Can We Admit, Jamis Winston has been a Disappointment?

[Dr. Narcisse]

actually that's not because of his throwing motion. It's actually because of his finger. He'll never throw perfect spirals and everyone has known that since his freshman year of college.



Meet Jameis Winston's crooked finger

This is true..

Part of the reason he prefers throwing more down the field throws. I think because of his finger the ball sails on his shorter throws. Those are usually snap and release to type throws for other qbs. Important to strengthen his mechanics elsewhere to compensate for it.

I still think he's improved his mechanics from last year.

 

[horizon]

Bucs head coach Dirk Koetter on QB Jameis Winston:



That's his head coach talking, again Jameis isn't a bust or a bum but he's been mediocre and yes a disappointment

Sounds like Jim Mora talking about Peyton Manning tbh

 

[lutha]

And you don't want to examine his individual play at all. You're much more comfortable blaming everybody else for not being great. I've already acknowledged numerous times that he doesn't have a great team, maybe not even a good team. But Jameis hasn't held up his end of the bargain either and statistically and looking at his in game decision making he's been average. That's not the end of the world for a QB in the middle of his second yr, but the expectations were/are a lot higher for him based on what he's supposed to be

You were making up shyt. You made it seem like the Vick/Schaub thing was a worthy talking point but it was over two meaningless regular season games. It's irrelevant to how Jameis Winston is playing in Tampa Bay in 2016

I'm not a Bucs fan so I don't have personal expectations for Jameis. As a highly talented, highly touted #1 overall pick I would expect him to be further along than where he is now. When Jameis was putting up big numbers in the same offense last year, he got nothing but praise, but he's not playing as well and you and others are unwilling to call him on it. When you're 25th or 28th in something in a league with 32 starting QBs that isn't good or trending to be good. He should be better than that based on his play. It's not always everybody else's fault when he doesn't play well

But it's clear we have a difference of opinion on how to judge him that's why I said what are we arguing/debating. You don't judge him the way I do and that's cool, I do think he's been mediocre but as others have said it's still very early in his career but I don't think it's too early to give an assessment of his play so far

i have no problem talking about his individual performance and even mentioned in this thread that he has shyt to work on.....and you're more comfortable making shyt up to try to knock him down...i say that cause he had one of the best rookie seasons ever, but to you he didnt hold up his end of the bargain and has just been avg...lol ok....

nope didnt make shyt up, was pointing out how the narrative differs for black qbs vs their counterparts...and like i said: it was an example for a more general statement...

that makes no sense....saying you expected him to be at a certain level as a #1 pick is having expectations, doesnt matter if you a bucs fan or not.....as for his numbers: he's on pace to put up similar, if not better numbers, this year than last, so what are you talking about?....also, people have called him out on having to play better, we just arent calling him mediocre/a disappointment like you and the op....

curious: did you think the same thing about about matt ryan his first 2 years?....i ask cause if you think this for jameis and he's had a better first 2 years than matt, that means you thought this about him too, right?....if not, why not? what's the difference?...

 

[LinusCaldwell]

@Franklin Hatchett @Jutt come defend this

 

[AVXL]

i have no problem talking about his individual performance and even mentioned in this thread that he has shyt to work on.....and you're more comfortable making shyt up to try to knock him down...i say that cause he had one of the best rookie seasons ever, but to you he didnt hold up his end of the bargain and has just been avg...lol ok....

I haven't made shyt up about Jameis and statistically he's been below average in many categories this yr. But I guess it's the coaches fault why he's tied for the 3rd most INTs in the league

nope didnt make shyt up, was pointing out how the narrative differs for black qbs vs their counterparts...and like i said: it was an example for a more general statement...

that makes no sense....saying you expected him to be at a certain level as a #1 pick is having expectations, doesnt matter if you a bucs fan or not.....as for his numbers: he's on pace to put up similar, if not better numbers, this year than last, so what are you talking about?....also, people have called him out on having to play better, we just arent calling him mediocre/a disappointment like you and the op....

As I keep trying to tell you but apparently isn't getting through, I had no personal expectations for Jameis. In a very general way, I expect highly touted & highly talented #1 picks like Jameis to play better than how he's playing now.

curious: did you think the same thing about about matt ryan his first 2 years?....i ask cause if you think this for jameis and he's had a better first 2 years than matt, that means you thought this about him too, right?....if not, why not? what's the difference?...

I didn't blame all of Matt's mistakes on coaching, lack of personnel or anything else. I looked at a young QB who needed to continue to develop. If someone had called Matt average (which many people still do) I would say that he's slightly better than that because he kept his turnovers done, was accurate and managed the game well. He also lead us to back to back winning seasons for the first time ever, including a playoff trip. He was a winner out the gate with minimal pieces, can't say that about Jameis

 

[Kang Deezy]

They improved period. Now it's how much.

Yall dudes are too pressed to judge in the middle of growth. Disappointment? he hasn't played long enough to even derive that.

If you're so confident in him, why he riding the bench on your fantasy team?

 

[lutha]

I haven't made shyt up about Jameis and statistically he's been below average in many categories this yr. But I guess it's the coaches fault why he's tied for the 3rd most INTs in the league

As I keep trying to tell you but apparently isn't getting through, I had no personal expectations for Jameis. In a very general way, I expect highly touted & highly talented #1 picks like Jameis to play better than how he's playing now.

I didn't blame all of Matt's mistakes on coaching, lack of personnel or anything else. I looked at a young QB who needed to continue to develop. If someone had called Matt average (which many people still do) I would say that he's slightly better than that because he kept his turnovers done, was accurate and managed the game well. He also lead us to back to back winning seasons for the first time ever, including a playoff trip. He was a winner out the gate with minimal pieces, can't say that about Jameis

so even though he had one of the best rookie seasons ever, and is on pace to have better numbers this season, since he is currently 3rd in ints and below avg in like 2 other categories, he's been mediocre/a disappointment so far in the league?.....lol aight man...

what the fukk?!?!?......it doesnt matter if the expectations are personal or general, if you expect something, that is having expectations....hell, you using part of the word when you say you generally expect...what part of that dont you understand?....

with all that said, you didnt answer my question: i asked did you call matt ryan mediocre/a disappointment during his 2nd year in the league?....jameis has put up better numbers than him so far his first 2 years, and you're calling him that, did you call matt ryan that?....

 

[AVXL]

so even though he had one of the best rookie seasons ever, and is on pace to have better numbers this season, since he is currently 3rd in ints and below avg in like 2 other categories, he's been mediocre/a disappointment so far in the league?.....lol aight man...

You acting like QB rating, turnovers & completion percentage are insignificant when judging a QB he's been below average to terrible in those categories. But as usual you'll disregard the stats you don't like because it doesn't fit your narrative.

what the fukk?!?!?......it doesnt matter if the expectations are personal or general, if you expect something, that is having expectations....hell, you using part of the word when you say you generally expect...what part of that dont you understand?....

You know what. You're right. I would hope no football fan would expect their QB to be the 25th in QB rating and 28th in completion percentage or have the 3rd most INTs in football. But people like you, who accept mediocrity and sub par QB play and then make excuses for that QB, have the expectation that losing records and passing for a lot of yards is ok from the QB because it's somebody else's fault. Gotcha

with all that said, you didnt answer my question: i asked did you call matt ryan mediocre/a disappointment during his 2nd year in the league?....jameis has put up better numbers than him so far his first 2 years, and you're calling him that, did you call matt ryan that?....

No the mediocre/disappointment question never came up because he was too busy leading us to back to back winning seasons with fewer INTs than Jameis, a better completion percentage and a better rating. So no as a Falcons fan we called him a success

 

[HarlemUSA]

If you're so confident in him, why he riding the bench on your fantasy team?

you deadass serious too

 

[LinusCaldwell]

Matt Ryan had one of the goat TE's and a top 15 WR. Now he got arguably top 2 WR.

 

[AVXL]

Matt Ryan had one of the goat TE's and a top 15 WR. Now he got arguably top 2 WR.

Yea Matt had a past his prime Tony Gonzalez (still really good but past his prime nonetheless) and Roddy was top 10 at his peak. Julio is arguably the best in the league, but what does Matt Ryan, MVP candidate, have to do with Jameis Winston?

 

[LinusCaldwell]

Yea Matt had a past his prime Tony Gonzalez (still really good but past his prime nonetheless) and Roddy was top 10 at his peak. Julio is arguably the best in the league, but what does Matt Ryan, MVP candidate, have to do with Jameis Winston?

Y'all making the comparisons I'm just adding the facts.

 

[lutha]

You acting like QB rating, turnovers & completion percentage are insignificant when judging a QB he's been below average to terrible in those categories. But as usual you'll disregard the stats you don't like because it doesn't fit your narrative.

You know what. You're right. I would hope no football fan would expect their QB to be the 25th in QB rating and 28th in completion percentage or have the 3rd most INTs in football. But people like you, who accept mediocrity and sub par QB play and then make excuses for that QB, have the expectation that losing records and passing for a lot of yards is ok from the QB because it's somebody else's fault. Gotcha

No the mediocre/disappointment question never came up because he was too busy leading us to back to back winning seasons with fewer INTs than Jameis, a better completion percentage and a better rating. So no as a Falcons fan we called him a success

completion % is a garbage stat to judge off of...you can have a high % cause you only dink/donk, but that doesnt mean you're a good qb....as for turnovers and rating, no they dont tell the whole story, but i dont disregard them either....let's look at them, and include tds & yards too since you mentioned them:

1st year
ryan - 13 turn (11 int, 2 fum), 87.7 rating, 17 tds (16 pass, 1 run), 61.1%, 3544 yds (3440 pass, 104 run)
winston - 19 turn (15 int, 4 fum), 84.2 rating, 28 tds (22 pass, 6 run), 58.3%, 4255 yds (4042 pass, 213 run)

2nd year
ryan - 19 turn (14 ints, 5 fum), 80.9 rating, 23 tds (22 pass, 1 run), 58.3%, 2965 yds (2916 pass, 49 run)
winston (so far) - 11 turn (9 ints, 2 fum), 81.9 rating, 15 tds (14 pass, 1 run), 58.7%, 1841 yds (1776 pass, 65 run)

looks like winston has been better to me, and is doing pretty good with a not so talented team and lack of coaching experience....

who said anything about excepting losing records and sub par play?...i surely didnt...i've just said that i wouldnt call winston a disappointment/mediocre in his 2nd year and when the rest of the team is some shyt...

so even though winston's first 2 years are better, since ryan's team was more talented and better, that makes him a success and winston mediocre?....lol aight man....

 

[Jutt]

@Franklin Hatchett @Jutt come defend this

Ts is a fukking moron. Nothing really needs to be said

 

[Self_Born7]

key injuries are hurting him..... bad
I fuggs with Jameis now... Cam and his all lives matter is