Can Muslims and Christians both be right?

[the cac mamba]

I feel like there's a relatively simple approach to take to this (all while assuming that the abrahamic god and jesus were real )

Jesus either was god/gods son, or he was not. Since both sides have a different interpretation of that, they can't both be right. logic would dictate that:

-One of the sides is incorrect, therefore justifying any and all criticism of that particular religion

-They have different interpretations, but at the end of the day the abrahamic god will look past that (). which renders any and all disagreements, beefs, and violence between these groups as unnecessary and disgusting, while proving that the emphasis they place on their religions is actually completely unimportant

so which is it

 

[Thsnnor]

I feel like there's a relatively simple approach to take to this (all while assuming that the abrahamic god and jesus were real )

Jesus either was god/gods son, or he was not. Since both sides have a different interpretation of that, they can't both be right. logic would dictate that:

-One of the sides is incorrect, therefore justifying any and all criticism of that particular religion

-They have different interpretations, but at the end of the day the abrahamic god will look past that (). which renders any and all disagreements, beefs, and violence between these groups as unnecessary and disgusting, while proving that the emphasis they place on their religions is actually completely unimportant

so which is it

No. They can't both be right.

 

[the cac mamba]

No. They can't both be right.

word refreshing honesty. i agree

 

[Thsnnor]

word refreshing honesty. i agree

I believe the main issue is Islam came 600 years after Christianity. There was a lot teachings Jesus had laid out still around. Nero tried to wipe it out but could not. Even Constantine when he started the RCC is older but he did it for the power. Even directions were given if mohammed had doubts or questions.

Mohammed was instructed by Allah as to where to get his advice when he had doubts:

Sura 10:94 If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt.

Truth has no conflict. This verse contains one tho.

 

[the cac mamba]

1 response

people dont wanna admit that even if christians or muslims are right, the other half cant be too

 

[unseen]

shirk (holding others as equal or partners with God, i.e. - jesus) is the only unforgivable sin in islam. so no God won't simply look past it.

 

[Thsnnor]

In Christianity you can know and be assured of your salvation. All others are works based and you must go to god. I've said in Christianity God came to us and in ALL others you MUST go to god.

One thing I’ve always wondered about Islam is if allah said Jesus is one of his prophets and 1.) the koran talks about Jesus more than mohammed why don't muslims believe what He has said. 2.) Jesus said He is the Son of God. Allah said he doesn't have any children (despite the two daughters). Allah said he gave the words to ALL the former prophets before. Who is wrong? Allah? Jesus? or Mohammed? according to what has been revealed someone is lying. 3.)What was mohammeds prophecy? All prophets have a prophecy.

 

[tmonster]

1 response

people dont wanna admit that even if christians or muslims are right, the other half cant be too

I am right
I believe in Joe Pesci

 

[Type Username Here]

I'm sure Islam is much more in line with the historical jesus (still dead wrong though).

No one outside of Christians, and theologians who make money from Christians, thinks pass-me-down stories told and written down by people with clear motives, decades and centuries after obviously impossible supernatural events, as having any true credibility. Then couple that with the fact that there was severe editing, cutting, and re-arrangement of these texts by Roman and Catholic figures, should only add cast more doubt on it. Funny thing is, that Christians usually use this criticism I've laid out here as proof why Islam is wrong about jesus. Cognitive dissonance is beautiful isn't it?

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

'm sure Islam is much more in line with the historical jesus (still dead wrong though).

Wrong by about 600 years.
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No one outside of Christians, and theologians who make money from Christians, thinks pass-me-down stories told and written down by people with clear motives, decades and centuries after obviously impossible supernatural events, as having any true credibility

Wrong. The Ancient Near East/Levant history faculties of EVERY major university disagree with you. The Ancient Greek history faculties of EVERY major university disagree with you. The Ancient Roman history faculties of EVERY major university disagree with you. The Ancient Egyptian history faculties of EVERY major university disagree with you. Pretty much, every historian (theist and non) on the planet disagrees with you aside from some extremists/amateur hyper-critics with agendas (like you) and very little understanding of historical research (also, like you).
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Then couple that with the fact that there was severe editing, cutting, and re-arrangement of these texts by Roman and Catholic figures, should only add cast more doubt on it.

Except for the fact that every single book of the NT was referred to/quoted from about 100+ years before Christians were capable or had the power to do any of what you suggest since they were being persecuted/killed for their belief until the 4th Century CE. All prior copies/manuscripts of the Books have the same writing as those after the Catholic Church had any type of power and were corroborated by outside sources so, unless Christians had the power to go back in time to edit/copy/paste/re-arrange those texts and mind-control their critics, your 'facts' don't add-up.

http://www.cbl.ie/getdoc/71d8acd7-5e05-4a98-aede-9c716e193bf1/3.aspx

The Acts of the Apostles (8:34 - 9:6)
Greek text on papyrus c.AD 250 Egypt

This image shows a page from another famous Chester Beatty papyrus, Biblical Papyrus I, a copy of the Four Gospels and Acts of the Apostles. This is the earliest surviving copy of these New Testament texts found in a single volume.

​

 

[Type Username Here]

Wrong by about 600 years.
​

Wrong. The Ancient Near East/Levant history faculties of EVERY major university disagree with you. The Ancient Greek history faculties of EVERY major university disagree with you. The Ancient Roman history faculties of EVERY major university disagree with you. The Ancient Egyptian history faculties of EVERY major university disagree with you. Pretty much, every historian (theist and non) on the planet disagrees with you aside from some extremists/amateur hyper-critics with agendas (like you) and very little understanding of historical research (also, like you).
​

Except for the fact that every single book of the NT was referred to/quoted from about 100+ years before Christians were capable or had the power to do any of what you suggest since they were being persecuted/killed for their belief until the 4th Century CE. All prior copies/manuscripts of the Books have the same writing as those after the Catholic Church had any type of power and were corroborated by outside sources so, unless Christians had the power to go back in time to edit/copy/paste/re-arrange those texts and mind-control their critics, your 'facts' don't add-up.

http://www.cbl.ie/getdoc/71d8acd7-5e05-4a98-aede-9c716e193bf1/3.aspx

The Acts of the Apostles (8:34 - 9:6)
Greek text on papyrus c.AD 250 Egypt

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You still got nerve to debate topics about Christianity after the embarrassment you put up last time? Citing sources that contradicted your own claims? Last time you made claims about historians and theologians agreeing with you, you made do some calculated research and I realized how full of shyt you are. Peddling Christianity as historical fact

Nothing you said here refutes anything I said. I never said the texts were not written that eventually came to be known as the New Testament, which is what your strawman is. I said they are false and disingenuous writings. They were written by people with clear motives and agenda (which you humorously accuse me of). It was to retell a story that they believe to be true. It's not credible in any fashion outside of extracting elements of culture, language and way of life(which can and is done with with other works of fiction besides the bible).

Islam has a much more realistic and grounded take on Jesus that didn't involve all magic fairy tales. Disprove their claims if you wish, that is the point of this thread. They don't at least believe in the absurd concept of the trinity which is one of the biggest jokes in the history of human civilization.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

A rambling wall of emotions.

You must have forgot that I bodied you the last time you decided to open your mouth about this subject and your last words were something to the effect of 'I'll get you next time, Gadget. Next time.'

Stick to Engineering. History is not your forté.


​

 

[I.AM.PIFF]

In Christianity you can know and be assured of your salvation. All others are works based and you must go to god. I've said in Christianity God came to us and in ALL others you MUST go to god.

Aren't there tenets in Christianity or is the simple belief in God means you're saved, regardless of your actions? Wouldn't God love those who do what he ordered them and avoid what he forbade them?

Paradise and salvation are rewards we have to obtain by following God's orders. Being a reward, we MUST prove we deserve it by doing works God told us to do and for us to seek his salvation and mercy with our deeds and belief.

One thing I’ve always wondered about Islam is if allah said Jesus is one of his prophets and 1.) the koran talks about Jesus more than mohammed why don't muslims believe what He has said. 2.) Jesus said He is the Son of God. Allah said he doesn't have any children (despite the two daughters). Allah said he gave the words to ALL the former prophets before. Who is wrong? Allah? Jesus? or Mohammed? according to what has been revealed someone is lying. 3.)What was mohammeds prophecy? All prophets have a prophecy.

1 - Yes, Jesus (PBUH) is a prophet of God and one of the 5 main messengers of Allah, the others being Noah (PBUH), Abraham (PBUH), Moses (PBUH) and Muhammad (PBUH). He's hold in very high esteem and is considered the Messiah of end times. The teachings of Islam are in line with Jesus' message of strict monotheism and submission to God.

2 - Christianity has been corrupted and I don't see how Jesus (PBUH) would've declared himself as God's son, rather than being his prophet. Allah/God has no daughters, what you reffered to was Arab Jahiliya (age of ignorance) paganist beliefs

3 - Muhammad (PBUH) prophecies can be found in the hadiths and his sayings.

http://www.iqra.net/Hadith/prophecy.php

And the Quran sent by God to his messenger is his ultimate miracle

 

[Snitchin Splatter]

Aren't there tenets in Christianity or is the simple belief in God means you're saved, regardless of your actions? Wouldn't God love those who do what he ordered them and avoid what he forbade them?

Paradise and salvation are rewards we have to obtain by following God's orders. Being a reward, we MUST prove we deserve it by doing works God told us to do and for us to seek his salvation and mercy with our deeds and belief.



1 - Yes, Jesus (PBUH) is a prophet of God and one of the 5 main messengers of Allah, the others being Noah (PBUH), Abraham (PBUH), Moses (PBUH) and Muhammad (PBUH). He's hold in very high esteem and is considered the Messiah of end times. The teachings of Islam are in line with Jesus' message of strict monotheism and submission to God.

2 - Christianity has been corrupted and I don't see how Jesus (PBUH) would've declared himself as God's son, rather than being his prophet. Allah/God has no daughters, what you reffered to was Arab Jahiliya (age of ignorance) paganist beliefs

3 - Muhammad (PBUH) prophecies can be found in the hadiths and his sayings.

http://www.iqra.net/Hadith/prophecy.php

And the Quran sent by God to his messenger is his ultimate miracle

If you honestly believe these bolded points, Jesus states EMPHATICALLY SEVERAL TIMES that he is the one and only son of god, that he was there in the begining and will be there in the end, that no man can come through god the father but through him

all other arguments aside if people of the islamic faith believe jesus was a prophet, how do they discredit his message that you must accept his sacrifice as a go through to god the father... as if he never mentioned it?

 

[I.AM.PIFF]

If you honestly believe these bolded points, Jesus states EMPHATICALLY SEVERAL TIMES that he is the one and only son of god, that he was there in the begining and will be there in the end, that no man can come through god the father but through him

all other arguments aside if people of the islamic faith believe jesus was a prophet, how do they discredit his message that you must accept his sacrifice as a go through to god the father... as if he never mentioned it?

State that in what? I believe the bible as it is now has been corrupted and altered and Jesus (PBUH) wasn't the son of God, or his spirit or whatever. His message was of monotheistic nature and submission to god, not to worship him or, sic, elevate him to the status of God.

Jesus (PBUH) was a prophet like many before him: a mortal man chosen by God to deliver his message. No muslim discredit Jesus (PBUH) message, we just believe that his teachings have been corrupted after him and that Islam is the natural continuation of his original message which, like I said earlier, is the belief that there's one God, which no son/daughter or accomplic/equal. Had the prophets messages not been altered or disregarded, there'd be no need to send prophets and messengers to guide people to the right path.