what could realistically be done in the next four years to squash this trend? do you think the conservatives in Germany will take this threat seriously or relax and get comfortable just cause they won this time around?
More on: Europe David Wessel writes in today's Wall Street Journal: "Germany, alas, is showing few signs of a Japanese style rebound. It is, essentially, relying on lower wages to …
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germany needs a sea-change in culture but unfortunately history suggests that that is not going to happen without a collapse first.
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i see people talking about immigration in germany. the immigration story in germany is very different to that in the USA.
germany did not integrate its foreigners and until recently made no attempt to attract highly skilled immigrants.
in the early 2000's they tried skilled visa for IT but that failed.
now they have a blue card/skilled visa which is seeing more success.
the struggle is the liberal and business germans who want to import skills vs. those that don't want mass immigration at all.
then you have groups that germany did not integrate over the last 50 years, whose situations are hard to change in the near term.
Banning mediums of information will do nothing, the problem is cultural. It's like back in the 80s and 90s when idiots were like "all the racist will die out and we will be living in harmony" when shyt is even more turnt up. Black people (IDK if you are black, but speaking for my self) have to much faith in humans lol.
I'm not sure if I agree with that. I mean, the South after the civil war didn't change AT ALL. In fact, they went out of their way in order to exploit loopholes so that they could effectively continue the practice of chattel slavery (black codes which lead to debt peonage at best, and hard prison labor at worst, and both of those could lead to life sentences.)
In Germany's case, the AfD is almost totally represented in East Germany. Maybe @null can explain why that is (maybe the area is still run down from the the Soviet era?)
I'm not sure if I agree with that. I mean, the South after the civil war didn't change AT ALL. In fact, they went out of their way in order to exploit loopholes so that they could effectively continue the practice of chattel slavery (black codes which lead to debt peonage at best, and hard prison labor at worst, and both of those could lead to life sentences.)
In Germany's case, the AfD is almost totally represented in East Germany. Maybe @null can explain why that is (maybe the area is still run down from the the Soviet era?)
White Surprmeacist debating/arguing on how they will implement white supremacy is not an example of culture battles.
A better example is the Crusades or Tribes (which are really nations) going to war and the losing nation being exterminated/absorbed into the victory (usually done with the killing and or enslaving of the men from the losing side, and the women being taking in)
In Germany's case, the AfD is almost totally represented in East Germany. Maybe @null can explain why that is (maybe the area is still run down from the the Soviet era?)
When germany was divided after WWII the Allies (led by the USA) reconstructed and partially-denazified german society BUT did not go far enough. YUP the US is to blame for the german cultural nazi mindset.
"In late 1945 and early 1946, the emergence of the Cold War and the economic importance of Germany caused the United States in particular to lose interest in the program, somewhat mirroring the Reverse Course in American-occupied Japan. The British handed over denazification panels to the Germans in January 1946, while the Americans did likewise in March 1946. The French ran the mildest denazification effort. Denazification was carried out in an increasingly lenient and lukewarm way until being officially abolished in 1951. Additionally, the program was hugely unpopular in West Germany, where many Nazis maintained positions of power. Denazification was opposed by the new West German government of Konrad Adenauer,[3] who declared that ending the process was necessary for West German rearmament"
"As time went on, another consideration that moderated the denazification effort in the West was the concern to keep enough good will of the German population to prevent the growth of communism"
They added liberalism and democracy to school and social curricula but left in some elements of german difficulty to create a bulwark in germany against ideas that could possible come in from the east. The reforms + marshall plan + reintegration of germany into the western economy led to the wirthschaft wunder of amazing growth, world class companies, with unified germany eventually becoming the biggest high value good exporter in the world. Eastern germany suffered under soviet rule.
2. Key Features of Cold War Liberalism in Germany
Economic Liberalism: In West Germany, liberalism was closely tied to the development of a social market economy (soziale Marktwirtschaft), a model that combined free-market capitalism with social welfare programs. This economic system was championed by Ludwig Erhard, the first economic minister and later Chancellor, and was instrumental in Germany's post-war economic recovery. The goal was to combine the efficiency of market competition with protections for workers and the social safety net.
Political Liberalism: Politically, Cold War liberalism in West Germany emphasized democracy, human rights, individual freedoms, and the rule of law. The 1949 Basic Law (Grundgesetz) for the Federal Republic of Germany established a democratic constitutional order, and the liberal democratic parties, such as the Free Democratic Party (FDP), played a crucial role in shaping the political landscape.
Anti-Communism: Given the division between East and West, anti-communism was a core tenet of Cold War liberalism in West Germany. The threat of communism, as represented by the Soviet Union and the GDR, influenced the foreign and domestic policies of West Germany, with a strong alignment with NATO and Western Europe, including the Marshall Plan and the integration of Germany into the European Economic Community (EEC).
Social Liberalism: There was also a significant social liberal element in post-war West Germany. While the emphasis on free-market economics was central, social liberalism sought to ensure that economic growth translated into improvements in social welfare and equality. Policies aimed at reducing inequality and improving workers' rights were important to many liberals in the FRG.
4. Cold War Tensions and Ideological Conflict
The Cold War created a sharp ideological divide between East and West, with liberalism in West Germany symbolizing a rejection of communism and totalitarianism. The divide was not just political and economic but also cultural. West Germany saw itself as a beacon of freedom, democracy, and capitalist prosperity, while East Germany was a socialist state under Soviet control.
In East Germany (GDR), the Communist Party of the Soviet Union imposed a Marxist-Leninist system that was completely opposed to liberalism as understood in the West. This ideological contrast was a key element in the Cold War rivalry, which also played out in Germany's political discourse.
When germany reunified west germany invested in the east to update infrastructure and accepted east germany currency into the west at a value of 1-1 (up to limits) to try to minimise economic imbalances between the two. They did not want east germans to become 2nd class citizens within their own (new) united country. So east germany has nice motorways, nice DB trains, reasonable airports and some pretty cities (by all accounts). Infrastructure far beyond what it would have been if left to their own devices.
"Upon adoption of the Deutsche Mark in East Germany on 1 July 1990, the East German Mark was converted at par for wages, prices and basic savings (up to a limit of M 4,000 per person, except a smaller number for children and a larger number for pensioners). Larger amounts of savings, company debts and housing loans were converted at a 2:1 rate whilst so-called "speculative money", acquired shortly before unification, was converted at a rate of 3:1. These inflated exchange rates were intended by the government of the Federal Republic of Germany as a massive subsidy for eastern Germany, and remain controversial among economists, with some arguing that the exchange of currency was the most practical way of quickly unifying the German economy, and others arguing that the exchange increased the disruption caused by German unification by, among other things, making eastern German industries uncompetitive."
"Until the 1970s, East Germany (officially the German Democratic Republic or GDR) had not made any large-scale investment into its transport infrastructure. Many of its motorways, roads, and railways had not been upgraded since the 1940s (with the exception of some that were repaired in the 1950s as needed) and were largely neglected: trunk roads, East Germany's long-distance counterparts to West Germany's Bundesstraßen, were still mostly unpaved in rural areas in 1990 and had numerous potholes."
"The motorways were, essentially, the same as they were before World War II"
East germany could not compete after unification. Better jobs, companies and cities drew the best youth westward. Cultural differences as well meant that west germany maintained a productivity advantage over the east. Outside of dresden and leipzig to some extent east germany lacks quality opportunities. Berlin is hippy-ish, left wing but relatively poor. especially for a capital city.
The gap between east and west has persisted and even today the GDP per capita difference between the regions is stark.
See here the GDP per capita is double in Bavaria of what it is in (ex) east Germany.
The economy leads to dissatisfaction but it is more than that.
The west force fed west germany a diet of democracy + liberalism. That did not happen in the east.
East germans are more used to harsher measures than in the west so are more willing to turn to illiberal solutions.
East germans (I have read but might not be true) are more likely to listen to conspiracies. Growing under the heel and spies of the GDR that kind of makes sense.
Likewise attitudes to tolerance and other western "ideals" are worse in the east.
You've had skinheads roaming freely in the east, terrorising foreigners for decades, but the antipathy towards foreigners is so widespread that nothing has been done about it.
Its funny how often these regimes have issues and blame them on immigrants. Instead of recognizing this, people like the poster perpetuates it. Every single fukking time authoritarians come up, they scapegoat immigrant/migrants.
Its funny how often these regimes have issues and blame them on immigrants. Instead of recognizing this, people like the poster perpetuates it. Every single fukking time authoritarians come up, they scapegoat immigrant/migrants.
i don't want to say what i'm going to say because people might not understand but Germany has caused itself a lot of problems through immigration.
both sides, immigrants and germans, admit that the immigration in germany since the 70's failed.
germans kept expecting the immigrants aka "guest workers" to leave and the guest workers largely did not settle nor integrate into german society.
"As a result, guestworkers are generally considered temporary migrants because their residency in the country of immigration is not yet determined to be permanent"
germans are probably more to blame wrt that but if you spend time in germany you realise that the immigrant populations that they invited were suited to the then, simple work, that they wanted them to do. and in a non-aspirational society like germany successive generations are still heavily influenced by that.
anatolian turks are not the same as instanbul turks for example.
germany as the host nation should have done better. germany after all invited them.
BUT the status quo is a hostile society where hatred bubbles beneath the surface in both directions.
due to the way they have been treated swatches of youths, especially males, want nothing to do with mainstream german society. many of them can't speak german properly despite being raised in the country.
and then your have passing immigrants (russians and other EE's) who have been there for a while, suffered hard lives, and hate non-yt immigrants even more than germans do.
so it is complex.
and what most there can agree on is that it is not working. and has not worked.
this is unlike countries like the UK, france, US, canada etc.
As mainstream German parties break from a longstanding convention to keep the far-right away from power, the political landscape in Europe’s largest economy seems on the verge of a dangerous transformation. For years, Germany’s mainstream parties have promised never to touch the AfD (Alternative
Yes, there's concern but including the Nazis in the title is nothing but fear mongering and misinformation
The German Conservatives are not Nazis
You should at least point that out to smooth brain Coli members
Germany’s interior minister has cancelled a report into racist practices by the country’s police forces, arguing that there was “no need” for the study as such discrimination was already illegal.The review had been announced in early June after the death of George Floyd, a black man killed by a whit
www.thetimes.com
german police and army have nazi groups within them. who do you think these people have been voting for?
Hundreds of German police officers are under investigation over links with right-wing extremist or conspiracist ideology, a media report says.
www.dw.com
where do you think the nazis left in germany went to after WWII. they weren't all shot and reentered positions of power.
east germany has been skinhead land way before the AFD turned up.
in 21 regions in hessen (west germany) for example AFD in #1. 17% overall. 3rd largest.
"The West German political system, as it emerged from the occupation, was increasingly opposed to the Allied denazification policy.[100] As denazification was deemed ineffective and counterproductive by the Americans, they did not oppose the plans of the West German chancellor, Konrad Adenauer, to end the denazification efforts. Adenauer's intention was to switch government policy to reparations and compensation for the victims of Nazi rule (Wiedergutmachung), stating that the main culprits had been prosecuted.[101] In 1951 several laws were passed, ending the denazification. Officials were allowed to retake jobs in the civil service, and hiring quotas were established for these previously-excluded individuals,[102] with the exception of people assigned to Group I (Major Offenders) and II (Offenders) during the denazification review process. These individuals were referred to as "131-ers", after Article 131 of Federal Republic’s Basic Law.[103][104]
Several amnesty laws were also passed which affected an estimated 792,176 people. Those pardoned included people with six-month sentences, 35,000 people with sentences of up to one year and include more than 3,000 functionaries of the SA, the SS, and the Nazi Party who participated in dragging victims to jails and camps; 20,000 other Nazis sentenced for "deeds against life" (presumably murder); 30,000 sentenced for causing bodily injury, and 5,200 who committed "crimes and misdemeanors in office".[105] As a result, many people with a former Nazi past ended up again in the political apparatus of West Germany. In 1957, 77% of the German Ministry of Justice's senior officials were former Nazi Party members.[106] Included in this ministry was Franz Massfeller, a former Nazi official who had participated in the meetings which followed the Wannsee Conference, in which the extermination of Jews was planned. [107]"
"German President Walter Scheel and Chancellor Kurt Georg Kiesinger were both former members of the Nazi Party. In 1950, a major controversy broke out when it emerged that Konrad Adenauer's State Secretary Hans Globke had played a major role in drafting antisemitic Nuremberg Race Laws in Nazi Germany.[108] In the 1980s former UN Secretary General and President of Austria Kurt Waldheim was confronted with allegations he had lied about his wartime record in the Balkans."
,but they're not trying to go back to their past
They had to work extra hard to become a superpower after the wars
No way in hell they're letting East Germany fukk that up.. again
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