As much as ya'll hate feminists...

[Scustin Trillberlake]

I'm not sure what problems you are talking about. But if you are talking about the issues with relationships there are social structures that were built by society to shame women if they decided to have sex with whomever she wanted... These ideas have been built through centuries. 60 years of women's lib is not going to tear down the idea that a woman who has sex with more than one man is a whore in society's eyes.

My theories about why these shaming practices have existed for so long... maybe it's because men who have been rejected didn't care for women going out and fukking every dude but them, so they found ways to make those women feel bad about themselves and it developed in history.

It's going to take a long time (see: a hundred more years or so) for women to be back onto equal footing with men as far as sex goes, and yes, there was a time when we were there.

 

[SouthernBelle]

If that wasn't your intent, it may have been easy to be confused. That's what I got from it.

Yes saying that many people on this board are simple for thinking that the women's movement is solely about sex or hating men does not in any way imply that those things never happened. It just means I think they aren't well read.

What you quoted from me before clearly acknowledged that those things happened and other posts from me even labeled them as pertinent. I simply said it was not the sole argument or purpose of the movement.

 

[electric_fur]

Yes saying that many people on this board are simple for thinking that the women's movement is solely about sex or hating men does not in any way imply that those things never happened. It just means I think they aren't well read.

What you quoted from me before clearly acknowledged that those things happened and other posts from me even labeled them as pertinent. I simply said it was not the sole argument or purpose of the movement.

Eh, I just took it as you agreeing with the person above, where they said that the feminist movement didn't have misogyny, if you looked at the post it was quoting.

Hey it's not a big deal, clearly there was a misunderstanding.

But Andrea Dworkin was not considered radical, she was a big part of the woman's movement back in the 80s.

Regardless, the current state of the movement is not about bashing the other gender.

 

[Scustin Trillberlake]

not saying I agree with this response, but it is a response

Essential Concepts: How Patriarchy and Rape Culture Hurt Men | Change Happens: The SAFER Blog

going slightly off topic, I don't know what race you are, but one thing I believe is that white male patriarchy is harmful to everyone who isn't a white male. I believe white male patriarchy and racism go hand and hand, which is what I was trying to say in that black feminism thread I made awhile back. but ya'll were so stuck on the term "black feminism" and what you thought it meant that ya'll weren't trying to hear it

Feminism has hurt black males & white working class males more than anyone.

"White Male Patriarchy"

 

[electric_fur]

Feminism has hurt black males & white working class males more than anyone.

"White Male Patriarchy"

What you wanna bet this dude isn't reading any of the articles linked?

 

[Scustin Trillberlake]

What you wanna bet this dude isn't reading any of the articles linked?

What do you want to bet i have read more about feminism than most people on here?

 

[The Electric Lady]

You don't know what feminism is. Go to a college class and then come back. Until then, 1 star. :smugcena:

 

[SouthernBelle]

Eh, I just took it as you agreeing with the person above, where they said that the feminist movement didn't have misogyny, if you looked at the post it was quoting.

Hey it's not a big deal, clearly there was a misunderstanding.

But Andrea Dworkin was not considered radical, she was a big part of the woman's movement back in the 80s.

Regardless, the current state of the movement is not about bashing the other gender.

That post also had some good things in it besides that one line. I clarified my stance in at least five different post after the one so yeah I will continue to assert that the women's movement had different leaders and arguments and not everyone even agreed with each other in the movement (just like every other movement).

Daygo just wanted to argue his talking points and continue to say what I meant even after I clarified. Anyone who tells me what I mean after I told them what I mean

 

[Mountain]

I was responding to OP in that first post of mine here.

I know that feminism used to be about those things and that it used to have a certain purpose, but it's jumped the shark. It's not about equal rights any more. It's about unfair alimony laws, brow beating men out of expressing their sexuality, making violence against men okay while suggesting that violence against women is just so much worse for some reason, and perpetuating the wage gap myth. They do this by pushing the slander that all problems from society come from the "patriarchy," in other words everything masculine and male, and that the solution for this is "feminism," in other words everything feminine and female.

Can't cosign. Too much hypocrisy.

I hear you breh, but its seems you're talking about "neo-feminism".

Eh, I just took it as you agreeing with the person above, where they said that the feminist movement didn't have misogyny, if you looked at the post it was quoting.

Hey it's not a big deal, clearly there was a misunderstanding.

But Andrea Dworkin was not considered radical, she was a big part of the woman's movement back in the 80s.

Regardless, the current state of the movement is not about bashing the other gender.

I never said that. Im sure the feminist movement had some fake feminists within its ranks that were really misandrists.

Are you serious??? There was a male-bashing era of feminism because there had to be for self preservation purposes. If you don't recognize that, there are some issues. What do you think Andrea Dworkin was about? You can't have a movement and make it all rainbows and butterflies because people make mistakes. To err is human. There are good and bad parts of it. I can tell you both.


Also I never called feminism and misandry synonymous.

You implied they once were by stating feminism was once about male hating; which is the exact definition misandrism.

Feminism has always been a strictly egalitarian ideology, now, how that ideology was enforced (whether through violence, peace, male bashing, strikes, politics, rallies .e.t.c) is a different story. What you need to understand is that the way in which an ideology is enforced doesn’t necessarily define it or convey its fundamental character.

 

[DaChampIsHere]

You know why dudes hate feminism? Because weaker, less desirable and lower tier males can no longer hide behind the idea of a woman needing them for sustenance/support.

Because of "feminism" women no longer have to:
- Find a man to provide for them
- Wait for a man to do something for them
- Pretend to be these perfect little creatures with no sexual desires

Back in the day, a dude who couldn't get a woman to like him, have sex with him or desire him could hide behind that woman's piety and fidelity and under the expectation of long term chivalry rather than face the truth: he was not as desirable as the other males this woman can in contact with. And as a woman who was supposed to be this creature without any imperfection, her "wants" (whether right or wrong) were frowned upon.

I don't feel like the good part of "feminism" was ever about getting women out the homes, but moreso allowing them the ability to choose and make selections for themselves. There are many women to day who would still like to play the role of housewife at some point, but they also realize that they have to take care of them selves financially as well. I know a lot of women who would love to be housewives, but they are only gonna do it for the right guy; a guy with whom they are able to place their confidence in. Dudes aren't getting married straight out of high school anymore, not even straight out of college. So what are these women supposed to do for sustenance?

Same dudes who say they hate feminism and that they wanna go back to the old way of things, will also say they don't believe in getting married early, they need someone to help them pay the bills, don't want to spend money on dates, don't want to practice chivalry, that they don't even know how to be men on their own because of their lack of father (but somehow expect to lead a household), and will also say they don't wanna pay alimony if a divorce happens. All in all, a complete contradiction.

I always find it funny, when dudes on here say that women suffer from feminism which is why so many of them aren't married, are single, etc. BUT, if these same dudes were smart enough to simply even just look at numbers, they'd noticed that many women (the same amount more than likely) would be assed out any way if not for feminism. Women outnumber men at a 2:1 ratio, worldwide, but you're really trying to sit in here and say women are lonely because of feminism? No, nimwit. It's a numbers game that has nothing to do with our social conditions.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that feminism was necessary for optimal financial and social conditions for those women left out because of the numbers game. How can we say that all women should stay in the home when there aren't even enough homes for every woman? Some of them would have needed financial mobility regardless of whether feminism ever occurred or not.

On the other side of this less desirable and lower tiered females also suffer in this time period as well. Whether they are uglier, less socially adjusted, they suffer in the same way as their male equivalents. So yes, women suffer the same because only the top supply of women are able to attract the top supply of men. The rest of everyone else will have to charge some things to the game and just have to settle, as they did +40 years ago. Of course, with the American/western way of thinking ("Just keep working and you'll get what you want eventually because you'll deserve it") none of them will do such and will continue to blame everyone else for their unequally yolked standards.

 

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

You all trade one dead horse for another.

 

[electric_fur]

I hear you breh, but its seems you're talking about "neo-feminism".




I never said that.



You implied they once were by stating feminism was once about male hating; which is the exact definition misandrism.

Feminism has always been a strictly egalitarian ideology, now, how that ideology was enforced (whether through violence, peace, male bashing, strikes, politics, rallies .e.t.c) is different story. What you need to understand is that the ways in which an ideology is enforced doesn’t necessarily define it or convey its fundemental character.

No I didn't "imply" that. Stop putting words into my mouth just because you assumed something.

You don't want me to put words into your mouth, don't do it to me.

What you need to understand is that I didn't define it in any such way and you are assuming things about my ideas now, I think you are confusing me with the thoughts of other posters in this thread, and you need to knock that off. Feminism used male bashing during a point in time as a means to an end. At no point did I ever said a core construct of feminism is hating males. During the time that male bashing was done, women needed to do it as a way to grow closer together. I don't condone that practice, but that was how they did it. When I said it was "about" male bashing, I didn't mean it was taught to women and women were being indoctrinated.


There are issues with feminism, it isn't perfect, and it's something you need to understand.

For example, feminism excluded trans* women for years. A person people try to hold up as a feminist icon, Margaret Sanger, was into eugenics. These aren't small issues.

 

[Ain't That Something]

You all trade one dead horse for another.

Nature of the game breh breh.

You know nikkas gone look for reason to bytch back and forth

 

[TheScarsOnSealsFace]

You know why dudes hate feminism? Because weaker, less desirable and lower tier males can no longer hide behind the idea of a woman needing them for sustenance/support.

Honestly, I didn't read all of that shyt. But the reason I dislike feminism is how they treated other feminists who made the mistake of trying to help men and boys. Christina Hoff Summers got death threats from feminists. Erin Pizzey, a feminist who made the mistake of opening a domestic shelter for women and realizing that women were just as violent as men, also got death threats and also had her dog killed by feminists. And good ole Warren Farrell, another feminist(former leader of the National Organization of Women) who was stupid enough to also advocate for men and boys.....You can watch what happens here.





So yea, fukk feminism. fukk your male shaming. It's not the 90s anymore. It's 2013. Male shaming is old and it's played out by now.

 

[BillBanneker]

You all trade one dead horse for another.

and it provides so much reading material during work.