Cam'Ron And Dame ...why did they not start up or continue the ROC after Jay left?

[Malik]

Jay was the main one against Kanye being one of their artist, Dame was telling Kanye to chill and wait, Jay was flat out against it.
It was only after found success and proved himself that Jay opened up to him becoming an artist.

Id always look at that nikka funny style if I was Kanye.

 

[ignorethis]

I seriously doubt it.
All the relevant words is that the two grew apart.
Dame was out screaming on nikkas you shouldn't scream on, fukking all the girls in the city, getting fukked up, giving out a million dollars each to rappers with no future, putting random nikkas on the board and on and on. While Jay-z was trying to mature around 2002-2003.

People forget that they had different levels of friends, Jays real nikkas that went back with him to his Brooklyn days are still with him. And Dame has his gang of dudes and brothers are still with him. They wanted different things, had their own friends that were independent of jay/dame's relationship. So Dame did his thing by staying indie and jay did his thing by going corporate. I don't think two real nikkas like them needed a cac to tell them not to fukk with each other.

Dame obviously thought he could do his own thing, which was why he signed mad cats cause Jay had been talking about retiring since forever. I personally think Dame fukked up with his anti-social ways in an industry that's all about contacts.

Nobody denies Lyor's involvement in the events that led to the break up of the Roc. Lyor was setting up secret meetings behind Dame's back. Lyor had been wanted Dame out of the picture.

As much as people act like Jay is an excellent exec, Jay is an flop of a hip hop exec. Most of his wealth comes from selling off assets of the Rocafella dynasty that he and Dame built together (I suspect that was mostly Dame.), public and backdoor endorsements due to his icon status, and getting good deals cause his friendships with the head execs in music. Don't act like Jay played a major part on building up Rihanna, Def Jam is a big bureaucracy and project Rihanna was already in progress when Jay stepped into the picture. The biggest thing Jay did as President of Def Jam was lure Jeezy and Rick Ross away from Diddy and Birdman.

At the end of the day Dame and Jay did have different goals; Dame want to be on the same level as Sony/RCA, Universal, Interscope, and CAA in this music and entertainments shyt; Jay had no problem being under these dudes he just wanted to be higher in the hierarchy with a higher pay grade.

People act like Jay is a boss in his endeavors, when he's just a high paid employee. Jay is an employee of Live Nation, and employee of CAA, he had a minor ownership of the Nets, but at the end of the day it was exposed he was basically an employee (which is why he got so defensive on that 'Open Letter' track, making a fool of himself)

 

[Malik]

Nobody denies Lyor's involvement in the events that led to the break up of the Roc. Lyor was setting up secret meetings behind Dame's back. Lyor had been wanted Dame out of the picture.

As much as people act like Jay is an excellent exec, Jay is an flop of a hip hop exec. Most of his wealth comes from selling off assets of the Rocafella dynasty that he and Dame built together (I suspect that was mostly Dame.), public and backdoor endorsements due to his icon status, and getting good deals cause his friendships with the head execs in music.

At the end of the day Dame and Jay did have different goals; Dame want to be on the same level as Sony/RCA, Universal, Interscope, and CAA in this music and entertainments shyt; Jay had no problem being under these dudes he just wanted to be higher in the hierarchy with a higher pay grade.

People act like Jay is a boss in his endeavors, when he's just a high paid employee. Jay is an employee of Live Nation, and employee of CAA, he had a minor ownership of the Nets, but at the end of the day it was exposed he was basically an employee (which is why he got so defensive on that 'Open Letter' track, making a fool of himself)

Yep. Dame being a loud azzhole was just an excuse Lyor needed. Dame could have been a cool, calm cat and it wouldn't have mattered because it would have been people in Jay's ear saying he don't need those two nikkas anymore. Puff and Russell Simmons scream on everybody. I watched I Want to Work For Diddy and MTB. That nikka's an azzhole on television. In real life, working for that nikka is probably hell but, Dame's the bad guy. Only thing I can say is Dame was fukked from the start being partners with Jay because it left him vulnerable to having his artist stolen from him whereas Puff owned Bad Boy and Biggie was signed directly to him.

 

[Harry B]

Nobody denies Lyor's involvement in the events that led to the break up of the Roc. Lyor was setting up secret meetings behind Dame's back. Lyor had been wanted Dame out of the picture.

As much as people act like Jay is an excellent exec, Jay is an flop of a hip hop exec. Most of his wealth comes from selling off assets of the Rocafella dynasty that he and Dame built together (I suspect that was mostly Dame.), public and backdoor endorsements due to his icon status, and getting good deals cause his friendships with the head execs in music. Don't act like Jay played a major part on building up Rihanna, Def Jam is a big bureaucracy and project Rihanna was already in progress when Jay stepped into the picture. The biggest thing Jay did as President of Def Jam was lure Jeezy and Rick Ross away from Diddy and Birdman.

At the end of the day Dame and Jay did have different goals; Dame want to be on the same level as Sony/RCA, Universal, Interscope, and CAA in this music and entertainments shyt; Jay had no problem being under these dudes he just wanted to be higher in the hierarchy with a higher pay grade.

People act like Jay is a boss in his endeavors, when he's just a high paid employee. Jay is an employee of Live Nation, and employee of CAA, he had a minor ownership of the Nets, but at the end of the day it was exposed he was basically an employee (which is why he got so defensive on that 'Open Letter' track, making a fool of himself)

I think his money comes from touring and other musical contracts, but thats very speculative.
He bought Dame out of Roc-a-wear which was all about him (and at the time about vanish), little did they know that Roc-a-wear still had it's best years ahead of it. And worse with Jay-z's networking would lead to the shytty ass brand lasting, buying other brands and it internationally spreading with Jays sudden international brand spread.

No one of substance has ever claimed that Lyor Cohen had something to do with it.
I know nikkas like to feel that other nikkas are only sheep, to inflict some type of comfort in their own lives. But I think Dame and Jay naturally grew apart cause they had different personalities, visions, backgrounds and at-the-time lifestyles. As far as Rihanna goes, that's all roc-nation right there Ty-Ty and Jay Brown while Jeezy had nothing to do with Jay except friendship. That was Reid And Stewart.

As far as being an Employee, that would only be credit to him. One of the best paid employees of all time lol. Jay signs deals with people, since that's what musicians do. It's not rocket science.
As far as his agency, he's not got the right certificates, since he didn't graduate from collage and on so naturally, he does what someone like Dame Dash can't; he networks and signs contracts to make it possible. Live Nation gives him 150 million as an artist when he's 40 years old to do whatever he wants with no risk and that's supposed to be an L. But it is what it is.

I give props to all nikkas from the hood getting it in the correct way, no matter if they sign contracts or start a new major label (i.e. do what no man has never done, which seems to be the only thing you respect).

 

[wizworld]

Nobody denies Lyor's involvement in the events that led to the break up of the Roc. Lyor was setting up secret meetings behind Dame's back. Lyor had been wanted Dame out of the picture.

As much as people act like Jay is an excellent exec, Jay is an flop of a hip hop exec. Most of his wealth comes from selling off assets of the Rocafella dynasty that he and Dame built together (I suspect that was mostly Dame.), public and backdoor endorsements due to his icon status, and getting good deals cause his friendships with the head execs in music. Don't act like Jay played a major part on building up Rihanna, Def Jam is a big bureaucracy and project Rihanna was already in progress when Jay stepped into the picture. The biggest thing Jay did as President of Def Jam was lure Jeezy and Rick Ross away from Diddy and Birdman.

At the end of the day Dame and Jay did have different goals; Dame want to be on the same level as Sony/RCA, Universal, Interscope, and CAA in this music and entertainments shyt; Jay had no problem being under these dudes he just wanted to be higher in the hierarchy with a higher pay grade.

People act like Jay is a boss in his endeavors, when he's just a high paid employee. Jay is an employee of Live Nation, and employee of CAA, he had a minor ownership of the Nets, but at the end of the day it was exposed he was basically an employee (which is why he got so defensive on that 'Open Letter' track, making a fool of himself)

Bleh. N!ggas love these employee/boss analogies but even Oprah was an employee as of 2011 (ABC). She also starred in a "The Butler" which again would place her in the "employee" role. These distinctions become excessively nitpicky especially when speaking about someone as wildly successful as Jay. I agree that he hasn't proved to be a great hip hop executive but don't you feel silly when you say
"Oh all he did was this and this and that and then that and then this after that BUT he's not really as big of a deal as people think he is"

 

[ignorethis]

Bleh. N!ggas love these employee/boss analogies but even Oprah was an employee as of 2011 (ABC). She also starred in a "The Butler" which again would place her in the "employee" role. These distinctions become excessively nitpicky especially when speaking about someone as wildly successful as Jay. I agree that he hasn't proved to be a great hip hop executive but don't you feel silly when you say
"Oh all he did was this and this and that and then that and then this after that BUT he's not really as big of a deal as people think he is"

I don't deify people for raising there standards of life. People idolized these celebrities for things that petty in the grand scheme of things, that why I criticized them so vehemently.

Oprah is seen as a success story over here but in the grand scheme of things she has very little ownership, which is the difference between Dangote being able to build colleges and Oprah being able to build a middle school in Africa.

I understand they have different careers and levels of resources, but it seems like people are super comfortable with the ideas of blacks having little to no ownership in the U.S public and private sectors.

I give props to all nikkas from the hood getting it in the correct way, no matter if they sign contracts or start a new major label (i.e. do what no man has never done, which seems to be the only thing you respect).

No black man has ever done, but that doesn't mean its impossible and shouldn't be something we hope to see accomplished. You mean in a world were two of the biggest pop stars in the world are Negros with modest beginnings, and hip hop is become more global and mass marketed, we can't have a black owned major label?
That's why I'll always respect dudes like Dame and J. Prince for even attempting to make it a reality.

I don't know what Jay will accomplish it the future so I'm not crucifying him yet, but the designation between owner and employee is a big deal to me. And as much as Jay stans deny it, it's a big deal to him as well, or else he wouldn't gotten so defensive when the media called him out on it.

 

[↓R↑LYB]

Because we believed in [Reasonable Doubt] so much, you couldn’t even tell me that it wasn’t going to be the best album that was ever made. It’s funny because it became that. Years later when you reflect, you’re like, you were so arrogant and everyone said you were a f*cking @sshole because you were so arrogant but I was right.

I said ‘he will be the greatest rapper of all time’. I said that 15 years ago not to put it all on me. It was a lot of fighting. It was at a time when people told me he was the worst rapper. I had been shopping him and everyone told me he raps too fast so I said I’ll just do it myself. I always go back to that now. Once we got into business, other people made money off of what we did and we had partners. All we did was become a slave to their agendas and we didn’t even realize it. I just remembered being manipulated just because we were young. I remember certain little things that were done to manipulate…some worked and some didn’t. I’ve seen a lot of people that I care about get twisted. Those days were fun because I respected everybody 100% so it was unconditional love, no jade. I miss those days.

On his current business relationship with Jay-z
No matter what, we’re still in business together because me, Biggs and Jay still own “Reasonable Doubt.” That was our independent record and that was the one I fought so hard to own and it’s the only one that still sells because it was that good, it was when we were pure. If it was coke, it was pure A1, grade A, uncut coke. The other ones were like, “we’re just trying to sell records”. That one was like, “I’m going to make an album and quit” and that was that. Alright, that was gangsta that will be the best one ever made’. We fought hard for that one; that was the one we fought the hardest for, so yeah, it’s the best.

Jay-z pegs ‘Reasonable Doubt’ as his ‘baby’. In an interview with XXL, he revealed that if he was given 100% ownership of the masters to ‘Reasonable Doubt’ he would have given up the rest of his masters, his position at Def Jam and Roc-a-fella Records.

So I was like, let me get Reasonable Doubt and I’ll give up [the rest of] my masters. I’ll give up Roc-A-Fella Records, I’ll give up president and CEO of Def Jam Recordings—everything. Just give me my baby to hold on to so 10 years down the line, I can look back and I got something—I’m not empty-handed. And I was the one being offered everything. I thought it was more than fair… And when that was turned down, I had to make a choice. I’ll leave that for the people to say what choice they would’ve made. That’s about it. I don’t really wanna talk about Dame or Biggs. I don’t have nothing negative to say about them.
​

I woulda done the same thing

 

[DontEemTry]

Id always look at that nikka funny style if I was Kanye.

He put Ye on BP2. If you was listenin to his verse on "The Bounce" would you think son could rap?

 

[OnlyInCalifornia]

Nah employee of CAA,

It's a legit partnership.

 

[Harry B]

I don't deify people for raising there standards of life. People idolized these celebrities for things that petty in the grand scheme of things, that why I criticized them so vehemently.

Oprah is seen as a success story over here but in the grand scheme of things she has very little ownership, which is the difference between Dangote being able to build colleges and Oprah being able to build a middle school in Africa.

I understand they have different careers and levels of resources, but it seems like people are super comfortable with the ideas of blacks having little to no ownership in the U.S public and private sectors.



No black man has ever done, but that doesn't mean its impossible and shouldn't be something we hope to see accomplished. You mean in a world were two of the biggest pop stars in the world are Negros with modest beginnings, and hip hop is become more global and mass marketed, we can't have a black owned major label?
That's why I'll always respect dudes like Dame and J. Prince for even attempting to make it a reality.

I don't know what Jay will accomplish it the future so I'm not crucifying him yet, but the designation between owner and employee is a big deal to me. And as much as Jay stans deny it, it's a big deal to him as well, or else he wouldn't gotten so defensive when the media called him out on it.

No man had ever created a major record label.
Sony is a string of smaller labels, it's also one of the worlds biggest companies. Universal is also a string of many smaller companies all merged into one company owned by a multi billion dollar conglomerate. Warner Brothers took over half a century to become a large company and they already had their foot in all media though TimeWarnwr which was created through a long sequence of M&A's. Those 3 are the major labels and what they have in common is that they are all public companies, ie owned by whoever logs on to their reading account and buys their shares.

I think Jay-z understands that u need a century and and an excessive amount of billions to box with those 3 entities. At most you could do something under a major label which they already did with the roc and after 10 years all they had was Jay and Kanye, cams sales had already decreased by 50%. I think Jay is happy with what he's doing now, working in a tight ship with 1 boss who does deals with other bosses. He still owns his shyt, his music, roc nation, roc nation sports, translation llc, restaurants, properties which houses restaurants and hotels, his rocawear share and on and on. An important rule I'm business is to spread your wealth, Jay-z is obviously trusting that advice religiously.

This discussion is too deep for Internet though, we can conclude that you have more respect for people who try and I have more respect for people who achieve.

 

[wizworld]

I don't deify people for raising there standards of life. People idolized these celebrities for things that petty in the grand scheme of things, that why I criticized them so vehemently.

Oprah is seen as a success story over here but in the grand scheme of things she has very little ownership, which is the difference between Dangote being able to build colleges and Oprah being able to build a middle school in Africa.

I understand they have different careers and levels of resources, but it seems like people are super comfortable with the ideas of blacks having little to no ownership in the U.S public and private sectors.



No black man has ever done, but that doesn't mean its impossible and shouldn't be something we hope to see accomplished. You mean in a world were two of the biggest pop stars in the world are Negros with modest beginnings, and hip hop is become more global and mass marketed, we can't have a black owned major label?
That's why I'll always respect dudes like Dame and J. Prince for even attempting to make it a reality.

I don't know what Jay will accomplish it the future so I'm not crucifying him yet, but the designation between owner and employee is a big deal to me. And as much as Jay stans deny it, it's a big deal to him as well, or else he wouldn't gotten so defensive when the media called him out on it.

"Oprah is seen as a success story over here but in the grand scheme of things" lol I had to stop there.
Nah I'm lying I glanced over the rest of your post, saw "I don't know what Jay will accomplish in the future so I'm not crucifying him yet" and I laughed again.

Just gives me the impression that you aren't playing with a full deck.

 

[ignorethis]

"Oprah is seen as a success story over here but in the grand scheme of things" lol I had to stop there.
Nah I'm lying I glanced over the rest of your post, saw "I don't know what Jay will accomplish in the future so I'm not crucifying him yet" and I laughed again.

Just gives me the impression that you aren't playing with a full deck.

Oprah ain't even one of the top 5 negros wealth wise, nor does it look like she'll ever enter that realm. Every negro with real wealth and power is foreign born, what does it mean when the wealthiest nation in the world doesn't have a single black in the top ten?

You guys keep thinking these entertainers are making major moves, apparently their PR machines are doing a good job.

 

[L&HH]

Yall notice wayne got super hot when he started fukkin with dipset
I bet Santana gotta jump through hoops just to get wayne on the phone now

Nah Santana blew that himself. Wayne said it, he would send songs to the nikka and they'd never get sent back. Those songs ended up becoming Like Father Like Son or whatever...Why would wayne waste his time on something he tried to do and failed in the past and Juelz in't even hot anymore

 

[seemorecizzy]

jay was being a snake and he knew it, so tried to redeem himself with that roc a fella offer. it was a hell of a deal and in retrospect, i'm sure if dame coulda went back he woulda took it. I Think dame and biggs were just hurt. probably woulda turned down any offer at that time

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

It seems far fetched to us but not to white people. Which is why we always come back to wealth vs being rich

Oprah is a billionaire. You think she couldn't have said fukk abc 10-15 years ago and made her own network and put the exact same show on but owned it?

Look at cash money. They just resigned with universal. All that stunting baby does and he couldn't have said fukk that, and owned his own shyt and just paid for a distributor??


I don't have the answers. Sorry sway. But the point is blacks as a whole are HAPPY to sign a contract (sports, entertainment) rather than try and own their own shyt.

Yea it would take forever to get on that level. Maybe 50, 100, 150 years but that's the point of generational wealth. It takes many generations with the same goal.

So one day some kid with your last name owns a billion dollar company that says "since 2013" but it's the year 2134