Black Nationalist Thought Experiment

[Starman]

This thread is for Black Nationalists, or those curious about it. For the purpose of this thread, Black Nationalism is the belief that there should be a sovereign ADOS/Black Nation created on American soil.

Details:

Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida are now a single ADOS state. That's 258,049 square miles. That's bigger than France. There's access to the Gulf of Mexico, and the Atlantic.

The numbers say there are about 44 million of us, although I don't know if that counts Black immigrants.

For the purpose of the experiment, White America will not attack Black America.

Questions:

How liberal would our immigration policy be? Would the quality of life be any better than any other Black country in the New World? Or any other Black country on the planet? What would be our policy towards crime and punishment? Drugs and alcohol? What would we trade? What would we build? How would we govern?

This thread is not sedition, FBI. It's merely a thought experiment to determine the viability of ADOS/Black separation.

 

[Starman]

Assuming Black support of Democrats is some indication of our beliefs and not just a reaction to Republican racism, Black America would...

Be pro immigration, favor a larger social safety net, be anti gun, and be more liberal on crime.

Do these things change if we govern ourselves?

 

[Starman]

Did I miss something? Is Black Nationalism dead?

 

[motion order]

Questions:

How liberal would our immigration policy be? Would the quality of life be any better than any other Black country in the New World? Or any other Black country on the planet? What would be our policy towards crime and punishment? Drugs and alcohol? What would we trade? What would we build? How would we govern?

Good thread concept

There has been plenty of talk of reparations and tangibles in recent years. How, reparations without separation, as you have lined out, is pointless. Never in history has the oppressor gave true liberation to his once oppressed within the confines of that same sovereign State. So reparations while still remaining in The United States, is basically the difference between being given croutons as opposed to crumbs.

These is also a lot of anti-capitalism talk amongst certain circles in the Black community. However, what you're describing would be an intensely capitalistic endeavor, and would incorporate much of the maligned concept of "pulling ourselves up by our boot straps."

As per some of your questions:

The Black American, in this new sovereign State, would need a good 20 to 25 years to properly and sufficiently established itself before opening its borders to any form of mass immigration. It must first legitimize itself, and become globally viable, before it begins to loosen its borders. The relative quality of life would be contingent on the efficacy of the self-determination of this newly established State.

Nothing functions properly without order. So the disorder that inherently comes with and from, crime, drugs, alcohol, etc... cannot be dealt with in any casual or nonchalant manner. This is also a general moral issue, which once again is fought against by a certain contingency of Black people that use the term, "respectability politics." (as if common decency and a rejection of filth and self-destructive behavior should ever be politicized)

Farmland, agriculture, animal husbandry, are the foundation and ultimately the engine that will drive this new State's economy. This is how the new State will feed and clothe itself. I know a few years back, Mississippi had thousands of acres of cotton fields for sale. Though the irony of cotton plantations and a new Black American State is not lost, this would be essential in the State's self-sufficiency, and propelling it's economy forward.

Assuming Black support of Democrats is some indication of our beliefs and not just a reaction to Republican racism, Black America would...

Do these things change if we govern ourselves?

If Black America established a new independent State, it would have to free itself from the confines of the binary paradigm of America's current political structure. This is a major step towards a true and complete mental freedom and mental separation from the former slavemasters.

 

[Starman]

There has been plenty of talk of reparations and tangibles in recent years. How, reparations without separation, as you have lined out, is pointless.

Reparations has found new life in our current discourse, but Black Nationalism seems to have died somewhere along the way. Even if some people think it is necessary.

I do think it will make a comeback soon, however. Whether we're ready or not.

These is also a lot of anti-capitalism talk amongst certain circles in the Black community. However, what you're describing would be an intensely capitalistic endeavor, and would incorporate much of the maligned concept of "pulling ourselves up by our boot straps."

It's the bootstrapiest endeavor I could imagine. Look around the world and count the nation's you'd want to live in. For everyone one of those there are four or five we'd avoid like the plague. It's incredibly difficult to build a country you want to live in.

The Black American, in this new sovereign State, would need a good 20 to 25 years to properly and sufficiently established itself before opening its borders to any form of mass immigration. It must first legitimize itself, and become globally viable, before it begins to loosen its borders.

Agreed. The way Blacks vote for immigration now, wouldn't translate directly in a Black State.

Also, until the state more prosperous than where the immigrants are coming from, there wouldn't be a lot of people who want to migrate there anyway. Immigration is often a financial move.

The relative quality of life would be contingent on the efficacy of the self-determination of this newly established State.

Right. There's no way of knowing, but the quality of life of such a state, if it's like most of the other countries in this hemisphere, would be a step down from the US. At least initially. And I don't know how big of a step down. I can't help think that most of us aren't built for a downgrade in quality of life. Even if I think it could be worth it.

Farmland, agriculture, animal husbandry, are the foundation and ultimately the engine that will drive this new State's economy. This is how the new State will feed and clothe itself. I know a few years back, Mississippi had thousands of acres of cotton fields for sale. Though the irony of cotton plantations and a new Black American State is not lost, this would be essential in the State's self-sufficiency, and propelling it's economy forward.

These skills are vital, and by and large we've lost them.


I think it was Yvette Carnell who brough spoke on all the black farm land that's been lost over the last hundred years. Messed me up.

Edit: I'm interested in serious Black Nationalists, so if you know any please post them. No Umar.

 

[Ya' Cousin Cleon]

Florida is too Latino, I'd axe that one off.

 

[Wildhundreds]

Like Elijah Muhammad spoke of, we need to learn about self, then get self out of the eay of the whole... Anything is possible after that

 

[brick james]

Good thread concept

There has been plenty of talk of reparations and tangibles in recent years. How, reparations without separation, as you have lined out, is pointless. Never in history has the oppressor gave true liberation to his once oppressed within the confines of that same sovereign State. So reparations while still remaining in The United States, is basically the difference between being given croutons as opposed to crumbs.

These is also a lot of anti-capitalism talk amongst certain circles in the Black community. However, what you're describing would be an intensely capitalistic endeavor, and would incorporate much of the maligned concept of "pulling ourselves up by our boot straps."

As per some of your questions:

The Black American, in this new sovereign State, would need a good 20 to 25 years to properly and sufficiently established itself before opening its borders to any form of mass immigration. It must first legitimize itself, and become globally viable, before it begins to loosen its borders. The relative quality of life would be contingent on the efficacy of the self-determination of this newly established State.

Nothing functions properly without order. So the disorder that inherently comes with and from, crime, drugs, alcohol, etc... cannot be dealt with in any casual or nonchalant manner. This is also a general moral issue, which once again is fought against by a certain contingency of Black people that use the term, "respectability politics." (as if common decency and a rejection of filth and self-destructive behavior should ever be politicized)

Farmland, agriculture, animal husbandry, are the foundation and ultimately the engine that will drive this new State's economy. This is how the new State will feed and clothe itself. I know a few years back, Mississippi had thousands of acres of cotton fields for sale. Though the irony of cotton plantations and a new Black American State is not lost, this would be essential in the State's self-sufficiency, and propelling it's economy forward.


If Black America established a new independent State, it would have to free itself from the confines of the binary paradigm of America's current political structure. This is a major step towards a true and complete mental freedom and mental separation from the former slavemasters.

Why do all nationalists feel that way about the bolded, even going so far as to use similar language? The criminalization of recreational drug use just makes common citizens enemies of the state, for no apparent reason. Legislating morality never works, and leads to an repressive authoritarian government.

 

[motion order]

Why do all nationalists feel that way about the bolded?

Because nothing functions properly and efficiently without order.

The criminalization of recreational drug use just makes common citizens enemies of the state,

If the inability to use drugs recreationaly would keep a Black person from, or make them hesitant about, joining on to their own sovereign State, which means no longer being ruled by the whiteman; I think that person needs to put things in proper perspective, and reflect on the content of their character.

Just the word "recreation" itself needs to be looked at. Black people would be BUILDING a new Nation, that means there will be A LOT OF WORK to do. If one of the primary things on one's mind is "recreation," let alone recreational drug use, they can always choose to stay with the whiteman in America. Let the Nationalists, that are dedicated to freedom justice and equality, building something for self, and establishing a civilization, work with clear minds and in peace.

Legislating morality never works, and leads to an repressive authoritarian government.

None of us have ever experienced what it's like for Black people to rule over ourselves. To automatically assume that we would rule each other the same way the whiteman has ruled over us, is just another symptom, or manifestation, of mental enslavement. The manner in which the whiteman handles his affairs is not the only option. And history has shown that it us far from the best.

 

[Starman]

Why do all nationalists feel that way about the bolded, even going so far as to use similar language? The criminalization of recreational drug use just makes common citizens enemies of the state, for no apparent reason. Legislating morality never works, and leads to an repressive authoritarian government.

I'm looking for polling on this issue, but the educated Black people I hang around think like you do. At least when it comes to weed and "lesser" drugs.

If one of the primary things on one's mind is "recreation," let alone recreational drug use, they can always choose to stay with the whiteman in America.

Nah, the White man doesn't want them. We're all in this one together. We have to sort out our policies the same way every other nation does.

 

[George's Dilemma]

Question, or maybe two. I've never seen Black Nationalism defined as the belief of a separate Black nation with defined borders within the United States. Do you have any links from self identified Black Nationalists who've expressed the desire to see this idea come to fruition? I'm curious to see their thoughts on the matter.

I've seen White Nationalists with this idea for years. The Pacific Northwest has long been a goal as the ideal location for an exclusively white homeland. That's partly the reason why there's so many of them in Washington state. I've come across maps like the following throughout the years as well. This taken from the ADL captured from GAB.

 

[Starman]

Question, or maybe two. I've never seen Black Nationalism defined as the belief of a separate Black nation with defined borders within the United States.

What kind of Black Nationalism have you seen? Return to Africa? Or something else?

Do you have any links from self identified Black Nationalists who've expressed the desire to see this idea come to fruition? I'm curious to see their thoughts on the matter.

Benjamin "Pap" Singleton - Wikipedia

The largest group that espouses separatism is the Nation of Islam.

Separatism[edit]
In an April 13, 1997, interview on NBC's Meet the Press, Tim Russert asked Farrakhan to explain the Nation of Islam's view on separation:

Tim Russert: "Once a week, on the back page [of your newspaper] is The Muslim Program, 'What the Muslims Want' [written in 1965]. The first is in terms of territory, 'Since we cannot get along with them in peace and equality, we believe our contributions to this land and the suffering forced upon us by white America justifies our demand for complete separation in a state or territory of our own.' Is that your view in 1997, a separate state for Black Americans?"

Minister Louis Farrakhan: "First, the program starts with number one. That is number four. The first part of that program is that we want freedom, a full and complete freedom. The second is, we want justice. We want equal justice under the law, and we want justice applied equally to all, regardless of race or class or color. And the third is that we want equality. We want equal membership in society with the best in civilized society. If we can get that within the political, economic, social system of America, there's no need for point number four. But if we cannot get along in peace after giving America 400 years of our service and sweat and labor, then, of course, separation would be the solution to our race problem."[5

Black separatism - Wikipedia

There are smaller Black separatist (The more accurate name for what we're discussing) groups, but there is no doubt the idea has fallen out of favor. I wonder why. I can only hope it's because Blacks have concluded that the ideal situation for us is to exist in a predominantly White country...But I doubt it.

I've seen White Nationalists with this idea for years. The Pacific Northwest has long been a goal as the ideal location for an exclusively white homeland. That's partly the reason why there's so many of them in Washington state. I've come across maps like the following throughout the years as well. This taken from the ADL captured from GAB.

I expect separatism to increase in popularity. It's happening in other parts of the world, what makes America with it's racial diversity and political strife so different?

 

[George's Dilemma]

What kind of Black Nationalism have you seen? Return to Africa? Or something else?

Mostly when I've read about Black nationalism, it had more to do with Black solidarity and an economic system not dependent on others. I've never seen it identified as you put it in the OP, as it being defined as the belief of a separate homeland.

There are smaller Black separatist (The more accurate name for what we're discussing) groups, but there is no doubt the idea has fallen out of favor. I wonder why. I can only hope it's because Blacks have concluded that the ideal situation for us is to exist in a predominantly White country...But I doubt it.

Yeah, this is what I was getting at. The more accurate idea in this thread would be Black separatism, which could fall under the category of Black Nationalism, but it would be inappropriate to define Black Nationalism as such.

And yeah, the NOI came to mind when I read your OP initially. I remember reading about them buying farmland and whites sabotaging their efforts back in the 70s. Poisoning their livestock, contaminating the water, etc..

Thanks for the link on Benjamin Singleton.

 

[brick james]

Because nothing functions properly and efficiently without order.

If the inability to use drugs recreationaly would keep a Black person from, or make them hesitant about, joining on to their own sovereign State, which means no longer being ruled by the whiteman; I think that person needs to put things in proper perspective, and reflect on the content of their character.

Just the word "recreation" itself needs to be looked at. Black people would be BUILDING a new Nation, that means there will be A LOT OF WORK to do. If one of the primary things on one's mind is "recreation," let alone recreational drug use, they can always choose to stay with the whiteman in America. Let the Nationalists, that are dedicated to freedom justice and equality, building something for self, and establishing a civilization, work with clear minds and in peace.


None of us have ever experienced what it's like for Black people to rule over ourselves. To automatically assume that we would rule each other the same way the whiteman has ruled over us, is just another symptom, or manifestation, of mental enslavement. The manner in which the whiteman handles his affairs is not the only option. And history has shown that it us far from the best.

Almost every single drug, from alcohol to ketamine to ayuahuasca to ecstasy to mushrooms to marijuana has shown therapeutic benefits. There are plenty of mind altering substances that help us with everything from surgery to the treatment of mental illness.

Drawing an arbitrary distinction between one set of chemicals, and an another set of chemicals, based on Christian values from the 40's and 50's is ridiculous. All ancient cultures experimented with mother nature, and alcohol dates back to ancient mesopotamia. If anything banning and stigmatizing drugs is some whiteman shyt.

Further more, developing the type of government institutions that need to enforce archaic drug laws is going to create the same perpetual underclass that plagues America.

Socially speaking, if you banned, and enforced a strict ban on alcohol, marijuana, and other recreational drugs, it's going to be just you and 5000 other sober people.

On the coli, you'll barely be able to get 20 people to go on this sober journey with you.

 

[brick james]

I'm looking for polling on this issue, but the educated Black people I hang around think like you do. At least when it comes to weed and "lesser" drugs.

All dangerous substances need to be regulated. There are a ton of these that also get you high as fukk, like fentanyl, and powerful anesthetics. Banning them, and not using the latest chemical compounds to improve the quality of life for everyone would be ridiculous, so the question only becomes when and how should they be regulated. If I invented a drug that made us trip balls for 3 weeks and cured cancer, obviously it would be legal and welcomed into ANY sane society.

So if anyone says we should ban all substances used recreationally, then I guess they're going to come after caffeine and nicotine next? And then come after chocolate next? And then they're going to try to control sex because we wouldn't want too much natural serotonin production? The line between medical necessity and recreation is very, very blurry.

I think the answer is probably that society should take drugs on a case by case basis and lean on the side of personal responsibility, because enforcing the drug laws is probably the scariest part of any anti drug policy.