Concerning education in Africa

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

I'm just gonna copy and paste what I said in a different thread. The Nigerian Crime Stories Thread This isn't concerning Nigerians specifically, but they're the prime example IMO:

I saw a video a while back stating that Nigerians are the top earners in the US and I think the UK and there were tons of comments understandably proud, saying "We don't play, we value our education", etc and I've always agreed but for once I started questioning why it isn't reflected in the education system I'm starting to view it moreso as a value of individualized, profitable education (doctors, lawyers, bankers, etc) which sends a lot out west, rather than education proper. If it were about education proper, we'd more likely see an education system similar to South Korea/Japan, where there's a huge emphasis and regard for teachers/professors and likewise, a university rivaling the Oxfords and Harvards so many try to go to... Interested in hearing any thoughts​

Additional thoughts:

I guess I mean the culture of education and how it seems to influence the educatoni system. For example, S. Korea, becoming a teacher is arguably the hardest thing you can do, the standards and regards for them is so extreme. In African cultures (not just Nigerian), at least out west, you always hear the joke how if you don't become a doctor or a lawyer you're disgracing your family. I don't think I've ever heard someone say they're studying education, especially if it isn't for universities and it creates what seems like a void for primary and secondary school. Plenty are pursuing other fields, which will definitely be profitable for them personally if they leave, but advancing the overall education at home remains unaddressed.
​

Ultimately I'm interested in hearing which nations are leading continent in educational access and advancement.

 

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

One word: Corruption. A lot of public institutions in Nigeria were well funded and functioning back in the 60s-80s. A lot of that changed with military governments that essentially saw public funds as a private purse. So while at the individual level, there is a relatively high value on education, that value erodes when it comes to the politicians and policy makers.

@ciroq drobama If you do make a thread please tag me in it. I can give my insights as a Nigerian.

This story plays out all over Africa breh. You see the decline that comes between the 60's and 80's throughout. Born of greed and corruption. Our parents attended free schools with better books and everything. How nikkaz go backwards

It sounds like education started to decline post-independence. Does individualism play a role in this at all?

 

[phcitywarrior]

It sounds like education started to decline post-independence. Does individualism play a role in this at all?

Education decline should be looked at as a systematic problem. Really, as corruption became more and more rampant, politicians essentially stole money from all public purses with reckless abandon. Another issue, at least with Nigeria, is oil. The discovery of oil stunted investment to diversify the country's economic mix. Oil is relatively quick and easy money, you don't have to really "work" for it. Just stick a needle in the ground and sell it. Easy peezy.

Why do many people aspire to be doctors, lawyers, engineers, and accountants in Nigeria? Well, for the most part those were the "first" actual professions that people could study for in universities, especially if they went out West (US, UK). Also, those were the more lucrative careers.

 

[get these nets]

Education decline should be looked at as a systematic problem.

I think it would help if you described the present day school system. My family is from a developing country and growing up I was told that there existed no free "public school system" there as it is structured here. I heard this when I was very young and didn't quite understand the details.

For k-12,or the equivalent , what are the 2018 options that parents have in the country your parents are from?

 

[phcitywarrior]

I think it would help if you described the present day school system. My family is from a developing country and growing up I was told that there existed no free "public school system" there as it is structured here. I heard this when I was very young and didn't quite understand the details.

For k-12,or the equivalent , what are the 201 options that parents have in the country your parents are from?

Ok, I can speak to Nigeria and what the options are for schooling. Gonna be a bit of a long post. I want to be as comprehensive as possible.

Let's start with the basics. You have public funded schools and private schools. Education is broken down into Kindergarten, Primary School and Secondary School (Junior and Senior). Primary school is the equivalent of 1st grade to 6th grade. Junior Secondary School (JS1 - JS3), 7-9 and Senior Secondary School (SS1 - SS3) 10-12.

Both public and private schools are set up in the same structure. Public schools are funded by the government so often times the quality is lacking. Poor facilities, unpaid teachers, etc. Public schools are funded by the Federal government through the Ministry of Education which in need of dire reform.

Private schools are now the way to go for people with means. The quality of Private school education varies by school and often times by price. When I completed high school in Nigeria (Senior Secondary School) my school fees (tuition, lodging, books, etc) was about $8,000 a year. Some schools where closer to $12-$15k a year (British International School, American International School etc).

However, where the education system really shows it's cracks is at the university level. There are numerous public universities in Nigeria but private schools are the way to go. Public universities are poorly funded, constantly on strike (teachers go on strike due to wages not being paid etc), and have been eroded of standards.

Real life example: My cousin started freshman year of college at the same time I did. I went to visit him my sophomore year in college and he hadn't finished his freshman year due to strikes. Degrees that should take 4 years end up taking 6-7 years. So now, the popular option is to study overseas (if you have the means).

The popular options are:

UK: London specifically. This is usually where you'll see more of the Nigerian elite go study. UK has always been the top destination for overseas studies. Largely owing to the colonial legacy. Law, Medicine, Engineering, Economics etc. The Nigerians I tend to see go to the UK are usually the ones that are well connected in Nigeria so they have the prospect of coming back and finding work.

Canada: Toronto especially. Canada really burst on the scene in recent years for Nigerians to study. The big pull for Canada is the prospect of working visas and permanent residency after schooling. What you have are Nigerians that come to study at 18 and by 26-28 they are full Canadian citizens with the same access to the Western world that Brits, Americans, Germans and French have. It's becoming a more and more attractive option because of the prospect of getting a work visa post graduation and not having to return to Nigeria.

US: The Nigerians that study in the US tend to have stronger ties to the US (e.g. lived here, born here, have family here) The US' system of education is different from Nigeria's which is modeled after the British. Nigerians tend to be more spread out when they come to study in the US. You'll see them in the big hubs though, NYC, ATL, DC, Houston, Chicago, Dallas etc. Funny thing is the US used to be the 2nd most popular option after the UK but Canada has kind of taken that spot. The US is probably the No. 1 in terms of post-grad education though, especially MBAs.

I would say those are the big three. Outside of that, you have Scotland (particularly for petrochemical engineering), South Africa, Ghana, Turkey, Australia, Wales, India, Malaysia and other European nations (Germany, Switzerland, France) etc.

Private universities in Nigeria are better than public universities but are still sorely lacking in terms of funding, scholarship and rigor.

In summary:

Public schooling is underfunded, disjointed and very basic. Private institutions have quality and repute for the K-12 years. Tertiary education is sub-par both at the public and private level when compared to the international standard. Even your basic community college has better facilities than 90% of the universities in Nigeria. Your flagship state school would be like a Harvard in Nigeria.

 

[Starman]

Public schooling is underfunded, disjointed and very basic. Private institutions have quality and repute for the K-12 years. Tertiary education is sub-par both at the public and private level when compared to the international standard. Even your basic community college has better facilities than 90% of the universities in Nigeria. Your flagship state school would be like a Harvard in Nigeria.

This is unfortunate. I wonder if it's even possible for the best minds and most affluent Nigerians to go a broad to study, work, and live yet still improve Nigeria.

What do you think of the government importing professors (albeit at inflated salaries) until Nigeria built it's own base of quality instructors? Could this start to counter the brain drain? Or is it (as I suspect now that I think about it), that the desire for first world quality of life is so overwhelming that if you have the chance to take it, you take it- home country be damned?

If so, then nothing will change as until Nigeria, or any other developing nation has wealth enough for it's elite to feel comfortable educating their children there.

 

[phcitywarrior]

This is unfortunate. I wonder if it's even possible for the best minds and most affluent Nigerians to go a broad to study, work, and live yet still improve Nigeria.

What do you think of the government importing professors (albeit at inflated salaries) until Nigeria built it's own base of quality instructors? Could this start to counter the brain drain? Or is it (as I suspect now that I think about it), that the desire for first world quality of life is so overwhelming that if you have the chance to take it, you take it- home country be damned?

If so, then nothing will change as until Nigeria, or any other developing nation has wealth enough for it's elite to feel comfortable educating their children there.

Importing professors (Foreign professors), imho, is not necessarily the fix to the issues of education in Nigeria. One thing I’ve said time and time again about Nigeria that makes it peculiar to some other African nations is that we have human capital, partially due to sheer size, but also due to access.

Example: Faculty | Howard University - Electrical Engineering and Computer Science

That’s a link to the faculty members for Howard University’s Department of Engineering. Of the 25 listed Faculty (Current and Adjunct/Visiting Faculty) 4 of them are Nigerian (Momoh, Wade, Garuba and Ogworonjo), almost a 5th!

You can find a similar story across other universities in the US and UK. If you look at the CV of some of those professors I mentioned, you’ll see they also studied at top schools in the US or UK.

So, importing professors isn’t really the fix. The bigger fix is solving the systematic issues that disincentive the brains of Nigeria from leaving. Part of that, yes, is to make a Nigeria a habitable/semi-habitable place. It’s not to say the West isn’t without its flaws, but one thing I always admire about the US, UK, Canada etc is that it just works. A lot of people can’t really grasp this concept of things just working until they’ve spend time overseas in some developing countries. But I digress.

I think to entice Nigerian professors to return to back to the country you have to tackle, in my opinion, two key areas; Standards and Progression.

First and foremost, you need standards of practice within publicly funded institutions. This is everything from pay to ethics to facilities. It’s hard to make a case for why a professor at Howard, interacting with some of the brightest minds in DC should jump ship to Nigeria when his colleagues are sleeping with students to get passing grades. Simply saying “Be a patriot, this is your home country” isn’t enough.

After standards, there has to be a case made for career progression. This is mostly tied to R&D funding. Again, when a school like the University of Maryland allocates say $50 million for Engineering research, it’s hard to turn that down as a professor looking to make strides in your career. I’m not saying Nigerian universities can compete dollar for dollar with the US - FYI: they can’t, the US is easily the no. 1 destination for higher education, I mean Harvard Uni has a $31 billion endowment more than some nations entire GDP – but I do think Nigerian universities can offer something that a Harvard can’t: Equity in Change.

The draw in going back to Nigeria, for many Nigerians that look to return for the diaspora, is the belief that they can mold and shape the nation to what it can be and should be based on the resources and human capital. That sense of ownership is something you really can’t put a dollar value on. If and when the Ministry of Education can communicate that message, in addition to what I previously mentioned, then I think you’ll see a reverse brain drain.

 

[Starman]

So, importing professors isn’t really the fix. The bigger fix is solving the systematic issues that disincentive the brains of Nigeria from leaving. Part of that, yes, is to make a Nigeria a habitable/semi-habitable place. It’s not to say the West isn’t without its flaws, but one thing I always admire about the US, UK, Canada etc is that it just works. A lot of people can’t really grasp this concept of things just working until they’ve spend time overseas in some developing countries. But I digress.

There is no rush here. Please expound on this concept should you feel the need to. I've spent time in Ghana on vacation. While that time wasn't used for formal education or work, I absolutely have some idea of what you mean when you talk about thing "just working". From people showing up at a particular time, to electricity being available at any given time. But there's no way I'm as familiar with this sort of thing as a person who's lived there. So if you have more to add on the topic, please do.

I think to entice Nigerian professors to return to back to the country you have to tackle, in my opinion, two key areas; Standards and Progression.

First and foremost, you need standards of practice within publicly funded institutions. This is everything from pay to ethics to facilities. It’s hard to make a case for why a professor at Howard, interacting with some of the brightest minds in DC should jump ship to Nigeria when his colleagues are sleeping with students to get passing grades. Simply saying “Be a patriot, this is your home country” isn’t enough.

After standards, there has to be a case made for career progression. This is mostly tied to R&D funding. Again, when a school like the University of Maryland allocates say $50 million for Engineering research, it’s hard to turn that down as a professor looking to make strides in your career. I’m not saying Nigerian universities can compete dollar for dollar with the US - FYI: they can’t, the US is easily the no. 1 destination for higher education, I mean Harvard Uni has a $31 billion endowment more than some nations entire GDP – but I do think Nigerian universities can offer something that a Harvard can’t: Equity in Change.

The draw in going back to Nigeria, for many Nigerians that look to return for the diaspora, is the belief that they can mold and shape the nation to what it can be and should be based on the resources and human capital. That sense of ownership is something you really can’t put a dollar value on. If and when the Ministry of Education can communicate that message, in addition to what I previously mentioned, then I think you’ll see a reverse brain drain.

I think those are great ideas, and you've clearly given a lot of thought to this issue. Here's hoping Nigeria get's it together. Even as a Black American, I can tell you black people everywhere would benefit from the mere existence of a first world black nation.

 

[get these nets]

The draw in going back to Nigeria, for many Nigerians that look to return for the diaspora, is the belief that they can mold and shape the nation to what it can be and should be based on the resources and human capital. That sense of ownership is something you really can’t put a dollar value on. If and when the Ministry of Education can communicate that message, in addition to what I previously mentioned, then I think you’ll see a reverse brain drain.

Unfortunately, for Nigeria and many of the Black countries that routinely experience brain drain...the facts and history prove otherwise.

They've seen 2+ generations of their educated people attempt and fail to do just that.

 

[phcitywarrior]

There is no rush here. Please expound on this concept should you feel the need to. I've spent time in Ghana on vacation. While that time wasn't used for formal education or work, I absolutely have some idea of what you mean when you talk about thing "just working". From people showing up at a particular time, to electricity being available at any given time. But there's no way I'm as familiar with this sort of thing as a person who's lived there. So if you have more to add on the topic, please do.

You alluded to this and a big part of things "just working" is material. Flicking on the light switch and having the light come one. Turning on the faucet and having water come out. Having an expected and constant supply chain of basic foods/supplies at an expected price.

Another part of things "just working" is having reliable services delivered to you without much oversight. Let me give you a few examples from my time in Nigeria at various periods (1995-2002, 2009-2012, 2013-Present). Mind you, I'd consider my family very well to do but even still, there are some macro forces that affect everyone.

1. Erratic power supply so the need to have a private generator (classic example)
2. Poor supply chain networks so there are often construction delays
3. Getting a sim card registered (essentially validated for use) can take up to a day due to network delays/problems
4. Labour often has to be supervised. What do I mean by that? Example, you take a car to the mechanic and leave it there. You come back to pick it up and you notice he's taken out a key bolt that will require you to go back to him, or he's done a sub-standard job that will require additional work.

These are some little examples and I can expound on later when I think of some. A big part of things not working is corruption. When there are no standards then things are like the wild wild west. Every man is out for himself so you have to keep a watchful eye for everything.

 

[phcitywarrior]

Unfortunately, for Nigeria and many of the Black countries that routinely experience brain drain...the facts and history prove otherwise.

They've seen 2+ generations of their educated people attempt and fail to do just that.

There's a reason for this, a lot of it is due to the system and a lot of it is lack of understanding. You can't simply come to Nigeria and try to have a carbon copy of the US. There are different incentives "on ground" that people often fail to understand or play to.

With Nigeria, as well, a lot of the rulers of back then are still the rulers of today, so there's no change in vision or thinking.

 

[get these nets]

There's a reason for this, a lot of it is due to the system and a lot of it is lack of understanding. You can't simply come to Nigeria and try to have a carbon copy of the US. There are different incentives "on ground" that people often fail to understand or play to.

With Nigeria, as well, a lot of the rulers of back then are still the rulers of today, so there's no change in vision or thinking.

What I was getting at is that the conditions and political system/climate haven't changed and there is no realistic reason to think that they will. This applies to most places.

For example...the "just working" line you used......most immigrants from developing countries know EXACTLY what that means. 24/7 electricity....24/7 running water and sewage lines...roads fixed.....police arriving when you call 911.

A lot of people in the West had visions of returning home to retire and have since reconsidered ...primarily having grown accustomed to things working. I don't see professionals, in their prime earning years, going back home to try to rebuild the social or physical infrastructure of their home country....no matter what the incentive is.

 

[Frangala]

The emphasis on degrees in African culture is a bit ridiculous in my opinion and I think is the downfall of the continent. I truly believe it is a problem of character and priority. I would argue with the demographic dividend, Africa needs more of an education tailored toward industries and competitive advantages of natural resources. Each province and state which have a specific sought after natural resource should create an education system targeted toward that. For a continent that has most the available arable land in the world and yet can't feed itself I don't understand why we see Africans with so many law degrees nd not agronomists to increase agricultural yields and agro process this stuff so you don't import food.

If you have a province in the country rich with copper or other natural resources why not train geologists so they can find the next mineral site instead of multi national Glencore or BHP or other Western companies

 

[Frangala]

What I was getting at is that the conditions and political system/climate haven't changed and there is no realistic reason to think that they will. This applies to most places.

For example...the "just working" line you used......most immigrants from developing countries know EXACTLY what that means. 24/7 electricity....24/7 running water and sewage lines...roads fixed.....police arriving when you call 911.

A lot of people in the West had visions of returning home to retire and have since reconsidered ...primarily having grown accustomed to things working. I don't see professionals, in their prime earning years, going back home to try to rebuild the social or physical infrastructure of their home country....no matter what the incentive is.

It's hard as hell to be a trailblazer if you have been accustomed to a certain lifestyle in the Western world and try to go back to Africa. It's possible i know people who have done it but its hard.

 

[phcitywarrior]

What I was getting at is that the conditions and political system/climate haven't changed and there is no realistic reason to think that they will. This applies to most places.

For example...the "just working" line you used......most immigrants from developing countries know EXACTLY what that means. 24/7 electricity....24/7 running water and sewage lines...roads fixed.....police arriving when you call 911.

A lot of people in the West had visions of returning home to retire and have since reconsidered ...primarily having grown accustomed to things working. I don't see professionals, in their prime earning years, going back home to try to rebuild the social or physical infrastructure of their home country....no matter what the incentive is.

Yes and no. Within the right industry, you're actually better off from a quality of life perspective if you head back than if you stay here. Met a dude in Kenya of Ghanian origin. Darthmouth undergrad, Harvard MBA. Works in private equity, beaucoup money. He told me specifically, with Ghana he has the chance to build an industry, not the same in the US. In the US he's plugging into a system that already works. In Ghana the growth was there. Of course it helps that his firm is multinational and can pay him the same thing in Nairobi/Jo'Burg/Accra etc as they would in NYC.

Of course, it's hard, but at certain income levels you're actually better off back home.