Classics Discussion: Too $hort

[bigbadbossup2012]

obviously

Run along, little troll. It's been fun. See you again soon.

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

Lol it's always this argument, but I have no shame anyway

I was barely 2 when Illmatic came out

I remember blasting the hell out of NY State of Mind when I was in my cot...gr8 times

Also on the subject of age, Illmatic and OB4CL have stood the test of time, nobody remembers Too Short's stuff other than nostalgic Bay residers. Other West Coast albums have held up better.

This is simply not true. Too Short had reach across the map, even in NY. The way his underground tapes circulated across the country (Detroit, Houston, even up to Philly) is legendary. If Too Short was never relevant why did the biggest NY artists (Jay-Z and Biggie) work with him at the peak of their careers well after the peak of Too Short's career?

I'm not going any further with this discussion, your argument literally does not hold water.

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

I gave my opinion on Too Short on the first page. No classics or anything remotely close. I can't even do a Top 5 songs for dude because I only like (and hear) one song of his.

Be for real, you've listened to at most 1 Too Short album maybe once all the way through.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

This is simply not true. Too Short had reach across the map, even in NY. The way his underground tapes circulated across the country (Detroit, Houston, even up to Philly) is legendary. If Too Short was never relevant why did the biggest NY artists (Jay-Z and Biggie) work with him at the peak of their careers well after the peak of Too Short's career?

I'm not going any further with this discussion, your argument literally does not hold water.

I'm talking about NOW bruh

Where are his album anniversary tours? Where are his special re-releases?

Illmatic and OB4CL have those. Maybe I was being harsh when restricting his significance to just The Bay, but other WC albums have definitely held up better. Why are none of his albums held with the same regard as AEOM, Chronic, Doggystyle etc.?

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

I'm from east Oakland and listen to illmatic at least ten times a year, and that's before I even stumbled across this board and found out how revered it is. Same with Goodie Mobb's, Soul Food. Outside of those socially conscious songs he had back in the 80's, I haven't really bumped Short much at all in 15 years. The only reason I even started listening to them again is because I recently got a TV in my car and had an old DVD of bias that I uploaded to it. I'm not even a Hip Hop head liked that either, you'll find me listening to rap over Hip Hop 8/10 times if you're with me. I've already bumped Marveless', Wicced Streets all the way through on two separate occasions this year. Short has had a great run not just out here in the bay and his mark is huge, but nobody is really checking for him or his old albums like that anymore. I think we all see where you're coming from, but for this conversation, the definition of classic is just being used differently, hence why I made sure to say that they're all personal "classics" even though I probably haven't listened to an entire Short album in wells a decade.

That's a strawman argument, the same can be said for just about any rap album and artist from the 80's. No millenials or the vast majority of 90s babies are listening to Eric B & Rakim, EPMD, Kool G Rap, etc. Are any of their projects a classic for your average teenage or 25 yr old hip hop fan? No. They possibly might be for a New York teen or a New York 90s baby... No different than what you're trying to say about Too Short.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

I'm talking about NOW bruh

Where are his album anniversary tours? Where are his special re-releases?

Illmatic and OB4CL have those. Maybe I was being harsh when restricting his significance to just The Bay, but other WC albums have definitely held up better. Why are none of his albums held with the same regard as AEOM, Chronic, Doggystyle etc.?

nikka i told you why. They never got the same push from these mags etc. There's never been media outlets or big radio personalities bigging these album up and like illmatic or OB4CL.
There have been media campaigns bigging up them east coast albums from the past 20 years. No west coast artists got the same love unless they were huge super stars or the projects were huge. The only west coast albums that get respect are the ones that forced nikkas to lean back or catered to a ny sound..
Therefore nikkas like you (no shot) can believe them albums are more than what they are. THE REAL QUESTION is if these albums are as big as they say they are,why did they perform like bottom feeders at retail
East coast bias media treats outsiders how white supremacy treats black people

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

That's a strawman argument, the same can be said for just about any rap album and artist from the 80's. No millenials or the vast majority of 90s babies are listening to Eric B & Rakim, EPMD, Kool G Rap, etc. Are any of their projects a classic for your average teenage or 25 yr old hip hop fan? No. They possibly might be for a New York teen or a New York 90s baby... No different than what you're trying to say about Too Short.

He's not black

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

I'm talking about NOW bruh

Where are his album anniversary tours? Where are his special re-releases?

Illmatic and OB4CL have those. Maybe I was being harsh when restricting his significance to just The Bay, but other WC albums have definitely held up better. Why are none of his albums held with the same regard as AEOM, Chronic, Doggystyle etc.?

Born To Mack is held in that regard by the artists that CREATED Doggystyle and AEOM. The disconnect for you is that Too Short is before your time and Hip Hop media does not bring him up because he always catered to a B market. That does not make his material any less classic.

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

On a different note, the percentages on the poll appear to be screwed up. BTM has 28 yes votes out of 35 (80%) but somehow the percentage is 66.7%. Ditto on Life Is Too Short with 31/37 yes votes (83.7%).

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

nikka i told you why. They never got the same push from these mags etc. There's never been media outlets or big radio personalities bigging these album up and like illmatic or OB4CL.
There have been media campaigns bigging up them east coast albums from the past 20 years. No west coast artists got the same love unless they were huge super stars or the projects were huge. The only west coast albums that get respect are the ones that forced nikkas to lean back or catered to a ny sound..
Therefore nikkas like you (no shot) can believe them albums are more than what they are. THE REAL QUESTION is if these albums are as big as they say they are,why did they perform like bottom feeders at retail
East coast bias media treats outsiders how white supremacy treats black people

I don't consider sales at all nor do I look into it so I couldn't answer your question

as I said, I believe in your argument regarding East Coast bias, but only to a certain extent

independent of that, my personal definition of classic is that it must have the quality, and I don't think any album of his does

Born To Mack is held in that regard by the artists that CREATED Doggystyle and AEOM. The disconnect for you is that Too Short is before your time and Hip Hop media does not bring him up because he always catered to a B market. That does not make his material any less classic.

perhaps. anyway my barometer for a classic is explained ^ in response to other dude

quality first

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

On a different note, the percentages on the poll appear to be screwed up. BTM has 28 yes votes out of 35 (80%) but somehow the percentage is 66.7%. Ditto on Life Is Too Short with 31/37 yes votes (83.7%).

dw about it I count the percentages properly, I ignore those weird numbers in the poll

 

[Stir Fry]

That's a strawman argument, the same can be said for just about any rap album and artist from the 80's. No millenials or the vast majority of 90s babies are listening to Eric B & Rakim, EPMD, Kool G Rap, etc. Are any of their projects a classic for your average teenage or 25 yr old hip hop fan? No. They possibly might be for a New York teen or a New York 90s baby... No different than what you're trying to say about Too Short.

And I really don't consider any of their albums classics, nor do most people outside of their region It's hard to call most anything a classic simply because everyone's definition of what puts it at that level will never align. I personally have different tiers of classics, I'd put Cocktails alongside Only Built for Cuban Links but Illmatic and The Chronic would be a tier above those two albums.

Born To Mack is held in that regard by the artists that CREATED Doggystyle and AEOM. The disconnect for you is that Too Short is before your time and Hip Hop media does not bring him up because he always catered to a B market. That does not make his material any less classic.

The B-Market classic is a great way to put it, which goes back to the way I do tiers.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

I don't consider sales at all nor do I look into it so I couldn't answer your question

as I said, I believe in your argument regarding East Coast bias, but only to a certain extent

independent of that, my personal definition of classic is that it must have the quality, and I don't think any album of his does



perhaps. anyway my barometer for a classic is explained ^ in response to other dude

quality first

I think quality is more important as well. However,quality is subjective and debatable in an never ending like fashion.
NOW,numbers are more based on fact. Based on what the people actually supported. If the only albums with sales similar to OB4CL and illmatic that get praised like that,come from the same area,that doesnt seem strange to you?
Ask yourself,if illmatic was sooooooooo important,why was scarface,bone,da brat,warren g,murder was the case soundtrack,above the rim soundtrack,coolio,outkast etc pummeling it at retail?

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

I don't consider sales at all nor do I look into it so I couldn't answer your question

as I said, I believe in your argument regarding East Coast bias, but only to a certain extent

independent of that, my personal definition of classic is that it must have the quality, and I don't think any album of his does



perhaps. anyway my barometer for a classic is explained ^ in response to other dude

quality first

A big aspect of whether an album is classic is the impact. The Players EP and Born to Mack had a HUGE impact on the West Coast and the South, even the Midwest. Snoop Dogg's persona is derived from Short, ditto on Pimp C and a gang of other gangsta playa rappers. His influence on the game cannot be understated.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

I think quality is more important as well. However,quality is subjective and debatable in an never ending like fashion.
NOW,numbers are more based on fact. Based on what the people actually supported. If the only albums with sales similar to OB4CL and illmatic that get praised like that,come from the same area,that doesnt seem strange to you?
Ask yourself,if illmatic was sooooooooo important,why was scarface,bone,da brat,warren g,murder was the case soundtrack,above the rim soundtrack,coolio,outkast etc pummeling it at retail?

Ok so hopefully we've cleared up that my reason for no classics for Too Short begins with the fact that the quality isn't enough, but as you said that is subjective so yeah...

yeah the numbers thing seems strange. As I said, sales aren't my concern but I can see how your point relates to bias by EC media.

A big aspect of whether an album is classic is the impact. The Players EP and Born to Mack had a HUGE impact on the West Coast and the South, even the Midwest. Snoop Dogg's persona is derived from Short, ditto on Pimp C and a gang of other gangsta playa rappers. His influence on the game cannot be understated.

no doubt.

but my FIRST barometer personally is quality. If it doesn't pass that test, I don't wanna look at it. That's why I wanted this list in particular to reward the best of the best albums that bring not only all the 'classic' qualities to the table such as impact/originality/influence/relevance etc., but also quality, which is of most importance to me.

otherwise Das EFX would belong as well, and I don't feel they're as deserving as a Mobb Deep for example