BREXIT - June 23rd 2016 vote - *ARTICLE 50 TRIGGERED!*

[88m3]

Explain how he is wrong w/o using guilt, shame and accusations of racism

What floodgates to Eastern Europe?

The free movement of labor is driven by the market.


Multiculturalism worries or affects you guys? I'm at a loss of words on that front.


The age groups of leave and remain you're just going to ignore?

 

[Trajan]

Immigration is supposed to be a net positive to a country, not a burden

Immigrants are a net positive in the UK. They more than pay their own way.

By calculating European immigrants’ share of the cost of government spending and their contribution to government revenues, the scholars estimate that between 1995 and 2011 the migrants made a positive contribution of more than £4 billion ($6.4 billion) to Britain, compared with an overall negative contribution of £591 billion for native Britons. Between 2001 and 2011, the net fiscal contribution of recent arrivals from the eastern European countries that have joined the EU since 2004 has amounted to almost £5 billion. Even during the worst years of the financial crisis, in 2007-11, they made a net contribution of almost £2 billion to British public finances. Migrants from other European countries chipped in £8.6 billion.

The authors point out that the cost of some government services—in particular “pure public goods” such as defence spending—remains the same no matter what the population, so the overall cost of providing them to immigrants is zero. Calculate the amount per person, and the price for Britons goes down as the number of immigrants rises, since the cost is shared between a larger number of individuals.

http://www.economist.com/news/brita...ce-research-what-have-immigrants-ever-done-us

European migrants to the UK are not a drain on Britain’s finances and pay out far more in taxes than they receive in state benefits, a new study has revealed.

UK gains £20bn from European migrants, UCL economists reveal

The Leave campaign conceded this point if I remember correctly. The immigration issue is not based on economics but more so in loss of identity. However, as things stand in the UK you can't have your cake and eat it.

All of this is a moot point now because leading Brexiteers accept that immigration will be more or less unchanged. Completely pointless.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

What floodgates to Eastern Europe?

The free movement of labor is driven by the market.


Multiculturalism worries or affects you guys? I'm at a loss of words on that front.


The age groups of leave and remain you're just going to ignore?

I read that as floodgates from Eastern Europe... which IIRC is true. I can't remember where I heard it, but it was a reputable source. UK def takes in more Eastern Europeans than other European countries

"Free movement" is a red herring, no such thing with borders, even in the EU outside of the Schengen, which UK is not a part of. These are countries, not economic equations.

Multiculturalism doesn't worry me; I value it. However I'm not with it being used as a tool to undermine the economic stability of citizens for the benefit of those who profit from cheaper, less stable labor.

OK, he was wrong about the age thing. Not doubting there is a good amount of xenophobia in the leave camp either. But they haven't come up with loaded terms for the prioritization of immigrants over citizens that many globalists do. Like I said immigration should be a net plus for a country, not a burden. But I will touch on that below:

Immigrants are a net positive in the UK. They more than pay their own way.



http://www.economist.com/news/brita...ce-research-what-have-immigrants-ever-done-us



UK gains £20bn from European migrants, UCL economists reveal

The Leave campaign conceded this point if I remember correctly. The immigration issue is not based on economics but more so in loss of identity. However, as things stand in the UK you can't have your cake and eat it.

All of this is a moot point now because leading Brexiteers accept that immigration will be more or less unchanged. Completely pointless.

There is more to that than their net take from entitlements. For example it's not unreasonable to suggest that maybe the Britons are taking more from the system because the loss of jobs to immigrants has made them more reliant on it. So the net effect is still not positive.

I'm not at all discounting the bellyaching about "British culture" and all the xenophobic horseshyt being spewed. And of course leaving the EU will only make everyone in the UK's situation worse. I'm still flabbergasted. But both here and in the UK the approach to immigration over the last ~20 years has been wrong. Painting any type of call for immigration control as xenophobic is a brilliant trick the business class has fooled globalists into promoting.

 

[Ghost_In_A_Shell]

I am trying to figure out what sort of resoures does britian have to make a move like this?

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I am trying to figure out what sort of resoures does britian have to make a move like this?

It doesn't

But the people who voted to leave don't care. They either did it as a joke or are too stupid to understand the consequences of their actions.

 

[Scoop]

I am trying to figure out what sort of resoures does britian have to make a move like this?

Service and tech economy.

It's not like they had "resources" before and they were the 5th largest economy. They didn't lose resources by leaving the EU. They'll still trade with everyone.

 

[BaggerofTea]

I am trying to figure out what sort of resoures does britian have to make a move like this?

They don't and that is the most glorious thing about it

They have effectively put the bullet in the chamber and just need ole Boris to pull the trigger

 

[BaggerofTea]

Service and tech economy.

It's not like they had "resources" before and they were the 5th largest economy. They didn't lose resources by leaving the EU. They'll still trade with everyone.

Not for long as companies are beginning to freeze British hires and are making plans to move to France, Germany, Scotland etc etc

 

[88m3]

I read that as floodgates from Eastern Europe... which IIRC is true. I can't remember where I heard it, but it was a reputable source. UK def takes in more Eastern Europeans than other European countries

"Free movement" is a red herring, no such thing with borders, even in the EU outside of the Schengen, which UK is not a part of. These are countries, not economic equations.

Multiculturalism doesn't worry me; I value it. However I'm not with it being used as a tool to undermine the economic stability of citizens for the benefit of those who profit from cheaper, less stable labor.

OK, he was wrong about the age thing. Not doubting there is a good amount of xenophobia in the leave camp either. But they haven't come up with loaded terms for the prioritization of immigrants over citizens that many globalists do. Like I said immigration should be a net plus for a country, not a burden. But I will touch on that below:


There is more to that than their net take from entitlements. For example it's not unreasonable to suggest that maybe the Britons are taking more from the system because the loss of jobs to immigrants has made them more reliant on it. So the net effect is still not positive.

I'm not at all discounting the bellyaching about "British culture" and all the xenophobic horseshyt being spewed. And of course leaving the EU will only make everyone in the UK's situation worse. I'm still flabbergasted. But both here and in the UK the approach to immigration over the last ~20 years has been wrong. Painting any type of call for immigration control as xenophobic is a brilliant trick the business class has fooled globalists into promoting.

Why is that a bad thing? What/where is Eastern Europe to you? People from Eastern Europe can legally work in England and study there if they're EU citizens and if they're not by getting permits and visas.

"However I'm not with it being used as a tool to undermine the economic stability of citizens for the benefit of those who profit from cheaper, less stable labor". I've rarely read anything so obtuse.

Not doubting there is a good about of xenophobia in the leave camp? Are you watching the news? "Prioritization of immigrants over citizens that many globalists"? Several fallacies going on there...


Immigration isn't a net plus? You're off your rocker with that one.

I'll leave this here
One in three UK doctors born abroad, international research shows

England leaving the EU is a political and economic shyt show that goes against all logic and reasoning. It's to the point that where it can't even rationally be argued but here you are trying.


Immigration control is seated in xenophobia and it always has been to try and label it as anything else or invent conspiracies to deflect from it are alarming.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Why is that a bad thing? What/where is Eastern Europe to you? People from Eastern Europe can legally work in England and study there if they're EU citizens and if they're not by getting permits and visas.

"However I'm not with it being used as a tool to undermine the economic stability of citizens for the benefit of those who profit from cheaper, less stable labor". I've rarely read anything so obtuse.

Not doubting there is a good about of xenophobia in the leave camp? Are you watching the news? "Prioritization of immigrants over citizens that many globalists"? Several fallacies going on there...


Immigration isn't a net plus? You're off your rocker with that one.

I'll leave this here
One in three UK doctors born abroad, international research shows

England leaving the EU is a political and economic shyt show that goes against all logic and reasoning. It's to the point that where it can't even rationally be argued but here you are trying.


Immigration control is seated in xenophobia and it always has been to try and label it as anything else or invent conspiracies to deflect from it are alarming.

Welp looks like you and I are done talking about this then.

 

[Scoop]

Pro immigration people always take a "let them all in approach" despite the fact most immigrants never have a positive impact on the country they immigrate too. You could be selective of who you let in of course. Pro-immigration never are though and that's why it always reeks of social engineering and vote fishing.

Pro immigration people also point to stats that show immigration causes "the economy to grow" but never analyze the fact that growth is being pushed to people who benefit them most from cheap labor: the rich. The average person never gets that economic growth, they just get their wages depressed.

Anti-immigrant people are largely debating the issue from a sovereignty/self-determination standpoint anyway, so it's not like the two sides can ever meet up and agree in the middle, because the sides are debating from two different planets.

Basic economics suggest that in theory, people in poor countries would immigrate to rich countries infinitely until there was equilibrium, meaning all countries were of the same per capita wealth.

If jobs start becoming more scarce from automation (and I'm not sure they will) the anti immigrant argument will look a lot stronger economically.

I'm not saying all immigration is bad, on the contrary, but I definitely think there is a Laffer curve in play, and the pro immigrant people need to acknowledge it.

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Pro immigration people always take a "let them all in approach" despite the fact most immigrants never have a positive impact on the country they immigrate too. You could be selective of who you let in of course. Pro-immigration never are though and that's why it always reeks of social engineering and vote fishing.

Pro immigration people also point to stats that show immigration causes "the economy to grow" but never analyze the fact that growth is being pushed to people who benefit them most from cheap labor: the rich. The average person never gets that economic growth, they just get their wages depressed.

Anti-immigrant people are largely debating the issue from a sovereignty/self-determination standpoint anyway, so it's not like the two sides can ever meet up and agree in the middle, because the sides are debating from two different planets.

Basic economics suggest that in theory, people in poor countries would immigrate to rich countries infinitely until there was equilibrium, meaning all countries were of the same per capita wealth.

Despite concerns that competition from immigrants might harm employment prospects for native-born Americans, recent economic research suggests that, on average, immigrants raise wages and expand employment opportunities for Americans.

What New Immigrants Could Mean for American Wages

 

[Scoop]

Despite concerns that competition from immigrants might harm employment prospects for native-born Americans, recent economic research suggests that, on average, immigrants raise wages and expand employment opportunities for Americans.

What New Immigrants Could Mean for American Wages

The figure below estimates the impact of the proposed change in immigrant demographics on wages for U.S.-born workers of differing education levels between 2014 and 2023.

So you have two models who wildly don't agree, and out of that I'm supposed to see the effect is positive?

Read your own article next time.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

And we have already seen tons of articles demonstrating how loose immigration negatively impacts black people. But I'm sure the pro immigration folks just write it off as Koch sponsored propaganda

You negus sound positively Republican right now

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

The figure below estimates the impact of the proposed change in immigrant demographics on wages for U.S.-born workers of differing education levels between 2014 and 2023.

So you have two models who wildly don't agree, and out of that I'm supposed to see the effect is positive?

Read your own article next time.

Both models result in the same conclusion: the average impact of immigrants on wages for U.S.-born workers is positive. The wage gain may be small—0.18 percent for Ottaviano–Peri and 0.03 percent for Borjas–Katz—but nevertheless runs counter to the common belief that immigrants generally compete for jobs and bring down wages for U.S.-born workers.