Biggie is/was the real blueprint for sellout/commercial rap that is still being made today
- Thread starter IllmaticDelta
- Start date
Life after death was an over rated sell out album that benefited from him dying.
Cheech&Chong
rip chinx
He was def a huge part in the commercial crossover. I don't see the love that big gets, he doesn't crack my top 20 and I don't see him in the top 10 goats, wich is diff from my personal 10, Its cuz he died, I saw a post saying no one said pac was their favorite till he died. Pac was killing shyt during his death row years. How is biggie the goat with one album while he was alive. (I don't care what anyone says, you know puff altered the shyt out of life after death) You could see the decline from ready to die to life after death, it woulda continued and he woulda took the same raod as jay where each album gets worse and worse.
TheDarceKnight
Veteran
You also can't blame Big for the shiny suit era when on LAD he was talking about kidnapping kids, fukking them, and killing them.
LAD had Somebody's Gotta Die, Kick In The Door, What's Beef, Last Day, N----s Bleed, Notorious Thugs, 10 Crack Commandments, My Downfall, Long Kidd Goodnight, and Nobody Till Somebody Kills You.
That's an album's worth of hard joints right there. That's not even counting joints that weren't street joints but still not bubblegum like Story to Tell, Sky's The Limit, I Love the Dough...
LAD is a well balanced album that has something for everyone. For sure Puff executive produced it wanting it to have hits and I could see it argued that it was one of the first "super produced" hip-hop albums that was architected to have "a girlie joint" a "posse joint" a "club joint", a "tunnel banger", a "storytelling joint", etc. So in that sense I can see why someone might call it a sellout album, but I just have a very specific definition of selling out. Big didn't compromise any artistic integrity on that album, and even the joints on there that I don't like I can appreciate for what they are.
LAD was a huge acquired taste for me. I wasn't a big fan of it when it first came out. But I think it's a classic album and a top 1-2 double album in hiphop history.
LAD had Somebody's Gotta Die, Kick In The Door, What's Beef, Last Day, N----s Bleed, Notorious Thugs, 10 Crack Commandments, My Downfall, Long Kidd Goodnight, and Nobody Till Somebody Kills You.
That's an album's worth of hard joints right there. That's not even counting joints that weren't street joints but still not bubblegum like Story to Tell, Sky's The Limit, I Love the Dough...
LAD is a well balanced album that has something for everyone. For sure Puff executive produced it wanting it to have hits and I could see it argued that it was one of the first "super produced" hip-hop albums that was architected to have "a girlie joint" a "posse joint" a "club joint", a "tunnel banger", a "storytelling joint", etc. So in that sense I can see why someone might call it a sellout album, but I just have a very specific definition of selling out. Big didn't compromise any artistic integrity on that album, and even the joints on there that I don't like I can appreciate for what they are.
LAD was a huge acquired taste for me. I wasn't a big fan of it when it first came out. But I think it's a classic album and a top 1-2 double album in hiphop history.
KRiLL (+)
Yo! Ho! Ho!
You Couldnt Help But Say The Name 2Pac Could You?
What Was Declining About Big? Cause The Stuff He Wrote On Life After & No Way Out Show ZERO Signs Of A Fall Off
Most overrated rapper ever
TheDarceKnight
Veteran
Phonte from Little Brother and Foreign Exchange had a whole piece on how IWW (and Biggie too) started the entire commercial and underground split.
This was a blog from his Myspace
'The three albums that 'killed' hip-hop
.....Notice 'killed' is in quotation marks, 'cause the shyt is still obviously alive...but yeah.....here's my theory.....and this is not a dis against any of these records, as I am a fan of all three, but just a theory on the way these albums
changed hip-hop forever...The Three Albums That "Killed" Hip-Hop
by Dr. Tigallonious Wolfgang Flowers III, M.D. B.A., MS, PhD, BS, LLC
1.Nas- "It Was Written"
Columbia Records
, 1996Rating: @@@@
When compared to the lackluster albums that came later in his career ("I Am," "Nastradamus"
To me, this is the album that is mostly responsible for the ridiculous "underground" v. "commericial" split in hip-hop. In the summer of '96 you had two artists, De La Soul
and Nas, who up until that point had a credible following in the "underground." Whereas De La continued in their left-field tradition with "Stakes Is High," Nas pulled a 180 and dropped "IWW." The result? "IWW" sold 2 million copies, and other "underground" MC's followed suit, often with disastrous results.It's not that "IWW" was a bad album, it was just an ugly foreshadowing of things to come. Although if you're gonna blame "IWW," its only fair to take a step back and place an even B.I.G.ger blame on the album that inspired it. Yep.....you guessed it......I'm talking about....
2. The Notorious B.I.G.- "Ready To Die"
Bad Boy/Arista Records, 1995
Rating: @@@@@
Although death is unquestionably the greatest promotional tool any artist could have, you'd be a fool to deny Biggie's place among the greats for fear of posthumously overrating him.
Dude had it all: charisma, intelligence, a knack for storytelling, and a melodious flow that is still imitated and mimicked to this day. (If there is any question as to whether or not Biggie has influenced any of today's MC's, just listen to ANY song from "Get Rich or Die Trying" and imagine Biggie doing the hook instead. Scary ain't it?)
In addition to his talents as an MC, Biggie also had Puffy behind the boards (or shyt, BESIDE the boards to let a Hitman tell it....). While Puff may not have been the traditional hands-on hip hop
producer, homeboy understood one simple thing: how to make HIT ****ING RECORDS.The thing that was so amazing about "RTD" was Biggie's ability to do a radio joint like "Juicy" or "One More Chance" without sounding forced or gimmicky. He could go from "Warning" to "Big Poppa" and not miss a step. His personality and charisma held it all together. Even Nas, for all his 80's loops and blatantly commercial aspirations on "IWW," simply could not compete with Biggie's natural charm as an MC. This was the simple fact that many MC's who unsuccessfully tried to duplicate "RTD's" formula (see: Mic Geronimo) failed to realize.
So Nas is making love songs, and Biggie is looping up disco. Where did the average head looking for some "true" hip-hop seek refuge? Even deeper "underground," of course.........
3. Company Flow- "Funcrusher Plus"
Official Recordings, 1997
Rating: @@@ anna half
The backpack generation is born.
I must admit that when I first heard "FP" I was alternately repulsed and amazed. The three-man team of El-P, Big Juss, and DJ Mr. Len made an album that was dirty, distorted, and "indy as fukk."
The thing I admired most about "FP," and many other El-P associated projects, was that it had BALLS:
"What'chu mean a sitar loop ain't hip-hop? fukkTHAT!!!!"
("Fire In Which You Burn"
"What'chu mean these horns in the hook are offbeat and mixed too loud?" fukk THAT!!!!!!"
("Krazy Kings"
This was not sweet, soulful music that you could play at your family reunion. This was music to piss your girlfriend off. Music to self-destruct to. And it worked.
With the release of "FP," Company Flow earned a cult following AND critical acclaim with 3.5 mics in the Source. Suddenly, a new breed of MC was born. Nerdy white boys had a place in hip hop. I can just imagine what must've been said at those A&R meetings:
"So you can't dance? Cool."
"You don't want to actually rhyme ON BEAT? No problem."
"You want to produce yourself even though you just bought an MPC, like, 2 weeks ago? Fabulous! You're UNDERGROUND, baby!!!!!"
Eventually, crews like Anticon, Rhymesayers, and even El-P's own Def Jux (RJD2 nonwithstanding....), came to symbolize "underground" hip-hop, or as most heads referred to it: "that backpacker shyt." As a result, cats like Mos Def, The Roots, and Talib Kweli were running to work with "commericial" acts like Jay-Z, Jadakiss, and Kanye West
in an attempt to distance themselves from a movement in which they were unfairly lumped in.The end result?
Hip-hop became even more polarized and the music, sadly enough on both sides of the spectrum, grew even wacker.
Yall cant blame rappers on major labels for droppin the commercial shyt they do... Come on now, music at BIGs level is a business n not a
Hobbie
Hip hop went commercial not because of biggie, puffy, ll, or nas
It went pop because rappers started pushin plat n the label exces started (businessmen) gettin involved in the creative process to exploit the music and make it as profitable as they could, it was they fukkin job
When viacoms companies push an artist or a song n u hear the same song every fukkin hour on radio or tv its because businessmen had their hand in that song gettin there, nothings free in this world
Hobbie
Hip hop went commercial not because of biggie, puffy, ll, or nas
It went pop because rappers started pushin plat n the label exces started (businessmen) gettin involved in the creative process to exploit the music and make it as profitable as they could, it was they fukkin job
When viacoms companies push an artist or a song n u hear the same song every fukkin hour on radio or tv its because businessmen had their hand in that song gettin there, nothings free in this world
Cheech&Chong
rip chinx
Ready to Die is a top 10 album, LAD was great but you could see him going commercial, and it woulda got more commercial with every album. Not a problem with me, not even somthing negative. Just agreeing with the OP. I brought up 2pac cuz I was talking about rappers blowing up after they die, why you mad?
Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
Funk was the original basis sonically of all rap records, originally.
Pfunk was not a new direction sonically.
Nor, was it introduced by west coast acts originally.
Not to mention, epmd were already the staple artist in rap using pfunk almost exclusively well before DRE.
Plus, nwa featured and epmd featured in early vids together as well.
So, you could say Erick sermon actually may have influenced dre's and ice cubes lench mob(del) direction as a draw, sonically.
By the time, del and dre were motivated.
To use pfunk sonically as a direction.
Art Barr
Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
Biggie and all mca legacy artist somehow constructed a pass system.
That began because of Andre Harrell sentimentalism as a former rush brand associate.
All, mca artist somehow created a pass system.
to sellout and still be a relevant draw and above full cultural and artistic scrutiny.
It was not till nas sold out, on iww.
The cultural direction and rubrick of the last knights of the styles era of hip hop.
Who held off and kept the culture intact.
From sinking into complete ruin of rap as a draw, from vanilla ice/hammer.
Art Barr
If they were on mca,..
They were selling out.
Or, sold out in some form or fashion.
That began because of Andre Harrell sentimentalism as a former rush brand associate.
All, mca artist somehow created a pass system.
to sellout and still be a relevant draw and above full cultural and artistic scrutiny.
It was not till nas sold out, on iww.
The cultural direction and rubrick of the last knights of the styles era of hip hop.
Who held off and kept the culture intact.
From sinking into complete ruin of rap as a draw, from vanilla ice/hammer.
Art Barr
If they were on mca,..
They were selling out.
Or, sold out in some form or fashion.
Axum Ezana
Driving in the fast lane
That entire formula on the getting fly/playa/pimp mixed with street hustler, started on Ready To Die which I consider classic but somewhat "poppy" and developed more on Life After Death which I consider commercial as fuk w/ a ton of filler for the most part. Puff took the same formula into the shiny suit era (Biggie was already heading that way) while Jay-z used it to great effect when he made Vol 2. This style birthed the commercialism/content of Cash Money Records/similar Southern acts and later 50cent on GRODT and the Massacre.
I don't know how Biggie gets away with the blatant pop/commercialism of Ready To Die and LAD with only Puff taking blame for the shiny suit era. Nas got heat from the media for "If I Ruled The World" while spitting heat/dropping gems and Big got love for "One More Chance" which was lowgrade in content and r&B as fuk
cause the fake east-west beef.
u cant talk shyt bout the person who u use as ur main arguing point.
plus mix the nostalgia with obvious biased views and u see why.
plus big liked doing that ruff hardcore shyt, one of the main reasons puff wanted to split pac/big up, from thug life.
so yeah puff deserves more blame but big went along with it.
plus i believe real african american hip hop was doomed anyways because old acts depended on racist mtv/record labels to push/promote an afro-centric/militant/knowledgeble message to the same black youth they(gov) are trying to destroy.
IllmaticDelta
Veteran
Funky drummer funk not, synth-electro funk. This is evident in the music bboys (east) and funkstylers (west) prefer to dance to
The way the west crafted it was distinct
EPMD doesn't sound G-Funkish though
