Barkley Says LeBron Not Up There With Jordan and Kobe

[Sccit]

Correct me if my memory deceives me, but its only been this way since both their retirements, with a synonymous lining up with Bron's increasing resume and the constant need of Kobe heads to use Bron as their measure of comparison...

I remember both of their careers really well. In real time Duncan was seen as a cut above Kobe in their early careers, he walked in the door as an assassin and they were already starting "Greatest Of All Time" talk, as in where Duncan sat and where he was headed, after winning his second ring (and b2b regular season MVPs) in '03...

Kobe Bryant was in nobody's Greatest Of All Time discussions in the summer of 2003...

I don't remember if it was BSPN or something else but I remember after Duncan winning #3 in '05 there was a comp between he and Tom Brady as both had taken long treadmill franchises and turned them into dynasties...

Again I remember the dialogue of this time pretty vividly, the narratives on Kobe Bryant and Tim Duncan were not equal in 2005. And as I've said many times before, there was ZERO point in time while both were in their primes, that Kobe was viewed as a clear better basketball player than Duncan...

Kobe was more popular than Duncan and the most popular player in The League, and some people have always conflated his popularity with how high he should actually be regarded historically...

To my recollection it was the Comeback Kobe run that happened simultaneously as the Dynastic Spurs descended---because of Duncan's year over year decline---that started pushing Kobe up the ladder. For the bulk of Kobe's career he wasnt viewed as an equal to Shaq, either. And another thing I've said many times, the Comeback Kobe run rightfully elevated his stature...

Bron's ascent was happening roughly in this same period of time and we all remember to Kobe/Bron chop back then. But Point 3 that I've said many times, there wasn't this consensus opinion that Kobe was over Bron and there certainly wasn't that with Jordan----Kobe comps to Mike throughout his career were almost always based on play style and the NBA's infatuation with "the next Jordan" and Kobe being the most successful of all those "next Jordan" heirs...

There was no big talk at all on Kobe being better than Mike or an equal to Mike...

The hard thing to admit on this forum (Point #4), since this is such a pro-Kobe, anti-LeBron webspace, is once Bron's ascent really exploded, there became this rehashing of the Bron/Kobe thing, something that people had left behind a few years prior. There was this forced reimagining of Kobe as arguably THE greatest player ever once Bron truly realized his potential...

This is when the Kobe skipping over Duncan (and Shaq) shyt really got outta control. And this ain't directed at you, I know you're not comprehension deficient or illiterate, but this is when we saw it really taking off...

Kobe and Duncan are relative equals historically, but Duncan's case over Kobe is stronger than the reverse, and most basketball heads outside looney bin Kobe Stans and this board in general share the opinion that are relative historical equals...

Both are a step down from the Mike, Bron tier, and thats fine. They are both historical heavyweights in their own rights and are respected as such, muhfukkas don't need to make up, exaggerate, or conflate shyt to gerrymander Kobe Bryant into a level of esteem he didn't quite reach...

I’ll keep this short.

Kobe Bryant is without question the most popular and probably the most iconic basketball player since Michael Jordan.

In terms of the impact he’s had around the world…absolutely. People don’t use this term often in basketball but he’s arguably the premier ambassador for the game.

100%. Nobody else is there in terms of being beloved or as an inspiration.

Now put that aside from the actual performance and accomplishments and career on the court…others fared better.

But stans get in their feelings and claim hate. It’s tired and boring.

NOTHIN FUNNIER THAN 2 BASEBALL HEADS TRYNA CHOP IT UP BOUT BASKETBALL

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Duncan's career was better than Kobe's.

The way people just catapult him over Duncan into Jordan territory is stupid.

Most people don't. The majority of all-time lists stay putting Duncan over Kobe. Hierarchy among modern players is fairly clear:


Jordan: 5 MVPs, 3 second-place finishes
LeBron: 4 MVPs, 4 second-place finishes
Magic: 3 MVPs, 2 second-place finishes
Bird: 3 MVPs, 4 second-place finishes
Duncan: 2 MVPs, 2 second-place finishes
Shaq: 1 MVP, 1 second-place finish
Hakeem: 1 MVP, 1 second-place finish
Kobe: 1 MVP, 1 second-place finish


Jordan: 6 Finals MVPs, 6 titles as the best player on the team
LeBron: 4 Finals MVPs, 4 titles as the best player on the team
Magic: 3 Finals MVPs, 3 or 4 titles as the best player on the team
Bird: 3 Finals MVPs, 3 titles as the best player on the team
Duncan: 3 Finals MVPs, 4 or 5 titles as the best player on the team
Shaq: 3 Finals MVPs, 3 titles as the best player on the team
Hakeem: 2 Finals MVPs, 2 titles as the best player on the team
Kobe: 2 Finals MVPs, 2 titles as the best player on the team

 

[Jesus Is Lord]

Most people don't. The majority of all-time lists stay putting Duncan over Kobe. Hierarchy among modern players is fairly clear:


Jordan: 5 MVPs, 3 second-place finishes
LeBron: 4 MVPs, 4 second-place finishes
Magic: 3 MVPs, 2 second-place finishes
Bird: 3 MVPs, 4 second-place finishes
Duncan: 2 MVPs, 2 second-place finishes
Shaq: 1 MVP, 1 second-place finish
Hakeem: 1 MVP, 1 second-place finish
Kobe: 1 MVP, 1 second-place finish


Jordan: 6 Finals MVPs, 6 titles as the best player on the team
LeBron: 4 Finals MVPs, 4 titles as the best player on the team
Magic: 3 Finals MVPs, 3 or 4 titles as the best player on the team
Bird: 3 Finals MVPs, 3 titles as the best player on the team
Duncan: 3 Finals MVPs, 4 or 5 titles as the best player on the team
Shaq: 3 Finals MVPs, 3 titles as the best player on the team
Hakeem: 2 Finals MVPs, 2 titles as the best player on the team
Kobe: 2 Finals MVPs, 2 titles as the best player on the team

Where’s Kareem? You left him out, why? He has 6 MVPs.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Where’s Kareem? You left him out, why? He has 6 MVPs.

I didn't include Kareem, Wilt, or Russell cause I noted the list was "modern players", which for me is basically guys who started their careers after the merger. Kareem's got fantastic accolades and I have him in my top-3 but only one of his MVPs and Finals MVPs came after 1977. No hate, just trying to keep the comparisons as much like-to-like as possible.


I think it's a lot easier to compare modern players to each other than it is to figure out where Kareem, Wilt, and Russell rank among them (not to mention Big O, Cousy, Pettit, Mikan, etc.).

 

[Bolzmark]

All these different factors continuously debated about gets annoying and is unnecessary. Strength of teams, how many 'ships, personal stats, MVP's...throw all of that out the window.

I've seen Michael Jordan play. I've seen LeBron James play.

Michael Jordan is the better player.