..where are people arriving at the idea that a section of allegedly Catholic land in Africa captured and sold their OWN people to slavers?

I don't have my source material at hand and I do know that there were instances of rulers selling members of the same ethnic group they identified as, but this was the exception rather than the rule.

Even if a territory was full of willing converts, the enslaved people captured and sold to slavers would be their rivals, not them. And if their rivals or hostages were converts, they were forced.

How does this translate to there being any measurable % of Christian Africans who went through the middle passage?

Again, do not have my books and encyclopedia's handy.

 

[bruistoff]

^I’ve been lurking this topic since yesterday and was waiting for someone to move the topic in the direction that @Get These Nets is taking it.

That is the question I would like to be answered or dive deeper into

 

[Sonic Boom of the South]

Christianity is literally the product of crackas culture vulturing various African beliefs and making a collage

White people too lazy be to make up their own

 

[TRFG]

Blacks Christian are a joke literally and figuratively