Back when LeBron often ended high school games in the first half...

[Professor Emeritus]

@Rhakim

truth hurts huh fakkit?

Let me know when you move out your grand ma's house no money getting ass crackhead nikka.

So your avi is a blackface cartoon character pretending to be black and you're gonna talk that way to ME?

He PM'd me too to say the same thing he's so insecure about it.

I don't get how Bron can be greater than Jordan? Passing is great, but is it the right move in crunch time if you pass to an inferior player under the guise of making the right play? Constantly having to twist and turn rosters over to get the perfect fit for your play style? Big time turnovers late in games. Cramps under pressure from anxiety. Dallas choke. Free throw chokes. The player you guard in the finals gets finals MVP more times than you have over your career (KD 2x, Iggy, Kawhi) vs Bron 3. Finals games win/loss record 18-31.

MJ is the greatest but most of your complaints are dumb kobestan-style talking points.

Are John Paxson, Steve Kerr, Luc Longley, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Ron Artest, etc. all inferior players? Because MJ and Kobe were passing the ball to them in crunch time. You're an idiot if you think a star shooting over a double-team is a better shot than a shooter who's wide open. Nothing works 100% of the time, but every winning player has learned to pass to the open man. Since LeBron has as many playoff game-winners as MJ and nearly 50% more than Kobe, you'd have to be ignorant to say he passes too much.

Claiming LeBron has "constantly having to twist and turn rosters over" just stupid. Even assuming the Coli narrative that LeBron really runs the front office of all these teams, try and tell me, before coming to the Lakers, name ONE good player that he got rid of because he wasn't a "perfect fit for his play style"??? Every team has roster turnover - tell me, where did Nick van Exel, Eddie Jones, Glen Rice, Caron Butler, and Andrew Bynum go? LeBron inherited a lot of teams with shytty players and slowly replaced them with better ones....was he supposed to not do that?

You don't get cramps from anxiety, that's one of the dumbest hates I've ever seen on here.

Iggy and Kawhi got sympathy votes for "holding" LeBron to a combined 32-10-7 on 48% shooting. That's supposed to be an L for LeBron, that "holding" him to GOAT numbers is considered a win for anyone else? And dumbasses complain that LeBron wasn't guarding KD most of the time and then claim that LeBron was guarding KD for internet purposes?

What "big turnovers late in games"? LeBron doesn't turn the ball over any more in the clutch than any other primary ballhandler. Another example of just making shyt up.

Same with free throws. He's a 6'8" 270lb forward who shoots free throws at a 73% rate. He shoots the same % in the clutch that he does any other time. MJ and Magic and Kobe famously missed free throws in the clutch too, EVERYONE does, that doesn't mean they choked because no one makes every free throw.

Finals record is all-time stupid trolling. From 2015-2016, LeBron's Finals record was 6-7. You'd consider that "losing", when in reality he had two of the most remarkable runs in NBA history. Somehow it would have been "better" for his Finals record if he had just bowed out of the playoffs when Love/Kyrie got hurt. Somehow Kobe being a #2 on a team that easily beats inferior Sixers and Nets teams in 2002-2003 (woohoo, 8-1 finals record!) is greater than LeBron dominating to defeat superior Spurs and Warriors teams in 7 (very mediocre 8-6 Finals record). Someone making it to the Finals against all odds in 2007, 2015, and 2018 is worse than losing in the first round would have been.


LeBron wasn't ready against Dallas. They played the perfect defense to take advantage of both Miami and LeBron's weaknesses, and he didn't know how to respond. That's on him. The other points you made were just dumb.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Semantics. We saw Shaq get his 4th after bron came in. We saw Kobe and Duncan get their 5th since lebron came in. Thats the point. You cant claim to be top3 all time when we've seen great players win more than you. He gets more credit all the time for shyt he didnt do yet. Everyone gets held to the highest standard except bron.

It's not "semantics" when those guys won half their titles before LeBron was even on the scene. Magic got his 3rd, 4th, and 5th titles after MJ came on the scene, does that mean that Magic was better than MJ until MJ got up to 5-6 titles? Literally NO ONE was using that talking point in the 1990s. Y'all just make up whatever shyt comes into your heads and then throw it against the wall to see if it sticks.

Hell, Scottie Pippen won his 5th and 6th titles after Kobe came on the scene. So I guess Scottie is better than Kobe too, because 2nd-fiddle titles count just as much as Finals MVPs, right?

There's only one player who has more Finals MVPs than LeBron. MJ. That's it. For everyone else, you're saying that they should get more credit for being on great teams or for being second fiddles than LeBron should get for clearly being the #1 on a champion.

 

[KING WILL]

Did any of his teammates do anything in college?

 

[THE MACHINE]

MJ is the greatest

Thank you, glad we agree.

Are John Paxson, Steve Kerr, Luc Longley, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Ron Artest, etc. all inferior players? Because MJ and Kobe were passing the ball to them in crunch time.

Yes they are inferior. MJ passed yes, but he was the ultimate 1 v 1 player. Nobody said shooting over double teams is a good strategy, you inserted that yourself. Calling for a screen will bring a double team late in games if they trap. Don't call for a screen, use you 1 v 1 skillset and get a good shot, pass if the defense fully commits to helping.

Because MJ and Kobe were passing the ball to them in crunch time.

Kobe is not in the same discussion as these 2 IMO. Not sure why he's being mentioned unless you assumed I was a Kobe fan

Nothing works 100% of the time, but every winning player has learned to pass to the open man. Since LeBron has as many playoff game-winners as MJ and nearly 50% more than Kobe, you'd have to be ignorant to say he passes too much.

That's not how I came to that conclusion. I don't base it off of who has the most. I base it off of the amount of times you have the situation present itself and how many times you pass only to see the inferior player miss. His resume doesnt stack up to Mike's so maybe he should have passed less in winning time? FG percentages for role players aren't the same with the game on the line so you have to be the guy, like he was on the 2018 run. And I don't advocate shooting it every time, but we've seen hot potato from him too often. Again, not sure why Kobe is in the discussion

Claiming LeBron has "constantly having to twist and turn rosters over" just stupid. Even assuming the Coli narrative that LeBron really runs the front office of all these teams, try and tell me, before coming to the Lakers, name ONE good player that he got rid of because he wasn't a "perfect fit for his play style"??? Every team has roster turnover - tell me, where did Nick van Exel, Eddie Jones, Glen Rice, Caron Butler, and Andrew Bynum go? LeBron inherited a lot of teams with shytty players and slowly replaced them with better ones....was he supposed to not do that?

I don't believe Bron is as much a front office player as most but I believe he mopes and pouts much more than Mike if the roster/coaching staff isn't exactly to his liking. I could be wrong about thisThis has a negative impact on getting the best out of the guys around you. Somehow we're back to Kobe again?? He's not on their level

​

You don't get cramps from anxiety, that's one of the dumbest hates I've ever seen on here.

Not in the mood to google before responding?
What To Do When Anxiety Causes Leg Pain
How Anxiety May Cause Muscle Cramps
WebMD Symptom Checker Condition

Hyperventilation
Symptoms

Symptoms of hyperventilation include shortness of breath; anxiety and nervousness; a sense of impending doom; bloating or burping; chest pain; rapid heartbeat; muscle spasms; dry mouth; numbness or tingling in the hands, feet, and around the mouth, sleep problems; confusion; dizziness; and fainting.

​

He cramped in 2 separate finals and game 7 of Cavs v Pacers, its anxiety related. Unless we missed the spot where those other teams turned off the AC.

Iggy and Kawhi got sympathy votes for "holding" LeBron to a combined 32-10-7 on 48% shooting. That's supposed to be an L for LeBron, that "holding" him to GOAT numbers is considered a win for anyone else? And dumbasses complain that LeBron wasn't guarding KD most of the time and then claim that LeBron was guarding KD for internet purposes?

What "big turnovers late in games"?

For the record, I think Curry deserved fMVP in 2015, as for turnovers.





4:50
had a three to tie the game, stripped by Iggy

Same with free throws. He's a 6'8" 270lb forward who shoots free throws at a 73% rate. He shoots the same % in the clutch that he does any other time. MJ and Magic and Kobe famously missed free throws in the clutch too, EVERYONE does, that doesn't mean they choked because no one makes every free throw.

"in the final 15 seconds of the fourth quarter or overtime, LeBron is 10-21 (48 percent) on free throws in one-score games since the start of last season. That's the worst free-throw percentage of any player with at least 10 free throw attempts in those situations."

Big difference between a miss here and there and a 10/21 stretch in clutch time. Not to mention the times it appears he doesn't want the ball in his hands late. And again, keep the argument between Bron and Mike, that was the original premise you responded to. Me having Bron 2nd all time behind Mike and the reasons he isn't better is what you decided to quote.

Finals record is all-time stupid trolling. From 2015-2016, LeBron's Finals record was 6-7. You'd consider that "losing", when in reality he had two of the most remarkable runs in NBA history. Somehow it would have been "better" for his Finals record if he had just bowed out of the playoffs when Love/Kyrie got hurt. Somehow Kobe being a #2 on a team that easily beats inferior Sixers and Nets teams in 2002-2003 (woohoo, 8-1 finals record!) is greater than LeBron dominating to defeat superior Spurs and Warriors teams in 7 (very mediocre 8-6 Finals record). Someone making it to the Finals against all odds in 2007, 2015, and 2018 is worse than losing in the first round would have been.

Back to Kobe huh?? Mike is 6/6, that's what my point is about. Stop deflecting. I don't think losing before is better than making it and losing. -Brons finals record is far superior to Kobes. People say Kobe became the man in LA in 2003, making his finals record as the man 2/4) 3/9 > 2/4, losing early isnt better than losing in the finals. And the 2008 Finals Lakers choked away a 26 point lead in the 2nd half of a game.- Now back to Mike, if Bron were 6/12 he would have by far the better record, hell even 6/7 beats 6/6 if the # of fMVPs are the same.

LeBron wasn't ready against Dallas. They played the perfect defense to take advantage of both Miami and LeBron's weaknesses

I slightly disagree, it wasn't so much what Dallas did as opposed to a mental choke job although they played him solid. The defense has been give more credit recently to take focus away from the choke

he didn't know how to respond. That's on him.

Thank you, glad we agree

 

[Recca Gatsby]

IMO... kinda... but not really

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Did any of his teammates do anything in college?

Dru Joyce became the starting point guard at Akron (Mid-America Conference), averaged 10 and 4 his senior year and is still playing in Europe.

Willie McGee went to a NCAA DII school but I don't think he really played

Romeo Travis became the starting forward at Akron, averaged 15 and 6 his senior year and also played for a while in Europe.

Sian Cotton went to OSU to play football but only got in four games.

Brandon Weems (one of the younger guys on the team) was a star guard in NAIA Division II level, later became a D1 assistant coach, and then joined the cavs as Director of Scouting

 

[ISO]

@THE MACHINE

LeBron didn’t cramp because of anxiety fool it was from fatigue and dehydration you trying playing that many minutes through high intensity playoff runs nikka had games going all 48

 

[THE MACHINE]

@THE MACHINE

LeBron didn’t cramp because of anxiety fool it was from fatigue and dehydration you trying playing that many minutes through high intensity playoff runs nikka had games going all 48

Mike didn't have high minutes and usage on his finals runs? That's what the debate is. Mike v Bron
Only during "high intensity playoff runs" as you stated. Same guy that froze up during Dallas right? Choking is a sign of anxiety right? But its not believable that he would have anxiety the next year in nearly the same circumstance?

2012 - I cant ignore the pressure of him having to deliver after what happened against Dallas the year before. That had to be on his mind. Just so happened to cramp up in a 90-90 pivotal game 4 with a 2-1 lead?? Same 2-1 lead they had against Dallas before they lost the series?? This was a grueling season though. It was condensed and they had a hard fought playoff run.

2014 - Miami was 12-3 coming into the Finals. That's a relatively "easy" road to the finals. And it was his fewest minutes per game in his playoff career (38.5). Tight game 86-84 and cramps pop up again? Nobody else cramped up in 87 degrees but the most physically gifted player on the court.

2018 - Pacers game 7 was the 1st round. Just so happened to cramp up in a tight game??

Never cramps up in playoffs when up/down by 20?
Never cramp issues during the meaningless regular season ever??
No cramps during hot summer Olympics or FIBA?
The man who spends millions on his body forgot to drink water during 3 separate playoff runs?? OK
Y'all don't want to admit its anxiety related.

 

[10bandz]

How did this thread turn into a stan debate the highlights in the OP are dope af that should be the end of it

 

[THE MACHINE]

How did this thread turn into a stan debate the highlights in the OP are dope af that should be the end of it

This might be the first Bron basketball thread to reach 100 replies and still be 5 stars. I'm pleasantly surprised.

 

[Cereal_Bowl_Assassin]

breh he was playing against 5'7 white boys.

.

So the ABCD camp had nothing but 5'7 white boys? Same with Oak Hill? St.vincent-st.mary didnt become the number one team in the country by playing 5'7 white boys

 

[THE MACHINE]

Dru Joyce became the starting point guard at Akron (Mid-America Conference), averaged 10 and 4 his senior year and is still playing in Europe.

Willie McGee went to a NCAA DII school but I don't think he really played

Romeo Travis became the starting forward at Akron, averaged 15 and 6 his senior year and also played for a while in Europe.

Sian Cotton went to OSU to play football but only got in four games.

Brandon Weems (one of the younger guys on the team) was a star guard in NAIA Division II level, later became a D1 assistant coach, and then joined the cavs as Director of Scouting

I think I saw Dru in the TBT tryna get that bag

edit: nah, it wasn't him

 

[smitty22]

How did this thread turn into a stan debate the highlights in the OP are dope af that should be the end of it

They all turn into a stan debate

 

[Curtis Nightfish]

So your avi is a blackface cartoon character pretending to be black and you're gonna talk that way to ME?

He PM'd me too to say the same thing he's so insecure about it.
.

at this c00n typing essays. "You gonna talk that way to me" who the fukk are you? Some internet no-money-getting troll.

fukk you

 

[FunkDoc1112]

Mike didn't have high minutes and usage on his finals runs? That's what the debate is. Mike v Bron
Only during "high intensity playoff runs" as you stated. Same guy that froze up during Dallas right? Choking is a sign of anxiety right? But its not believable that he would have anxiety the next year in nearly the same circumstance?

2012 - I cant ignore the pressure of him having to deliver after what happened against Dallas the year before. That had to be on his mind. Just so happened to cramp up in a 90-90 pivotal game 4 with a 2-1 lead?? Same 2-1 lead they had against Dallas before they lost the series?? This was a grueling season though. It was condensed and they had a hard fought playoff run.

2014 - Miami was 12-3 coming into the Finals. That's a relatively "easy" road to the finals. And it was his fewest minutes per game in his playoff career (38.5). Tight game 86-84 and cramps pop up again? Nobody else cramped up in 87 degrees but the most physically gifted player on the court.

2018 - Pacers game 7 was the 1st round. Just so happened to cramp up in a tight game??

Never cramps up in playoffs when up/down by 20?
Never cramp issues during the meaningless regular season ever??
No cramps during hot summer Olympics or FIBA?
The man who spends millions on his body forgot to drink water during 3 separate playoff runs?? OK
Y'all don't want to admit its anxiety related.

He cramped in the very first game of the 2012-2013 season and Brian Windhorst mentioned he's had problems cramping since high school, you just highlighted the only high profile cases of that shyt man.