BREAKING: Deal to end government shutdown in reach. Democrats caving? Only asking for a PROMISE of a vote for ACA Tax credits.

Dr. Acula

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you know that the vote/negotiation over obamacare is in december, right?

yeah, it's probably gonna go up, but being on obamacare is not "a democrat thing". even marjorie taylor greene is on the news talking about how her daughter is on it. and if obamacare goes, then everyone on private insurance gets fukked with rates going up as well

so yeah, having republicans in power for this is not ideal, but it's not remotely set in stone that the subsidies are totally going away

and frankly, if republicans fukk the country on obamacare, democrats probably steamroll them in 2026 and 2028. and republicans KNOW that
Which republicans ensure will fail and democrats will cave.

MTG new heel turn is work. Don’t believe it as sincere and even it is, who cares as her ideological belief system is trash if a 180 is that easy and quick. In addition it means nothing in the grand scheme of how this will play out.

Republicans will fukk the country on this and this is why at the same time they are redistricting their maps acrosss the country so even if they lose popular votes in every state they will still hold the majority in the house. They are nationalizing their model from places like Wisconsin at the moment for this reason to establish eventual one party rule or make it where if democrats do win nationally for the president or senate, they will never get anything done because the house will stop it all in its track which they will make sure democrats never win for a long long time.

They are fully committed to instituting the Hungarian model of government here.
 

Scustin Bieburr

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Why is the onus on Democrats on being the "saviors" and not the fukking reprehensible Republicans and the people who vote for them and not vote? Why in the face of massive racism, classism, sexism from one source the blame is being laid on the party that is not in power?

People were told by Republicans what they would do if they got elected, on how they would fukk them over and in 2 out of the last 3 presidential elections they have won, not even counting the midterms. At this point you can not even blame Republicans for their evil because they are very open and honest about it, the American people are at fault.

You expect the same people that either vote against their interest, or do not vote time and time again to somehow magically have an awakening and change up? The same people complaining about the same shyt that the people they elected do to them? The same people that complain about politicians but can not even be bothered to vote in primaries for good people, or even vote at all? Plenty of progressives and leftist candidates have ran but because people do not actually vote they rarely win, so what is going to change now?

All of this blaming Democrats talk is pointless and harmful because the main issue that has plagued the American public is the American voter. No matter how weak or "centrist" you think establishment Democrats are, they would be infinitely better than the party with full power. Fight the centrists when it comes to the primaries but when you are faced with a destructive force like the Republicans, stop all of the bullshyt and make sure they do not win.
What people are expecting is that the democratic party should be an opposition party. Being an opposition party doesn't mean adopting the framing of your opponent when it comes to certain issues to the point where you are more focused on trying to take voters from that party than empowering those who are your own base and appealing to the people who stayed home.

Look, people whose rights are used as a political bargaining chip ALWAYS show up, the issue is the whites who won't be negatively affected either way who choose to stay home. As you saw in New York, people had a choice to vote for a "lesser" evil in the forms of adams and cuomo. They didn't vote for either and instead voted for someone who actually made what they want the focus of his campaign(taxing the rich parasites and using those funds on things that would make it easier to afford living in the city like other mayors(including mayor Laguardia!) have done). The democrat response was to delay endorsement, join in on republican style bigotry, and double down on criticizing the candidate for not being sufficiently submissive to the demands of a foreign country. They spent 22 million because they had no actual policies besides "I'm not republican" and they lost.

People want POLICIES that will change their lives. Donald Trump understands a BASIC fact of politics: You should promise things and then deliver on them in a way that people can see. He promised to cut down immigration and what did he do? he started construction on a wall and gave ICE basically a blank check to do whatever they want. People who voted for him can point to the wall and they can point to the footage of people they hate being assaulted and arrested and say "he followed through". He promised law and order in "warzone" cities and there are camoflaged soldiers toting rifles in those cities. MAGAts are VERY satisfied with their vote because they can literally see the policies they voted for in action.

Obama said he'd expand healthcare coverage. He can always point to the ACA and say "I delivered on that. It's not perfect, but it's better than what was there before" Obama said he'd resolve the financial crisis and he can always point to General Motors and say "that company was on the verge of ruin. My policies saved it. He can point to the stimulus checks he signed and say "I put food on people's tables". As shytty as the chinese communist party is, they lifted over 800 million people out of poverty and created a sophisticated transportation system, home ownership is close to or over 80% and they have universal health care. People don't want to vote for the "lesser of two evils" they want to vote for someone who ACTUALLY represents their interests. What democrats have been doing is kicking the can down the road and allowing republicans to be a cudgel they can use to threaten the american people into voting for them only for them to do nothing that would actually help the majority of americans but would keep their donors happy.

I'm one of those people that emphasizes community organization and mutual aid because that shyt actually gets results. Look at how democrats behave when they lose elections. Do they donate their time and money to community legal aid? do they donate their time and money to food banks? do you see them joining in to help unions win lawsuits? do they donate time and money to make sure people have access to healthcare in their own communities? no of course not. Do they engage in actual community activism and boycotts? of course not. Those pussies run back to their gated community and write a book about how sad they feel about losing and then go around doing interviews and lectures about how they're a loser but they'll still "fight" and spam you with text messages and emails begging for more money. How the fukk do you get 1 billion dollars to run a campaign against a white supremacist and not only lose, but then also end up in DEBT?

I'm not a millionaire but I at least donate financially to local organizations and boost them whenever I can. What the fukk is Chuck Schumer or Hakeem jeffries doing other than trying to see who can suck billionaire and israeli dikk the hardest? Mexico is a country we've been told should be conservative considering how the majority of people are catholics and that they have a strong patriarchal machismo culture. How the fukk did they end up electing a jewish woman with a european last name who ran on a socialist platform? How did Brazil go from an incompetent fascist to a socialist? how did America's center of finance that was a victim of Islamic terrorism elect a Muslim who doesn't back down when he's called a socialist? BECAUSE OF THE POLICIES. Because he said "I'm not the lesser evil, I'm not evil at all" and despite the efforts of a 22 million dollar smear campaign, people got off their asses and voted for him because he was actually offering policies they wanted instead of fear mongering about conservative politicians. They voted for him because he literally ASKED them what they wanted instead of paying consultant firms to tell them some bullshyt and give them moronic talking points that reflect what the investors want and not what people want.

It speaks to the sheer power of propaganda that it's considered "radical" and not "electable" for a politician to propose common sense policies. The power and omnipresence of propaganda telling people to not expect their elected officials to put forth policy that is popular and changes people's lives has created a gigantic rift between the reality that regular people live in, and the fantasy that these millionaires and aspiring millionaires that control the democratic party. It's not too much to ask for for a party to do more than write strongly worded letters and cave into nearly every republican demand. That's literally how politics USED to be done in this country and that's how people like FDR were able to create the welfare state that republicans began to dismantle and democrats are all too cool with helping them dismantle if they can use it as part of their campaign sloganeering.
 

the cac mamba

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Which republicans ensure will fail and democrats will cave.

MTG new heel turn is work. Don’t believe it as sincere and even it is, who cares as her ideological belief system is trash if a 180 is that easy and quick. In addition it means nothing in the grand scheme of how this will play out.

Republicans will fukk the country on this and this is why at the same time they are redistricting their maps acrosss the country so even if they lose popular votes in every state they will still hold the majority in the house. They are nationalizing their model from places like Wisconsin at the moment for this reason to establish eventual one party rule or make it where if democrats do win nationally for the president or senate, they will never get anything done because the house will stop it all in its track which they will make sure democrats never win for a long long time.

They are fully committed to instituting the Hungarian model of government here.
the genius of obamacare :obama: is that it's far too implemented into the overall medical system for Republicans to tank it without replacing it

and if they won't subsidize it, it fukks shyt up/raises prices on everyone. it would be an electoral disaster for Republicans :yeshrug:

and frankly, maybe it just needs to be redone at this point. clearly it's not perfect; a lot of people are pretty unhappy with health insurance post-obamacare, because it basically ended up being the middle class subsidizing insurance for the poor. and if it's really this vulnerable to republicans being in power, then isn't that an enormous flaw?
 

Wiseborn

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What people are expecting is that the democratic party should be an opposition party. Being an opposition party doesn't mean adopting the framing of your opponent when it comes to certain issues to the point where you are more focused on trying to take voters from that party than empowering those who are your own base and appealing to the people who stayed home.

Look, people whose rights are used as a political bargaining chip ALWAYS show up, the issue is the whites who won't be negatively affected either way who choose to stay home. As you saw in New York, people had a choice to vote for a "lesser" evil in the forms of adams and cuomo. They didn't vote for either and instead voted for someone who actually made what they want the focus of his campaign(taxing the rich parasites and using those funds on things that would make it easier to afford living in the city like other mayors(including mayor Laguardia!) have done). The democrat response was to delay endorsement, join in on republican style bigotry, and double down on criticizing the candidate for not being sufficiently submissive to the demands of a foreign country. They spent 22 million because they had no actual policies besides "I'm not republican" and they lost.

People want POLICIES that will change their lives. Donald Trump understands a BASIC fact of politics: You should promise things and then deliver on them in a way that people can see. He promised to cut down immigration and what did he do? he started construction on a wall and gave ICE basically a blank check to do whatever they want. People who voted for him can point to the wall and they can point to the footage of people they hate being assaulted and arrested and say "he followed through". He promised law and order in "warzone" cities and there are camoflaged soldiers toting rifles in those cities. MAGAts are VERY satisfied with their vote because they can literally see the policies they voted for in action.

Obama said he'd expand healthcare coverage. He can always point to the ACA and say "I delivered on that. It's not perfect, but it's better than what was there before" Obama said he'd resolve the financial crisis and he can always point to General Motors and say "that company was on the verge of ruin. My policies saved it. He can point to the stimulus checks he signed and say "I put food on people's tables". As shytty as the chinese communist party is, they lifted over 800 million people out of poverty and created a sophisticated transportation system, home ownership is close to or over 80% and they have universal health care. People don't want to vote for the "lesser of two evils" they want to vote for someone who ACTUALLY represents their interests. What democrats have been doing is kicking the can down the road and allowing republicans to be a cudgel they can use to threaten the american people into voting for them only for them to do nothing that would actually help the majority of americans but would keep their donors happy.

I'm one of those people that emphasizes community organization and mutual aid because that shyt actually gets results. Look at how democrats behave when they lose elections. Do they donate their time and money to community legal aid? do they donate their time and money to food banks? do you see them joining in to help unions win lawsuits? do they donate time and money to make sure people have access to healthcare in their own communities? no of course not. Do they engage in actual community activism and boycotts? of course not. Those pussies run back to their gated community and write a book about how sad they feel about losing and then go around doing interviews and lectures about how they're a loser but they'll still "fight" and spam you with text messages and emails begging for more money. How the fukk do you get 1 billion dollars to run a campaign against a white supremacist and not only lose, but then also end up in DEBT?

I'm not a millionaire but I at least donate financially to local organizations and boost them whenever I can. What the fukk is Chuck Schumer or Hakeem jeffries doing other than trying to see who can suck billionaire and israeli dikk the hardest? Mexico is a country we've been told should be conservative considering how the majority of people are catholics and that they have a strong patriarchal machismo culture. How the fukk did they end up electing a jewish woman with a european last name who ran on a socialist platform? How did Brazil go from an incompetent fascist to a socialist? how did America's center of finance that was a victim of Islamic terrorism elect a Muslim who doesn't back down when he's called a socialist? BECAUSE OF THE POLICIES. Because he said "I'm not the lesser evil, I'm not evil at all" and despite the efforts of a 22 million dollar smear campaign, people got off their asses and voted for him because he was actually offering policies they wanted instead of fear mongering about conservative politicians. They voted for him because he literally ASKED them what they wanted instead of paying consultant firms to tell them some bullshyt and give them moronic talking points that reflect what the investors want and not what people want.

It speaks to the sheer power of propaganda that it's considered "radical" and not "electable" for a politician to propose common sense policies. The power and omnipresence of propaganda telling people to not expect their elected officials to put forth policy that is popular and changes people's lives has created a gigantic rift between the reality that regular people live in, and the fantasy that these millionaires and aspiring millionaires that control the democratic party. It's not too much to ask for for a party to do more than write strongly worded letters and cave into nearly every republican demand. That's literally how politics USED to be done in this country and that's how people like FDR were able to create the welfare state that republicans began to dismantle and democrats are all too cool with helping them dismantle if they can use it as part of their campaign sloganeering.
the answer it's easier to appeal to hate than it is to keep the lights on.

ICE is basically a less effective bacero program and farm workers and people working at big plants are already offlimits and just like Operation Wetback all those people will come back to the states in a couple of years

People pass the Clean Air act and although they can't see it it's like they "did nothing"

The correct play is to let shyt happen them remind people why they want slow and stready/

Obama didn't win because he was a Political Genius he won because the world economy almost went into a Global recession while fighting a losing war of choice.

So they literally voted for the "lessor of two evils"
 

dj-method-x

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the genius of obamacare :obama: is that it's far too implemented into the overall medical system for Republicans to tank it without replacing it

and if they won't subsidize it, it fukks shyt up/raises prices on everyone. it would be an electoral disaster for Republicans :yeshrug:

and frankly, maybe it just needs to be redone at this point. if it's really this vulnerable to republicans being in power, then isn't that an enormous flaw?

Like you said, that's the genius of Obamacare. "Repealing" it will cause a revolt. The only way to improve it is by taking further steps to single payer healthcare
 

acri1

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Like you said, that's the genius of Obamacare. "Repealing" it will cause a revolt. The only way to improve it is by taking further steps to single payer healthcare

I doubt repealing it would cause a revolt.

A lot of people will get screwed over but Trump will just blame Obama and Democrats :yeshrug: we know how this goes
 

Insensitive

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Also, like, you gotta be a legit cult member to bend over backwards to defend this.
There is no world where your elected officials should be playing nice with these kinds of people who are committed to seeing their
political aims through to the end.
That same kind of commitment needs to be there with the opposition party, you cannot reason with these kinds of people and it needs to be remembered whenever they go to do any kind of voting or decision making in december.
 

Scustin Bieburr

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the answer it's easier to appeal to hate than it is to keep the lights on.

ICE is basically a less effective bacero program and farm workers and people working at big plants are already offlimits and just like Operation Wetback all those people will come back to the states in a couple of years

People pass the Clean Air act and although they can't see it it's like they "did nothing"

The correct play is to let shyt happen them remind people why they want slow and stready/

Obama didn't win because he was a Political Genius he won because the world economy almost went into a Global recession while fighting a losing war of choice.

So they literally voted for the "lessor of two evils"
Literally none of that matters as long as people get what they want RIGHT NOW. What whites want RIGHT NOW is to feel like america belongs to them and they're the "real" owners of the land they stole from natives and came to as immigrants to make sure that america didn't have similar demographics to brazil. They feel like they're being "replaced" by immigrants so when they turn on the TV and see a screaming brown woman with a baby being ripped from her arms they don't think "this is horrible" they think "good, finally someone is doing something about these invaders who are trying to outbreed us". They don't care if immigrants end up back anyway or if the ones at farms and big plants are off limits all they're seeing is people they feel threatened by being eliminated.

And you're right about the clean air act. Nobody can see what they fukking did. Now if it was a bill that involved a public works program and people can say "yeah my cousin got a job building a nuclear powerplant" "yeah I got a job working in customer service for a construction firm because of this government program" or "I noticed a lot more electric charging stations. Gas prices have gone down because they're competing now with EVs on the road. My auntie got one of those Chinese cars for 2k after trading in her old Nissan" then they'd be able to proudly boast that for re-election campaigns.

Obama won because he offered people plans. Mccain said the fundamentals of the economy were sound, he forgot how many houses he owned, and his wife was literally a multibillionaire. He was completely out of touch with how people were feeling financially. Obama went in for the kill by offering people financial relief to increase spending, offering a withdrawal from Iraq, and promising to double efforts in finding Osama Bin Laden. What did he do? he negotiated a withdrawal from Iraq and did IN HIS FIRST TERM what George Bush failed to do in 8 years. He confirmed the death of bin laden and al qaeda was made irrelevant as an organization. He had plans and he delivered on those plans and as Biden said in the 2012 DNC "Osama Bin Laden is dead, and General Motors is alive"

Obama wasn't the lesser of two evils, that was hilary clinton and Joe Biden whom he beat and then hoed out by making them work for him. To act like that man wasn't a political genius is hilarious. He was criticized for a lack of political experience, and he laughed that shyt off because he knew that americans don't care about political experience, they care about who is validating their concerns and offering concrete examples of shyt that he'll do for them. Trump understood this which is why he beat all of his competitors in the republican party and defeated clinton in 2016. He came in basically confirming "yes the system is rigged, I ought to know because I've given money to both parties and they gave me what I want. Don't worry though, I'm on your side voters" and surprise surprise, that shyt worked especially because he also harnessed the racism in this country's DNA to promise white people that they'd be free to be their worst selves with no pushback--something he delivered on.
 
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I doubt repealing it would cause a revolt.

A lot of people will get screwed over but Trump will just blame Obama and Democrats :yeshrug: we know how this goes

It won't work. You saw signs of this on Election Day. When Trump isn't on the ballot, things get very spooky for Republicans because all they have is his cult. In reality, most people realize that Republicans ain't shyt, it's the cult of Trump that's keeping the party going.

Democrats were killing the GOP on Election Day in local elections all across the country. The GOP was being blamed for the SNAP issues and they will be blamed if the ACA goes.
 

Jx2

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Im proud that my fellow voters flooded Shaheen's mailbox until it was full. No one is answering their phones now and even her daughter (who's political career just went up in flames in this state because of what her dumbass mother just did) is speaking out against it.
 

acri1

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It won't work. You saw signs of this on Election Day. When Trump isn't on the ballot, things get very spooky for Republicans because all they have is his cult. In reality, most people realize that Republicans ain't shyt, it's the cult of Trump that's keeping the party going.

Democrats were killing the GOP on Election Day in local elections all across the country. The GOP was being blamed for the SNAP issues and they will be blamed if the ACA goes.

Dems lost the battle but might've ultimately won the war. The poor Republican voters needed the fear of starvation put into them, so they could see what their party is really about. Dems need to use this as the ultimate talking point going forward.

It's 2025 and people still think Republican voters will somehow change :beli:

They've been voting against their self-interest for years. This is no different.
 

King Poetic

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The subsidies have been essential for people buying healthcare through Obamacare. In 2025, 24 million individuals obtained insurance through the ACA marketplace, and the Center on Budget and Policy reports that 93% of enrollees received tax credits that helped reduce their costs.
If Obamacare subsidies do expire, though, marketplace estimates say that premiums could double—or even triple— for those 22 million Americans who receive enhanced subsidies that make health premiums cheaper. According to health policy research group KFF 57% of ACA marketplace enrollees live in Republican congressional districts.

Older adults and seniors are particularly at risk of losing access to their healthcare, since the subsidies spurred a 50% reduction in the uninsured rate among Americans 50 to 64.
 
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