Bernie and the Black Vote

tmonster

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Maybe black folk are just too numb to this
the numbness is not accidental
part of the problem is that the political class long ago stop being responsive, safe for the most pandering of opportunities, to the population, because we don't control their electability (this problem made epically worse by citizen's united) ; combine that with the voicelessness of an already marginalized group and you get a learned helplessness phenomenon
There are, for the black community particularly, solutions; but they are holistic, long term and may require things to get much worse before they are considered; Sanders would have been a good place to start but...
 

MrSinnister

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vote them out
There's that learned hopelessness :stopitslime:. We're like that dog, that waited so long for Obama, and he got us happy to be in the cage when we were about to blow it up. Then we started getting shocked in the cage....and eventually were just scared and sitting down, because we don't want to see if there's a worse feeling that the shock.

But don't worry, outside the White women we can fukk; Whites, Asian, and Latinos are creating a plan to end our suffering soon. I don't even see how no one helping BLM get the modest of police reforms, or indicting folks at least, is not foretelling to all these house negros. Maybe they're just happy they're not getting the guns aimed at them.:patrice:
 

No_bammer_weed

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Has there been a new poll on that labeling since the spring?

Nader didn't cost Gore 2000. Gore cost Gore 2000.

Qualitatively speaking this is a nice slogan that I suppose has some merit. Quantitatively speaking, the Nader vote absolutely handed the presidency to George Bush, and the results were disastrous. Black folks more than any other group paid the real world cost of republican "leadership" in the 2000s.

This country has been locked in far right wing inertia for decades. A socialist candidate from Vermont is a tough sell, and logically you must at least recognize this. If you're confident that the country will "feel the burn" in the general, and that Sanders will turn America into a scandinavian economy overnight by mesmerizing the house with his revolutionary mind control then so be it. I like Sanders, and I align much stronger with he than Clinton ideologically. Im not anti-Sanders.

Again, all my post was attempting to do was outline why others feel differently, and why they may be reluctant to throw their support behind Sanders. The point is that the popular racist theorem being bandied about: that blacks are mindlessly supporting clinton much to the expense of their interests because they are still under the sway of Bill Clinton playing the sax on Arsenio 25 years ago, makes my blood boil.
 

tmonster

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I don't get why people are looking at Sanders' candidacy as a 4-8 year thing
He is the symbol of a shift, maybe this year is not his time, he won't be the last voice, because the environment that the last 30-40 years has wrought demands it. Hilary/Trump, whoever you put in there will only push the situation in the same direction it has been going. The culture needs a correction, it does not start with better capitalism, it starts with much less of it and maybe even a complete 180 turn, before settling down to much less of it. There is a reason why a self avowed socialist has managed to be a real challenge to the good ole incumbent American capitalist apple pie narrative, as symbolized by the person of HRC. The way I see it, the rumblings are only beginning.
 
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Eternal Tecate

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Blacks are hardly "misinformed". The black vote has gotten every presidential hopeful right for decades. Were we better off with Dukakis or Bush Sr? Clinton or Bush Sr./Dole? Better off with Gore/Kerry or Bush Jr.? Better off with Obama or McCain/Romney? Odd that voters who are apparently so poorly informed are so consistently accurate in their selections.

While faith is important to black folks, our voting pattern clearly demonstrates that we distinguish our faith and social leanings from our vote. If not, then blacks would be hypnotized by the "party of Jesus", the GOP, and fall sway to the evangelical pandering of right wingers.

The black vote centers on economics, and is consistent with the global community who understand the importance of a strong social safety net and how it is an inequality suppressor and mobility stimulator. Black folks dont believe in tax cuts for the wealthy paying for themselves, and that wealth will trickle down if we give in to each and every demand of the ruling class. Blacks have voted against the body politic that has created such vast gulfs in wealth and power.

So then you ask, why arent black folks rallying around Sanders who promises to dismantle the system?

Black folks have 20/20 when it comes to common sense. Not idealism. Black folks understand that next to muslim, poll after poll suggests that the "socialist" label carries the highest negatives in the minds of the American voter when it comes to candidates. So how plausible is a Sanders presidency? If he emerged from the primaries, he would be very vulnerable to the republican offering. Are black folks willing to gamble?

On a somewhat smaller scale, this is what happened in 2000. Liberals went for the more ideologically pure option in Nader, and opened us to Bush who cratered the economy, sent black folks off to fight an illegal war, and allowed NYC to get blown up. Black folks dont want a liberal white savior, they just dont want to lose it all.

And even if Sanders did somehow manage to win the presidency...what then?? You think the republican house is going to cooperate with a socialist? The same group of jackals that shut down the govt. and fukked up our credit rating over centrist policies? How does Sanders address this? By saying nebulous, mythical nonsense about starting a "political revolution" within the house....How is this realistic?

The working theory here is that Sanders wins on the issues, but Clinton is the plausible candidate. Im not going to turn this post into a clinton commercial, but she's poised, experienced, can handle herself, and promises to continue the steady, stable leadership from the Obama admin. Her platforms have become more progressive and refined, she understand the national and global political game, and she has gone on record rejecting some of the policies of her husband that have resulted in anti-black consequences.

All Im saying is there are solid reasons to vote for Clinton in the minds of the voter, outside of the condescending racist explanations Ive read in this thread.

When it come to Sanders v Clinton is the Rolling Stones line: "Cant always get what you want..but if you try sometimes...you get what you need"

This is a good post but my question is, why would republicans be more likely to work with Hilary? It's not like Bernie hasn't already been a member of the government for years. Everyone in there is aware of him already.

I think once someone forces Bernie to defend socialism in a debate that'll be the deciding factor for how far the movement goes. Because if he comes back with a reasonable answer and people vibe with it he could change a lot of people's thinking.
 

Eternal Tecate

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I don't get why people are looking at Sanders candidacy as a 4-8 year thing
He is the symbol of a shift, maybe this year is not his time, he won't be the last voice, because the environment that the last 30-40 years has wrought demands it. Hilary/Trump, whoever you put in there will only push the situation in the same direction it has been going. The culture needs a correction, it does not start with better capitalism, it starts with much less of it and maybe even a complete 180 turn, before settling down to much less of it. There is a reason why a self avowed socialist has managed to be a real challenge to the good ole incumbent American capitalist apple pie narrative, as symbolized by the person of HRC. The way I see it, the rumblings are only beginning.

Ya. If Bernie doesn't get the nom then the next democratic candidate might be even farther left than socialist as a product of the bullshyt that will be continued if Hilary is elected.

I don't want to waste 4 more years.
 

wire28

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At what point do Bernie stans realize they're belittling the people they're trying to garner votes from?
never

Then put us on ignore and call it a day. It's Election season what do you expect? Also it gives a great insight to LEARN about ideologies and issues.
you arent capable of learning anything when you think you already know the answers. this thread is basically the bernie sanders circle jerk thread under a different name, like the rest of the threads on this first page

All Im saying is there are solid reasons to vote for Clinton in the minds of the voter, outside of the condescending racist explanations Ive read in this thread.
OP has to be white. Trying to find scientific reasons why black people wont vote for his political god.

When i saw the post you quoted i basically decided not to participate in this thread. This will be my only post in here.
 

MrSinnister

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never


OP has to be white. Trying to find scientific reasons why black people wont vote for his political god.

When i saw the post you quoted i basically decided not to participate in this thread. This will be my only post in here.
If OP is Black, you're essentially calling him a c00n :francis:. Like I said, you Hillary stans aren't intellectually honest or consistent people, but like your leader, you sure know how to call victim instead of actually debate. So let's take this full on ad hominem ghetto shyt again.
 

LurkMoar

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Qualitatively speaking this is a nice slogan that I suppose has some merit. Quantitatively speaking, the Nader vote absolutely handed the presidency to George Bush, and the results were disastrous. Black folks more than any other group paid the real world cost of republican "leadership" in the 2000s.

This country has been locked in far right wing inertia for decades. A socialist candidate from Vermont is a tough sell, and logically you must at least recognize this. If you're confident that the country will "feel the burn" in the general, and that Sanders will turn America into a scandinavian economy overnight by mesmerizing the house with his revolutionary mind control then so be it. I like Sanders, and I align much stronger with he than Clinton ideologically. Im not anti-Sanders.

Again, all my post was attempting to do was outline why others feel differently, and why they may be reluctant to throw their support behind Sanders. The point is that the popular racist theorem being bandied about: that blacks are mindlessly supporting clinton much to the expense of their interests because they are still under the sway of Bill Clinton playing the sax on Arsenio 25 years ago, makes my blood boil.



You probably don't want to go into the super Tuesday thread then :mjcry:
 

MrSinnister

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I say everyone who can't really argue issues, but ad hominem, put their cards on the table. You sound like little ass children, be cause you can't argue policy at all, because Hillary doesn't have any, and you're too lazy to look up past positions/votes.

Let's do a ban bet, and anyone who doesn't want to be a part, stay out of the threads of others, unless you're specifically debating policy or the actual discussion. No running to others threads and crying like bytches outside of the point. If Hillary wins the nomination, the Bernie stans are banned for 2 months and vice versa, because I know how people never want to admit they were wrong.

I have full faith in Bernie pulling this out, and I don't want to see the war of the Hillary stans, who can't even debate like adults now.
 
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