Bron Ball: The worst offense of all time?

[Sccit]

If Lebron really "picked" then Melo and CP3 wouldve been on that Heat team and Cousin's and PG wouldve been on this Cavs team, but I hear you.

He went to the Heat who wasnt good before he got there and then went back to the Cavs who was trash, Dude didnt go to to 8 teams in either conference

We over sensationalize this shyt sometimes

Martha

HE WENT TO A TEAM THAT HAD A TOP 5 PLAYER+FINALS MVPS ANF TOOK THE BEST PLAYER OFF AN EASTERN CONFERENCE PLAYOFF TEAM TO MAKE HIM A THIRD OPTION....FUCC U TALKIN BOUT? U WANTED THE WHOLE 12 MAN ROSTER TO BE SUPERSTARS?? LOLSMH

 

[panopticon]

But like you said... it IS frustrating.... because its like where are we going with the agenda in the conversation with him?

Is it about his individual accomplishments or team?

Cuz we outright call a man the GOAT that doesnt have as many rings as a few player before him and he doesnt even have the alltime record in points but yet we bill him as the greatest scorer of all time.

People forget the legend that is the logo of the league was 1-7 in the finals but no one ever mentions that other than he's a champ and a legend.

We constantly pivot

Martha

That's a great point.
Disclaimer: I can only speak for myself here - others have their own criteria.

For me, being the GOAT requires leading a team to significant accomplishments (championships), individual statistical excellence, and individual player awards (MVP, FMVP, DPOA, All-NBA teams etc.)
Bron has the stat sheet down cold. No issues there. He could probably never take another shot and just play off-ball to terrify defenses into doubling him for the rest of his career and still have all the stats he needs.

He's never won DPOY - even when younger and more energetic. And there's probably no way he can get there now, just because of his age and the need to conserve energy. MJ won it once. Advantage - MJ.

He's made All-NBA 1st Defensive Team 5 times. All-NBA 2nd Defensive Team once. MJ won 1st team 9 times. Advantage - MJ.

He's made All-NBA 1st team 11 times. All-NBA 2nd Team once (06-07). MJ won 1st team 10 times, 2nd team once. Advantage - Lebron.

Lebron has been league MVP 4 times. MJ won it 5 times. Advantage - MJ.

Lebron has been FMVP 3 times. MJ won it 6 times. Advantage - MJ.

There's still time for Lebron to surpass MJ in a lot of these categories, with the exception probably of DPOY and All-NBA Defensive Teams. So the jury's still out on awards.
What he doesn't have is the team accomplishments to surpass MJ as the GOAT. The leader of 6 teams to 6 NBA championships and winning 6 FMVPs...shyt is just

Now, would Lebron necessarily need to be undefeated in Finals to surpass MJ? No, I don't think so, because that would make me a fukking hypocrite - I put Tom Brady over Joe Montana.

But in the case he isn't undefeated, he'd need at least 7 chips to justify putting him over MJ in this category.

Again, these are just my personal criteria. I don't want it to be thought that I'm a Jordan "stan" and would never allow anyone to be called GOAT over MJ - that just isn't the case. But for me to call someone the GOAT, they need to surpass MJ both on an individual statistical / accolade level, as well as beat him in total number of championships.
I've been rooting for Lebron from the start - it would be incredible to see someone surpass what MJ accomplished.
That's what's been so frustrating about his career to me - he has all the gifts necessary to pull it off, but just hasn't ever put it all together.

And unfortunately, I do think a lot of it has to do with the style of basketball he's chosen to play, along with his constant meddling in other areas of the franchises he plays for (LeGM, LeCoach, etc.).
The silver lining here is that because of how incredible his work ethic is, he still has the chance to pass the GOAT.

 

[ELESDEE616]

And unfortunately, I do think a lot of it has to do with the style of basketball he's chosen to play, along with his constant meddling in other areas of the franchises he plays for (LeGM, LeCoach, etc.).
The silver lining here is that because of how incredible his work ethic is, he still has the chance to pass the GOAT.

Name the finals LeBron should've won outside of Mavs given his roster.

 

[Bryan Danielson]

HE WENT TO A TEAM THAT HAD A TOP 5 PLAYER+FINALS MVPS ANF TOOK THE BEST PLAYER OFF AN EASTERN CONFERENCE PLAYOFF TEAM TO MAKE HIM A THIRD OPTION....FUCC U TALKIN BOUT? U WANTED THE WHOLE 12 MAN ROSTER TO BE SUPERSTARS?? LOLSMH

He went to a team the previous 2 years got put out in the first round, 3 years prior didnt even make the playoffs and was an under 50 win typical "weak east team"...... with that so called "Top 5 player and Finals MVP."

And you cant take nothing you dont own. Bosh chose himself to go there at the end of the day he is his own man and cant no one make him do what he dont want to do.

And again, no one said he had to have a 12 man roster full of superstars... just like no one talks about 2015 Championship Warriors 67 win team having 5 Allstars (one a 2 time league MVP and the other a Finals MVP) or no one talking about how they currently have 5 Allstars on their team and 2 MVPs, and 2 Finals MVPs on this squad.

But I guess its cool for everyone else

Martha

 

[panopticon]

Name the finals LeBron should've won outside of Mavs given his roster.

I don't see that as a valid excuse, breh
Lebron is as much the architect of his rosters as he is the leader of the teams he plays on.
You can't exercise that sort of power while simultaneously escaping responsibility for the results.

 

[Rigby.]

I didnt expect this to be a dub and presumably it wont be, but it is an interesting stat that hes been an underdog 7 of his 9 years. If Bron represents anything, its a pretty clear indicator that the league is better than in the 90s. If one argument can be solved by LeBron's career, it is that the 90s were shyt. And I think that should be more than enough for all of us.

 

[Bryan Danielson]

That's a great point.
Disclaimer I can only speak for myself here - others have their own criteria.

For me, being the GOAT requires leading a team to significant accomplishments (championships), individual statistical excellence, and individual player awards (MVP, FMVP, DPOA, All-NBA teams etc.)
Bron has the stat sheet down cold. No issues there. He could probably never take another shot and just play off-ball to terrify defenses into doubling him for the rest of his career and still have all the stats he needs.

He's never won DPOY - even when younger and more energetic. And there's probably no way he can get there now, just because of his age and the need to conserve energy. MJ won it once. Advantage - MJ.

He's made All-NBA 1st Defensive Team 5 times. All-NBA 2nd Defensive Team once. MJ won 1st team 9 times. Advantage - MJ.

He's made All-NBA 1st team 11 times. All-NBA 2nd Team once (06-07). MJ won 1st team 10 times, 2nd team once. Advantage - Lebron.

Lebron has been league MVP 4 times. MJ won it 5 times. Advantage - MJ.

Lebron has been FMVP 3 times. MJ won it 6 times. Advantage - MJ.

There's still time for Lebron to surpass MJ in a lot of these categories, with the exception probably of DPOY and All-NBA Defensive Teams. So the jury's still out on awards.
What he doesn't have is the team accomplishments to surpass MJ as the GOAT. The leader of 6 teams to 6 NBA championships and winning 6 FMVPs...shyt is just

Now, would Lebron necessarily need to be undefeated in Finals to surpass MJ? No, I don't think so, because that would make me a fukking hypocrite - I put Tom Brady over Joe Montana.

But in the case he isn't undefeated, he'd need at least 7 chips to justify putting him over MJ in this category.

Again, these are just my personal criteria. I don't want it to be thought that I'm a Jordan "stan" and would never allow anyone to be called GOAT over MJ - that just isn't the case. But for me to call someone the GOAT, they need to surpass MJ both on an individual statistical / accolade level, as well as beat him in total number of championships.
I've been rooting for Lebron from the start - it would be incredible to see someone surpass what MJ accomplished.
That's what's been so frustrating about his career to me - he has all the gifts necessary to pull it off, but just hasn't ever put it all together.

And unfortunately, I do think a lot of it has to do with the style of basketball he's chosen to play, along with his constant meddling in other areas of the franchises he plays for (LeGM, LeCoach, etc.).
The silver lining here is that because of how incredible his work ethic is, he still has the chance to pass the GOAT.

Just wanna throw this out there....

Imagine Lebron had to face this level of adversity at his position all the way through playoffs and ultimately in the finals while having a Pippin like player to guard the opposing teams best player and he occasionally matches up with them on Defense but a lot it is just help defense

To be a superster... most would say you have to average 25 points and up. But if you below the 20s, you're typically mediocre to garbage


Martha

 

[Bryan Danielson]

I didnt expect this to be a dub and presumably it wont be, but it is an interesting stat that hes been an underdog 7 of his 9 years. If Bron represents anything, its a pretty clear indicator that the league is better than in the 90s. If one argument can be solved by LeBron's career, it is that the 90s were shyt. And I think that should be more than enough for all of us.

Be a starting SG on a finals team and average 4.5ppg brehs

Martha

 

[McPiff]

If Lebron really "picked" then Melo and CP3 wouldve been on that Heat team and Cousin's and PG wouldve been on this Cavs team, but I hear you.

He went to the Heat who wasnt good before he got there and then went back to the Cavs who was trash, Dude didnt go to to 8 teams in either conference

We over sensationalize this shyt sometimes

Martha

These dudes got their minds made up already breh. Dont waste your time

 

[Wiirdo]

Bron ball and D'Antoni offense are some of the best offenses of all-time

 

[Rigby.]

Be a starting SG on a finals team and average 4.5ppg brehs

Martha

Im assuming thats JR's stats? the 2 guard is in a weird ass state no doubt but I dont think JR should be allowed to be a representative of that

maybe a representative of LeBron forcing Cleveland to bid against themselves, as well as against any future hopes of a ring, but not of the 2 guard spot

 

[Hersh]

can y'all even name more than 5 offenese?

 

[Bryan Danielson]

Im assuming thats JR's stats? the 2 guard is in a weird ass state no doubt but I dont think JR should be allowed to be a representative of that

maybe a representative of LeBron forcing Cleveland to bid against themselves, as well as against any future hopes of a ring, but not of the 2 guard spot

Na.... JR is averaging 10. which still isnt good but better than 4.5



Martha

 

[Bryan Danielson]

can y'all even name more than 5 offenese?

I asked that same question earlier and cats either ducked it or pivoted

martha

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

I actually hate it. Turns everyone into a rhythm-less spot up shooter. It's an ugly offense, but Bron is dominant enough to make it work most of the time. When it doesn't though, he still gets no blame because he gets his.

Thread should've ended after this post. Nothing of worth came after it.