Breaking news: another terrorist attack in France (3 dead, another beheading)

BocaRear

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That's close, but not quite accurate.....

Surah Al-Ma'idah - 5:32



Now, what exactly does 'mischief' mean? I'm not sure, but the next verse shows what Muslims are supposed to do to them......​


“Spread mischief in the land” is an English translation of the original Arabic.

As you yourself have stated you aren’t sure what exactly constitutes mischief.

It would be absurd to interpret mischief in this context is the same as the common English meaning, especially when it is used in the same sentence as murder. Mischief therefore must mean something severe.

You can find several different English translations of that same verse that do not use the term “spread mischief” but rather use terms such as “corruption” etc. All of which fundamentally reveal the same truth - killing an innocent person (Muslim or non-Muslim) is akin to killing the whole of mankind.

Now, as the verse implies, there are situations where killing a non-innocent person is justified.

At its core, the Quran is a book of law. Within the Islamic sharia there are indeed legal killings in the circumstances of capital punishment/self-defence, just as there are within many legal systems across the world.

Legal killings in Sharia law require strict court cases and high burdens of evidence (multiple witnesses) which showcase beyond reasonable doubt that an individual has committed a heinous crime. This is not the same as vigilante killings.

Of course, like all things in life, some warped and sick individuals may twist this to interpret killing of innocent civilians.

The killing of innocent Christian worshippers would certainly not constitute a “legal killing” to any rational Muslim.
 

Dorian Breh

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do you think that french society (and in particular those running it) want those immigrants to become fully integrated stake-holder citizens?

immigration to maintain living standards only works in the presence of a cast system.
Integrated or not, the law of the land supersedes all of that. Whether it be in some Muslim ghetto or whatever, those women had the right to walk those streets, enter those cafés, whatever. This isn’t about some nebulous concept like “integration.” What you saw in that video was literally death threats to those women.
 
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F K

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I have some muslim friends i respect.. but the first time i went in a mosque and saw thay gender segregation :huhldup: i knew it wasn't for me.


There are some aspects of islam that are very progressive and and pro woman.. and we can't act like christian countries have a perfect record on this shyt.

It would be interesting to look at countries like Lebanon and see if there is a difference between religions. I'm still not sure if it is a religious issue or a MENA cultural one.
 

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Integrated or not, the law of the land supersedes all of that. Whether it be in some Muslim ghetto or whatever, those women had the right to walk those streets, enter those cafés, whatever. This isn’t about some nebulous concept like “integration.” What you saw in that video was literally death threats to those women.

Nothing nebulous about what I am saying at all.

I am saying that human behaviour is predictable. The formation of these "ghettos" is policy. They are idiots but they were not born idiots.

You cannot disenfranchise people and be surprised when they act like disenfranchised people do all over the globe and all over recorded history.
 

Dorian Breh

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Nothing nebulous about what I am saying at all.

I am saying that human behaviour is predictable. The formation of these "ghettos" is policy. They are idiots but they were not born idiots.

You cannot disenfranchise people and be surprised when they act like disenfranchised people do all over the globe and all over recorded history.
Are these communities ghettoized because the French government made it that way? Or do they just like being around each other and don’t tolerate outsiders? Would they be open to forced re-education? Many of their religious values are inconsistent with secularism, how would one go about integrating them? Genuinely asking.
 

BocaRear

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If someone rejects, leaves or criticizes Islam and Muhammad, are they 'innocent'?​

You’re asking very good questions - all these questions are questions that Islamic scholars and schools of jurisprudence debate all the time and you should research more in your spare time.

Simply criticizing Islam or the prophet Muhammad pbuh does not give rise to murder - as another poster mentioned, the prophet Muhammad spent his life being derided, attacked and criticized by the Non-Muslim Arab Quraysh tribe.

The Quran teaches that there is no “compulsion in religion” and an individual cannot be forced to become a Muslim with the threat of violence

There is an interpretation of Apostasy (leaving Islam). The Quran itself does not prescribe the death penalty for apostasy/blasphemy except in Sura an Nisa where it states:

“You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority”


Without context this verse appears to tell us to kill all who leave Islam. However, Allah is speaking to the early Muslims on how to “protect the newly formed Muslim community“.

The Quran was revealed in parts to the prophet Muhammad and therefore the context of when they were revealed to the Muslims is significant.

Apostacy in the early days of Islam (where the Muslims were surrounded by neighboring Arab non-muslim tribes) would have been akin to desertion and treason. It would be like Benedict Arnold defecting to the British.

These individuals who left Islam were likely to betray the early small Muslim tribe in the era of the prophet Muhammad pbuh and, as such was deemed a lawful killing.

Treason laws and life sentences/murder for treason are common place across the world.

Again, the killing for aspotacy/blasphemy is a debate within sharia law - it requires high burden of evidence/proof. It even allows the opportunity for the perpetrator al apologize/repent so they are not killed. This is not an extra-judicial killing.

Within the 21st century, apostasy and treason are generally not the same. Across the Muslim world, individuals who have left Islam are not killed. There are many non-practicing Atheists and non- Muslims in Muslim countries.
 

NotaPAWG

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If someone rejects, leaves or criticizes Islam and Muhammad, are they 'innocent'?​

:mjlol:

i love the juelzing defenders of islam do

the most radical sects of islam, salafism, wahhab, etc believe they are following the prophet, they are literally trying to imitate what the earliest and original generations of muslims did

this is literally part of their belief
 

BocaRear

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:mjlol:

i love the juelzing defenders of islam do

the most radical sects of islam, salafism, wahhab, etc believe they are following the prophet, they are literally trying to imitate what the earliest and original generations of muslims did

this is literally part of their belief

Who funds these extremist salafi interpretation? Saudi Arabia and their allies in USA/Israel. The Quran and the Sunnah never advocate for the killing of innocent civilians - it’s antithetical to Islam.

The fact that people misrepresent Islam for geo-political purposes is not an indictment of Islam.

People devote their entire lives studying the Quran and the Hadiths.

The book has both esoteric (Baatin) and exoteric (Zahir) meanings.

There are also significant historical contexts within the Quran that need to be understood as Allah revealed the book to the illiterate Prophet Muhammad pbuh in the form of recited poetry.

Have you read the English translation of the Quran? It’s one of the most difficult books ever written. It’s not in chronological order and the language is difficult.

Someone with an understanding of jurisprudence (Sharia or Common/CivilLaw) understands how complex it is.
 

Dorian Breh

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Damn u mad Islam keep its trill no change up:wow:

Update your book:damn::damn:

So edgy :wow:

Kinda like them decapitating blades for sale in nice:wow:

Who funds these extremist salafi interpretation? Saudi Arabia and their allies in USA/Israel. The Quran and the Sunnah never advocate for the killing of innocent civilians - it’s antithetical to Islam.

The fact that people misrepresent Islam for geo-political purposes is not an indictment of Islam.

People devote their entire lives studying the Quran and the Hadiths.

The book has both esoteric (Baatin) and exoteric (Zahir) meanings.

There are also significant historical contexts within the Quran that need to be understood as Allah revealed the book to the illiterate Prophet Muhammad pbuh in the form of recited poetry.

Have you read the English translation of the Quran? It’s one of the most difficult books ever written. It’s not in chronological order and the language is difficult.

Someone with an understanding of jurisprudence (Sharia or Common/CivilLaw) understands how complex it is.
Which one of you is the real Muslim?
 

NotaPAWG

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Who funds these extremist salafi interpretation? Saudi Arabia and their allies in USA/Israel. The Quran and the Sunnah never advocate for the killing of innocent civilians - it’s antithetical to Islam.

The fact that people misrepresent Islam for geo-political purposes is not an indictment of Islam.

People devote their entire lives studying the Quran and the Hadiths.

The book has both esoteric (Baatin) and exoteric (Zahir) meanings.

There are also significant historical contexts within the Quran that need to be understood as Allah revealed the book to the illiterate Prophet Muhammad pbuh in the form of recited poetry.

Have you read the English translation of the Quran? It’s one of the most difficult books ever written. It’s not in chronological order and the language is difficult.

Someone with an understanding of jurisprudence (Sharia or Common/CivilLaw) understands how complex it is.

true, but also the doctrine that’s being followed dates back to before the house of saud was even established with the promise of spreading wahhabism..

IE: Ibn Taymiyahh, Ahmad Ibn Hanbal


you’re being disingenuous blaming it only on saudi arabia and the US while there was already for centuries jihadist islamist idelogious and “purism” as they see it festering and growing within sunni islamic communities before SA even came into the picture
 
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