Black People need to dead this "P.O.C./Intersectionality" bullsh1t.

[King Kreole]

seems non-gendered to me.



30 per of 13 and 37 per of 12 is not analogous to this dumb shyt.

I'm out.

 

[emerald]

 

[Absalom's Thought]

.

 

[Lewis Black]

@Poitier with another mvp performance smh

 

[ahdsend]

Exactly. The thought process other minorities have in america is pretty much "Yeah, I'm not white but I'm happy I'm not black".

It just bugs me how they're welcomed in our communities with open arms, but we're not welcomed in theres.

Case in point, look at how black people are getting beat up and killed in India and how racist parts of Asia are to blacks.

Garvey said it best...



http://www.thecoli.com/threads/message-to-the-people-the-course-of-african-philosophy.188162

Black Nationalism

The culmination of all the efforts of the U.N.I.A. must end in Negro independent nationalism on the continent of Africa. That is to say, everything must contribute toward the final objective of having a powerful nation for the Negro race. Negro nationalism is necessary. It is political power and control.

No race is free until it has a strong nation of its own; its own system of government and its own order of society. Never give up this idea. Let no one persuade you against it. It is the only protection for your generation and your race. Hold on to the idea of an independent government and nation as long as other men have them.

Never be satisfied to always live under the government of other people because you will always be at their mercy. Visualize for yourself and your children and generations unborn, your own king, emperor, president, your own government officials and administrators, who look like you.

Never confuse your ideas about Negro nationality with that of other peoples, so as to think that their nationality is good enough for you.

Never think that if Japan gains control of the world, they will treat you better than Anglo-Saxons or Latins. Don't think that if the Chinese or Indians get control of the world your position will be better. All other races and nations will use you just the same; as slaves and underdogs.

Therefore, your only protection is to have your own government. Don't encourage Negroes to join Japanese, Chinese, Indian or any other movements; with the hope of getting greater freedom. They will never get it, because all peoples want all things for themselves.

Explain this thoroughly and sufficiently so as to discourage ignorant Negroes from thinking otherwise. You should teach Negroes to have pride in their own nationality and teach them not to try and wear garments that typify membership in other nationalities. It is ridiculous and people laugh at them for doing so. Teach Negroes to look for honor in their own race and nation for such honors.

Any honors they can get from any other race serving that race they can get from serving their own race. Therefore, don't waste time in that. You can have your own king, emperor, pope, duke, your own everything. Therefore, don't bow down to other races for recognition.

When you have honored your own men and women, recognize that honor before the whole world to let the world know that you honored your own. If the world laughs at those you have honored; ask them if they want you to laugh at those they honored. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. If they laugh, laugh at them.

 

[Prince Mongo]

Western blacks have pretty much wholesale adopted white ideological roots. There is no meaningful distinction between white men and black men w/r/t intra-racial gender relations.

Here y'all go with these talking points ripped straight from something else you've read on the internet instead of real life observations. Are you even black, from America, or live around other black folks?

The black community in America is very much matriarchal. If you've EVER lived in a black neighborhood in America, you'd clearly see this. And this phenomenon exist for several pretty obvious reasons. Social programs that only benefit women without a partner in their homes, mass incarceration of black men, absenteeism within the home itself, ect. These are things you'd say are obvious truths if you were a black person in America

Lets just be real, it doesn't sound like anything you posted in this thread came from an original thought. It just seems like shyt you're repeating from some feminist Tumblr page

 

[Unknown Poster]

Here y'all go with these talking points ripped straight from something else you've read on the internet instead of real life observations. Are you even black, from America, or live around other black folks?

The black community in America is very much matriarchal. If you've EVER lived in a black neighborhood in America, you'd clearly see this. And this phenomenon exist for several pretty obvious reasons. Social programs that only benefit women without a partner in their homes, mass incarceration of black men, absenteeism within the home itself, ect. These are things you'd say are obvious truths if you were a black person in America

Lets just be real, it doesn't sound like anything you posted in this thread came from an original thought. It just seems like shyt you're repeating from some feminist Tumblr page

I've stopped reading his posts. He's hiding his lack of knowledge about this situation through liberal arts college terms.

 

[010101]

everybody loves me*

 

[mbewane]

Won't talk about dynamics within the US, but never heard anyone talk about intersectionality in an African or European context

 

[godkiller]

I've stopped reading his posts. He's hiding his lack of knowledge about this situation through liberal arts college terms.

He has yet to reply to my posts.This buffoon @King Kreole is nothing more than a charlatan and polemic. He really believes that Ancient Egypt wasn't patriarchical. The same Egypt whose supreme leader was the Pharaoh, a male patriarch. In other words, the Ancient Egyptians didn't even allow female rulers, only men.

 

[Rarebird77]

I, in fact, did not. Disproportionate =/= solely. Men are victims of sex abuse as well, just not nearly at the same rate.


Again, disproportionate means more or less than equal. So trusting @Poitier stats are correct, black women are 30% of all incarcerated women, and 13% of the female population. Black men are about 37% of incarcerated men, yet 12% of the population. Ergo, disproportion. Not once did I say black women don't have an incarceration problem. In fact, I explicitly said that it's one of the issues that both genders share. My point is that the issues that disproportionately affect females don't get as much airtime as those disproportionately affecting males.


Again, no. I said that sex abuse is an issue that is disproportionately affecting women, and since women are a majority of the black population, I found it odd that it's nowhere near as big an issue as criminal justice reform, which has a distinctly black male face EVEN THOUGH IT AFFECTS WOMEN TOO! In fact, your insistence on incarceration being a big problem for black women as well strengthens my point. How come women are not considered to be on the forefront of this issue as much. We all hear about 1 in 3 black men, but we never hear about 1 in 4 black women.


I don't know any feminist saying that sex harassment is the main issue facing women and black women. Most feminists efforts I know of are aimed at reproductive rights or economic equality.

I'm not dismissing your voice, I welcome your perspective.

And do any of those feminist who are fighting ever state that most White women are paid more than most Black men doing the same job?

And that most White women are paid more than Black women?

The Workforce Is Even More Divided by Race Than You Think

Like I said racism matters more to me.

Reproductive rights are health care issues. Most poor people with lack of healthcare access have less access to not only to abortion but also to birth control.

At that, and poor black women have more abortions than anyone. I'm very wary of a group calling abortion a right while younger black women outpace all others in abortions when that same group, planned parenthood is founded by a eugenicist.

I'm not a pro-lifer either but . ..

Abortion's Racial Gap

An African-American woman is almost five times likelier to have an abortion than a white woman, and a Latina more than twice as likely, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

 

[godkiller]

Here y'all go with these talking points ripped straight from something else you've read on the internet instead of real life observations. Are you even black, from America, or live around other black folks?

The black community in America is very much matriarchal. If you've EVER lived in a black neighborhood in America, you'd clearly see this. And this phenomenon exist for several pretty obvious reasons. Social programs that only benefit women without a partner in their homes, mass incarceration of black men, absenteeism within the home itself, ect. These are things you'd say are obvious truths if you were a black person in America

Lets just be real, it doesn't sound like anything you posted in this thread came from an original thought. It just seems like shyt you're repeating from some feminist Tumblr page

 

[King Kreole]

I was actually about to edit/delete my post (still might do it) because no matter how benign my intent might be, somehow, my objection to certain narratives comes off as hatred or aversion/anger towards women. It seems that way even when I myself read it back. This is not the case. I have no objections whatsoever to female desire for greater autonomy and self-determination. Nor are there any objections to their legitimate grievances regarding hostile male behaviour.

That's nice.

Now with regards to your post, there is little here to buttress your argument, if anything at all. Yes, all societies of any regard have ultimately been the crown achievement of men, and their success or failure has always been dependent on those same men's level of productivity and foresight. Ancient Egypt was not patriarchal? What makes you say this? It might be the constant barrage of nonsense being attached to the term/concept. Patriarchy itself is a pretty amoral thing; it's not evil old Adam keeping women in the bondage of the kitchen; it simply means that men have considerably greater decision making power, authority, control of property over women. That is true for the vast majority of cultures present or past. So now Matrilineality is evidence of Matriarchy or non-Patriarchy? Patriarchal societies can be matrilineal (I would even hazard that most matrilineal societies are also Patriarchal); the very Jews, who are part of this Judeo-Christian Patriarchy coalition of yours, check both designations. Women were not dominant in anything; in certain societies they are afforded certain inheritance rights because this same evil Patriarchy recognises their greater vulnerability.

No, the success or failure of all societies of any regard has not been dependent on the productivity of solely men. If all the women en masse stopped being productive, society would crumble regardless of the productivity of men.

You're right that the definition of patriarchy isn't codified, so there's room for discussion, but as for Ancient Egypt, I consider a society that has equal legal, economic and social rights for women to be non-patriarchal. Using your own definition, Ancient Egypt would not count as a patriarchy as women had control of property, were in positions of authority as members of the priestly class and influential and recognized members of the Royal court (most obviously as female pharaohs), and had equal social decision making power as men:

"In ancient Egyptian society, women were treated differently than women of other ancient societies. Ancient Egyptian society offered women the greatest opportunities of the Mediterranean societies in relation to their economic, legal, and social positions. They enjoyed the same legal, economic and social rights as Egyptian men. Even though the primary source evidence is limited, it is still possible to use evidence found in temples, tombs on monuments, artwork and surviving texts to establish the role of women in Egyptian society." Source - Women in Ancient Egyptian Society

"Throughout written history, women have experienced status subservient to the men they lived with. Generally, most cultures known to modern historians followed a standard pattern of males assigned the role of protector and provider while women were assigned roles of domestic servitude. Scholars speculate endlessly at the cause: biology, religion, social custom. Nevertheless, the women were always subordinated to the men in their culture. Through their artwork, tomb inscriptions, and papyrus and leather scrolls, preserved in the dry, desert air, Ancient Egyptians left evidence for scholars suggesting that Egypt was once a peculiar exception to this pattern. Anthropological evidence suggests that unusual circumstances in Ancient Egyptian culture provided for women to be given equal status to their male counterparts: notably, matrilineal inheritance and emphasis on the joy of family life over maintaining ethnic purity." Source - http://schoolworkhelper.net/development-of-ancient-egyptian-patriarchy/

"Egyptian women were fortunate in two important ways:

1. While women could become Pharaoh only in very special circumstances, they were otherwise regarded as totally equal to men as far as the law was concerned. They could own property, borrow money, sign contracts, initiate divorce, appear in court as a witness, etc. Of course, they were also equally subject to whatever responsibilities normally accompanied those rights.
2. Love and emotional support were considered to be important parts of marriage. Egyptians loved children as people and not just as potential workers and care-takers." - Source: Women in Ancient Egypt

"An exception to most other ancient societies, Egyptian women achieved parity with Egyptian men. They enjoyed the same legal and economic rights, at least in theory, and this concept can be found in Egyptian art and contemporary manuscripts. The disparities between people's legal rights were based on differences in social class and not on gender. Legal and economic rights were afforded to both men and women." Source - The Role of Women in Ancient Egypt

Patriarchy doesn't have to be some brutal abuse on women, it's about them not being given equal consideration under the law, and socially being deemed a subservient class of citizen. I agree that it has been far more prevalent than non-patriarchy, my point was that it was not the sole model, and therefore is not necessary. I would have a hard time considering a society in which women are the sole gender through which property is passed down to be patriarchal. You yourself identified male domination of property rights as a marker of patriarchy. Jewish matrilineality is an interesting case though. I don't know enough about Jewish social organizing, but have the women been considered a subservient class to men? How is matrilineality interacting with patriarchy? Women are subservient to men, but they're the ones through which legitimacy is passed?

Hunter gathering groups? Really? Must you resort to that? Here we're talking about the likes of the San and Pygmy peoples. These are the African Matriarchies?

...hunter-gatherer societies have been the dominant model for 90% of human history. So it's not resorting to anything, it's providing an accurate depiction of our history. This is about gender division of labour, not patriarchy or matriarchy. A society in which both genders do equal shares of labour doesn't preclude patriarchy.

About your last paragraph: No, my conception of history is neither shortsighted nor self-serving. Men and Women assume certain roles and positions because those are what they are most biologically apt to perform; it's not only social construct that forces them to. Let's stop this industrial revolution malarkey. I didn't say that most women had it easy. I'll give you that the way I framed my argument might give the appearance that I think that women did and do nothing. Not the case though. Of course now we cannot go back in time and try to quantify this, but, the burden of nation building, of maintenance, of protection and sacrifice has always been a male centered endevour. Of course women contribute to the societies they are part of (and modern societies allow them the opportunity to do this on an unprecedented scale), however historically the quality and quantity of their contribution is quite different to that of their male counterparts.

I would agree that biology has a big role to play in the division of labour. Women are obviously more suited to certain tasks than men are, and vice-versa. Social programming has historically worked in conjunction with biological reality. But your emphasis on male value over female value ("quality"?) belies your prejudicial notion of what tasks constitutes value. You seem to believe that "nation building" (?) and protection are more important than the female-centric tasks of, say, child rearing or gathering. As if women didn't sacrifice on the same scale as men. Childbirth has historically been one of the most dangerous activities we undertake. I'm glad you agree that women contribute to society, but I still take issue with your claim that the quality (more or less subjective) and quantity (look at a breakdown of hours worked by gender in pre-industrial societies) of women's work has been less than men's. Just to wrap up, my initial problem with your post was that it seemed to be saying women have historically had it easy, but now that you have clarified your position, my issue is that you're claiming a centrality of male labour over female labour with erroneous claims of quality and quantity of labour.

edit: One last thing: like I said there is from my part no desire to discourage women from furthering their own non-pernicious special interests. However, quoting that 60% of underage sexual abuse in black communities without evidence (and knowing it not to be true) is despicable.

...what? I know it not to be true? That's news to me. Are you in possession of the true number of sexual assaults black women have faced? Perhaps you can enlighten us with your thorough research.

 

[godkiller]

That's nice.


No, the success or failure of all societies of any regard has not been dependent on the productivity of solely men. If all the women en masse stopped being productive, society would crumble regardless of the productivity of men.

You're right that the definition of patriarchy isn't codified, so there's room for discussion, but as for Ancient Egypt, I consider a society that has equal legal, economic and social rights for women to be non-patriarchal. Using your own definition, Ancient Egypt would not count as a patriarchy as women had control of property, were in positions of authority as members of the priestly class and influential and recognized members of the Royal court (most obviously as female pharaohs), and had equal social decision making power as men:

"In ancient Egyptian society, women were treated differently than women of other ancient societies. Ancient Egyptian society offered women the greatest opportunities of the Mediterranean societies in relation to their economic, legal, and social positions. They enjoyed the same legal, economic and social rights as Egyptian men. Even though the primary source evidence is limited, it is still possible to use evidence found in temples, tombs on monuments, artwork and surviving texts to establish the role of women in Egyptian society." Source - Women in Ancient Egyptian Society

"Throughout written history, women have experienced status subservient to the men they lived with. Generally, most cultures known to modern historians followed a standard pattern of males assigned the role of protector and provider while women were assigned roles of domestic servitude. Scholars speculate endlessly at the cause: biology, religion, social custom. Nevertheless, the women were always subordinated to the men in their culture. Through their artwork, tomb inscriptions, and papyrus and leather scrolls, preserved in the dry, desert air, Ancient Egyptians left evidence for scholars suggesting that Egypt was once a peculiar exception to this pattern. Anthropological evidence suggests that unusual circumstances in Ancient Egyptian culture provided for women to be given equal status to their male counterparts: notably, matrilineal inheritance and emphasis on the joy of family life over maintaining ethnic purity." Source - http://schoolworkhelper.net/development-of-ancient-egyptian-patriarchy/

"Egyptian women were fortunate in two important ways:

1. While women could become Pharaoh only in very special circumstances, they were otherwise regarded as totally equal to men as far as the law was concerned. They could own property, borrow money, sign contracts, initiate divorce, appear in court as a witness, etc. Of course, they were also equally subject to whatever responsibilities normally accompanied those rights.
2. Love and emotional support were considered to be important parts of marriage. Egyptians loved children as people and not just as potential workers and care-takers." - Source: Women in Ancient Egypt

"An exception to most other ancient societies, Egyptian women achieved parity with Egyptian men. They enjoyed the same legal and economic rights, at least in theory, and this concept can be found in Egyptian art and contemporary manuscripts. The disparities between people's legal rights were based on differences in social class and not on gender. Legal and economic rights were afforded to both men and women." Source - The Role of Women in Ancient Egypt

The above are not real sources. Please find me a scientific review or history source detailing women's dominant role in Egyptian society please, not unsubstantiated and unverified statements from such luminary websites as www.ancient.eu (?). Anyone can write this nonsense. Afterall, most online sources read that the Ancient Egyptians weren't black when recent studies say 100% they were.

 

[King Kreole]

Here y'all go with these talking points ripped straight from something else you've read on the internet instead of real life observations. Are you even black, from America, or live around other black folks?

The black community in America is very much matriarchal. If you've EVER lived in a black neighborhood in America, you'd clearly see this. And this phenomenon exist for several pretty obvious reasons. Social programs that only benefit women without a partner in their homes, mass incarceration of black men, absenteeism within the home itself, ect. These are things you'd say are obvious truths if you were a black person in America

Lets just be real, it doesn't sound like anything you posted in this thread came from an original thought. It just seems like shyt you're repeating from some feminist Tumblr page

Why do people keep spouting this Black Matriarchy bullshyt?

The black family unit is broken, not a matriarchy. Mass incarceration of black men and absenteeism within the home is not evidence of a matriarchy, it's evidence of a broken home unit, and it was purposefully promoted to cripple black people. Matriarchy and Patriarchy relies on the other gender being present and doing labour. So just as if all the women were to disappear from a patriarchal society, it would collapse, when all the men disappear from the black home, it struggles. A black Matriarchy would require men to be present and subjugated by women. When black men are involved in the family unit, they are not giving all their labour and wages to the woman who decides how it is to be spent, they are not considered to be the subservient partner, they are not bereft of legal protections, they are not being sexually victimized and physically abused at higher rates than women. There are billions of dollars missing from this alleged black matriarchy.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this wasn't an original thought of yours.