BREAKING: RUSSIANS & CHINESE HACK SNOWDEN FILES--British spies 'moved after Snowden files read'

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

There is no "shouldn't"

We spy because we must and you need to understand this.

I don't give a fukk about checking our government by russians.

I don't understand this world where you all are so happy to see enemies of the state take root.

The "shouldnt" is in regards to the implied covert ops that are life and death situations in two major world powers that we already on shaky ground with. Having personnel in other countries for intel is one thing but the dramatization of the news report is another thing. Its either over-blown, disingenuous or a calculated release for other purposes. And if its not, then it's tricky territory for spies and lazy on the part of the US/UK to have not already moved these agents or altered/aborted their ops when the Snowden stuff happened in 2013. You really think US/UK etc just kept their missions status quo after all the Snowden hubbub by just taking his word that the files were safely encrypted despite being under Putins watch in Russia? They should have, and probably did, plan for all contingencies with that..especially as soon as he was granted asylum. It just doesnt add up factually.

I understand the need of intelligence/counter-intelligence and spies. And do I think it's inherently good if our ops get blown up? No. But we got what we deserved if we were that lazy and inept to have kept everyone and everything in place when the info was downloaded by Snowden in the first place. That is horrid management of spies and of gathering intel. Idiocy on our part..and I dont think we are that lazy and inept which is why I think the report is at least somewhat false, if not more. And I am glad they got the info if true in a dismissively snide type of way because, again, that would be pathetic on our part.

Im not happy with enemies of the state taking root..but where exactly are they taking root? Explain this to me because that was a vague comment and a generalization. And me not giving a fukk was in terms of its impact on me and my daily life. Theyre not starting a World War over this (in the off-chance the report is accurate)...and we fukked up with supposed friends in surveillance too (Germany), so wake me up when this significantly changes things that werent already tenuous due to land/oil/precious metals/money/political maneuvering.

Did ISIS "take root" because of the Snowden encryption hack? No.

And we have more than enough technology to not have to rely so heavily on ground agents working covert-ops in major world powers that we are not at war with. Its similar to the drone/air-bomb/ vs using ground troops in guerrilla warfare still. Is it needed in certain spots, yeah. But not like this report seemed to suggest we have been doing...and how would releasing this info via newspaper help these supposed life and death situations? Might as well leak the exact op then.

 

[tmonster]

This has nothing to do with neocons.
This has nothing to do with neocons



Domestic wiretapping isn't what I'm discussing.
Irrelevant
Irrelevant
Irrelevant
Irrelevant

Yes.
None of this has anything to do with liberal or conservative. Both sides of the aisle have negative views of what Snowden is doing to the intelligence establishment with respect to international affairs.
Because you keep posting irrelevant issues not pertinent to international relations and national interests.


Acknowledging past lies does nothing to improve your prediction of further lies. It only makes you skeptical...it doesn't make you right.

None of those things you mentioned have anything to do with whether or not Snowden's carelessness allowed these documents to fall into enemy hands.

irrelevant

 

[tmonster]

Glenn Greenwald on the High Cost of Government Secrecy

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Glenn Greenwald on the High Cost of Government Secrecy

Greenwald doesn't care if China or Russia spies on other countries...so what are we talking about here?

It seems that you're not listening or paying attention. I have no problem reforming domestic wiretapping...but this is not about domestic issues.

900K documents that Snowden stole from the Pentagon had NOTHING to do with domestic surveillance.

 

[tmonster]

Greenwald doesn't care if China or Russia spies on other countries...so what are we talking about here?

of course

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

Greenwald doesn't care if China or Russia spies on other countries...so what are we talking about here?

It seems that you're not listening or paying attention. I have no problem reforming domestic wiretapping...but this is not about domestic issues.

What reforms do you suggest?

You said to me "enemies of state taking root"...so how isnt that a domestic issue?

How we gonna identify Americans planning on joining ISIS without domestic wiretapping and surveillance?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

The "shouldnt" is in regards to the implied covert ops that are life and death situations in two major world powers that we already on shaky ground with. Having personnel in other countries for intel is one thing but the dramatization of the news report is another thing. Its either over-blown, disingenuous or a calculated release for other purposes. And if its not, then it's tricky territory for spies and lazy on the part of the US/UK to have not already moved these agents or altered/aborted their ops when the Snowden stuff happened in 2013. You really think US/UK etc just kept their missions status quo after all the Snowden hubbub by just taking his word that the files were safely encrypted despite being under Putins watch in Russia? They should have, and probably did, plan for all contingencies with that..especially as soon as he was granted asylum. It just doesnt add up factually.

The suggestion was that Snowden's leaks did have an effect on the ability of intelligence officers, assets, and agents to do their jobs overseas. And you know what? I believe them. It was true when Manning did it. It was true when Assange did it.

These "leakers/whistleblowers" always cross the line.

Snowden should have kept it domestic, and everyone agrees.

I understand the need of intelligence/counter-intelligence and spies. And do I think it's inherently good if our ops get blown up? No. But we got what we deserved if we were that lazy and inept to have kept everyone and everything in place when the info was downloaded by Snowden in the first place. That is horrid management of spies and of gathering intel. Idiocy on our part..and I dont think we are that lazy and inept which is why I think the report is at least somewhat false, if not more. And I am glad they got the info if true in a dismissively snide type of way because, again, that would be pathetic on our part.

Well its good to see you're walking back what I deem to be a careless and irresponsible comment about the importance of intelligence and acknowledging that cynicism is destructive. Other than that, I agree with you. The USA made careless errors in putting a low-level analyst in a position where he thought he had the knowledge to interpret troves of primary data.

I saw this comment elsewhere and thought it was appropriate:

"The US corporate media, including BI, has some explaining to do. I would like the media to explain why it played up an uneducated narcissist with nothing more than a technical certificate in systems administration, a high level security clearance, and the ability to download huge numbers of files he did not understand onto a thumb drive, as some sort of intellectual, super-spy and philosopher/judge of Western civilization. The fawning coverage of this despicable, clueless traitor as some sort of devoted public servant 'whistle-blower' is nauseating. This idiot's job was to keep routine commercial software on high-security systems updated. He was highly paid to do this simple and mundane task because it was a high-trust environment. You can see what he did with that trust. And you trust anything he says as revealed Truth? You have the nerve to call this buffoon an 'intelligence agent'?"

Im not happy with enemies of the state taking root..but where exactly are they taking root? Explain this to me because that was a vague comment and a generalization. And me not giving a fukk was in terms of its impact on me and my daily life. Theyre not starting a World War over this (in the off-chance the report is accurate)...and we fukked up with supposed friends in surveillance too (Germany), so wake me up when this significantly changes things that werent already tenuous due to land/oil/precious metals/money/political maneuvering.

Its the fact that as long as you claim to be an American, that this stuff builds up over time and letting single incidents go unanswered leads to bigger problems down the road.

Does my day change because of this? Absolutely not.

But does my perception of the standing of the USA in the world change? Yes...and its not for the better.

Did ISIS "take root" because of the Snowden encryption hack? No.

This is lazy.

And we have more than enough technology to not have to rely so heavily on ground agents working covert-ops in major world powers that we are not at war with. Its similar to the drone/air-bomb/ vs using ground troops in guerrilla warfare still. Is it needed in certain spots, yeah. But not like this report seemed to suggest we have been doing...and how would releasing this info via newspaper help these supposed life and death situations? Might as well leak the exact op then.

You can't just answer every transgression against this country well "its not that bad"

Someone has to take up for this slack and fill in the gaps. That sort of apathy is destructive and doesn't help to address accountability.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

What reforms do you suggest?

You said to me "enemies of state taking root"...so how isnt that a domestic issue?

How we gonna identify Americans planning on joining ISIS without domestic wiretapping and surveillance?

Its not a domestic issue because we're not talking about domestic wiretapping.

I split what Snowden did into two camps:

1. His "revelations (which everyone should have known way before hand)" about domestic spying
2. His treasonous leaks about international efforts by the USA to obtain intelligence

Anything that does not pertain to internal, domestic matters should be prosecuted to the highest extent of the law.

I don't care how offended other nations are. The USA has its own interests and should stop at no ends to obtain them.. If spying is what it takes, then no resource should be spared in getting that information.

Fact is, many people seem to think that merely sitting on our hands while the rest of the world doesn't play by those rules and allow us to fall behind simply because of a "moral" hang-up about snooping around is inherently dangerous, if not patently stupid.

A lot of Americans think the world plays by the same rules that we do within our borders...so in essence, I'm trying to get people to understand that the rules aren't the same everywhere and the game is certainly not one people take for granted by living in the USA.

 

[tmonster]

"The US corporate media, including BI, has some explaining to do. I would like the media to explain why it played up an uneducated narcissist with nothing more than a technical certificate in systems administration, a high level security clearance, and the ability to download huge numbers of files he did not understand onto a thumb drive, as some sort of intellectual, super-spy and philosopher/judge of Western civilization. The fawning coverage of this despicable, clueless traitor as some sort of devoted public servant 'whistle-blower' is nauseating. This idiot's job was to keep routine commercial software on high-security systems updated. He was highly paid to do this simple and mundane task because it was a high-trust environment. You can see what he did with that trust. And you trust anything he says as revealed Truth? You have the nerve to call this buffoon an 'intelligence agent'?"

that was some hot name calling, damn son, appropriate indeed

 

[tmonster]

900K documents that Snowden stole from the Pentagon had NOTHING to do with domestic surveillance.

how do you know that?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

how do you know that?

According to what the government and what other experts in the field have said over the past 2 years.

Then again, maybe I know nothing at all.

Maybe i'm not alive and this is all a dream.

Maybe I'm a dolphin.

 

[tmonster]

According to what the government and what other experts in the field have said over the past 2 years.

can......can you......humh...source them?

and then tell us why we should believe them...........................................

 

[tmonster]

Im not happy with enemies of the state taking root

NO American fukking is, don't insult yourself by avowing your patriotism in response to this dog whistle
it is they who must prove they are patriots after spying on us and eroding our civil rights

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

NO American fukking is, don't insult yourself by avowing your patriotism in response to this dog whistle
it is they who must prove they are patriots after spying on us and eroding our civil rights

STOP. CONFLATING. DOMESTIC. ISSUES. WITH. FOREIGN. ISSUES. ​

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

can......can you......humh...source them?

and then tell us why we should believe them...........................................

I'm going to have to look, but in the meantime heres a metaphor for you:

Remember when Manning took all those files he didn't even read?

Then yeah, its similar to what Snowden did, but on a way larger scale.

Not all of those documents related to surveillance, but actual state secrets involving serious spy-craft and secret mechanisms.