DC Schools: $29,349 Per Pupil, 83% Not Proficient in Reading

[theworldismine13]

no 17,000 does not sound like a ton to me and it is well know that bigger school districts are pretty much forced to spend more money on various things (though like nearly all public expenditures they are often guilty of wasting money on very questionable things)

Relative to other districts it is a lot and if you think bigger districts spend more why where you shocked at 29,000, why didn't you simply say that it's because they are big

Instead you posted an article which said essentially the same thing as in the op except the numbers were slightly different, the only difference was that NYC was slightly ahead of DC, but nothing changes the fact that DC has some of the highest per pupil spending in the country, I think it went over your head that it's the difference in spending that is significant not the actual amount, it doesn't matter whether the number is 17k or 29k

 

[JBoy]

Relative to other districts it is a lot and if you think bigger districts spend more why where you shocked at 29,000, why didn't you simply say that it's because they are big

Instead you posted an article which said essentially the same thing as in the op except the numbers were slightly different, the only difference was that NYC was slightly ahead of DC, but nothing changes the fact that there DC has some of the highest per pupil spending in the country, I think it went over your head that it's the difference in spending that is significant not the actual amount, it doesn't matter whether the number is 17k or 29k

I don't feel like going into the schematics of the numbers with you, higher spending totals are negated by higher cost of living totals and like I said before the other various factors that are requited in running a district with as many schools as DC has.
basically I'm sceptical of the spending per student being any decent gauge of the money going into useful programs in general

 

[theworldismine13]

I don't feel like going into the schematics of the numbers with you, higher spending totals are negated by higher cost of living totals and like I said before the other various factors that are requited in running a district with as many schools as DC has.
basically I'm sceptical of the spending per student being any decent gauge of the money going into useful programs in general

you cant say running a bigger district and higher cost of living explains the higher cost, then say you dont believe the 29k figure
and saying cost of living is not evidence that the 29k figure was made up which is what you were trying to say originally

there are different ways of calculating per pupil cost, that is the most likely explanation for the 29k vs 18k figure, but the overall point that DC has the highest per pupil spending in the country hasnt been contradicted because its a true statement

its pathetic that instead of arguing about what strategies we need to improve dc schools you want to get into an argument about how to calculate per pupil costs

 

[JBoy]

you cant say running a bigger district and higher cost of living explains the higher cost, then say you dont believe the 29k figure
and saying cost of living is not evidence that the 29k figure was made up which is what you were trying to say originally

there are different ways of calculating per pupil cost, that is the most likely explanation for the 29k vs 18k figure, but the overall point that DC has the highest per pupil spending in the country hasnt been contradicted because its a true statement

its pathetic that instead of arguing about what strategies we need to improve dc schools you want to get into an argument about how to calculate per pupil costs

so you admit cost of spending per pupil is a wildly inconscient measure of gauging how much money reaches the common student and has a boatload of various factors that influence it eh (which was my the whole damn point I was making in the first place we all know schools aren't just bad because of the money or lack therefore spent on them)
secondly school districts jobs is to not to butt into parent's homes in the first place unless the children are in perilous conditions DC schools can't force many of these children who have parents who were often poor in academics themselves to read to their kids or somehow get them better living conditions solely on their own, you can spend $150,000 per pupil and it won't mean a damn thing if it doesn't improve their lives outside of the school they attend.

 

[theworldismine13]

so you admit cost of spending per pupil is a wildly inconscient measure of gauging how much money reaches the common student and has a boatload of various factors that influence it eh (which was my the whole damn point I was making in the first place we all know schools aren't just bad because of the money or lack therefore spent on them)
secondly school districts jobs is to not to butt into parent's homes in the first place unless the children are in perilous conditions DC schools can't force many of these children who have parents who were often poor in academics themselves to read to their kids or somehow get them better living conditions solely on their own, you can spend $150,000 per pupil and it won't mean a damn thing if it doesn't improve their lives outside of the school they attend.

of course i agree that per pupil spending is irrelevant, that is why i dont see any problem with the article, you said that the 29K figure was wrong and then posted an article saying the figure was 18K

if you agree that per puil spending is irrelevant then what is it that you are arguing about, that was the point of the op

second of all my idea is to eliminate the public school system and replace it with vouchers and charter schools, a school districts job is to regulate charter schools and privates schools, that is about it

individual schools should come up with their own solutions on how to deal with home issues

 

[A Real Human Bean]

These stats are highly misleading, but this is a common tactic of those who are pushing for the neoliberalization of education.

NAEP doesn’t measure performance in terms of grade-level achievement. The highest level of performance, “advanced,” is equivalent to an A+, representing the highest possible academic performance. The next level, “proficient,” is equivalent to an A or a very strong B. The next level is “basic,” which probably translates into a C grade.

via The Myth of Charter Schools by Diane Ravitch | The New York Review of Books

So not being "proficient" doesn't mean the students are unable to read,bad readers, or even reading below grade-level. A better statistic to look at would be the number of children who are performing at "below basic" level.

 

[JBoy]

of course i agree that per pupil spending is irrelevant, that is why i dont see any problem with the article, you said that the 29K figure was wrong and then posted an article saying the figure was 18K

if you agree that per puil spending is irrelevant then what is it that you are arguing about, that was the point of the op

second of all my idea is to eliminate the public school system and replace it with vouchers and charter schools, a school districts job is to regulate charter schools and privates schools, that is about it

individual schools should come up with their own solutions on how to deal with home issues

I just like to argue at times, whatever the number these schools often do such a shyt job redistributing the money under many of their current systems that just because they spend a lot doesn't actually mean they are spending a lot if you get my drift.
I'm out

 

[theworldismine13]

These stats are highly misleading, but this is a common tactic of those who are pushing for the neoliberalization of education.


via The Myth of Charter Schools by Diane Ravitch | The New York Review of Books

So not being "proficient" doesn't mean the students are unable to read or even bad readers. A better statistic to look at would be the number of children who are performing at "below basic" level.

the "neoliberalization" of the school system is a good thing, the public school system should be destroyed and rebuilt

and the attacks on charters school by liberals is disgusting especially since most of the attacks are coming from white liberals and union activists attacking schools that are improving black students

 

[theworldismine13]

I just like to argue at times, whatever the number these schools often do such a shyt job redistributing the money under many of their current systems that just because they spend a lot doesn't actually mean they are spending a lot if you get my drift.
I'm out

if the money isnt being distributed properly or misused that is an argument that the public school bureaucracy needs to be addressed, that isnt an argument that the 29K figure is false

so lets talk about the bureaucracy, my solution is that the public school system itself should be eliminated

what are your ideas to stop the money from going to waste and being lost in bureaucracy?

 

[JBoy]

if the money isnt being distributed properly or misused that is an argument that the public school bureaucracy needs to be addressed, that isnt an argument that the 29K figure is false

so lets talk about the bureaucracy, my solution is that the public school system itself should be eliminated

what are your ideas to stop the money from going to waste and being lost in bureaucracy?

well a relatively simple start is for folks to learn more about their local school boards, how they distribute money and to challenge questionable administrator decisions/board decisions they see in their child's school

 

[kermit da hustla]

Why do you feel so strong about public school? Inner city schools just train black kids for the prison system. Why would you send your child to that?

Because you're still going to school and at the end of the day, they are educating you on various tools - grammar, math, science- to be successful and go onto college. I don't see how that is training them for the prison system.

 

[No_bammer_weed]

For some people it's easier to accept this debacle if they can discredit the study.

What study? I asked people to link to the actual study, and all you and your pals did was respond with empty calorie posts with no link. I didnt trust that shyt for brains article in the OP for a second, and surprise, surprise the article was a misleading truth stretcher...But who cares about credibility and facts on the right anyway?

 

[theworldismine13]

well a relatively simple start is for folks to learn more about their local school boards, how they distribute money and to challenge questionable administrator decisions/board decisions they see in their child's school

thats a good idea, i would go further and say that local school boards should be stripped of a lot of their power and the public school system itself should be eliminated and replaced by independent charter schools and vouchers for private schools, the role of the school board would just be to regulate the schools (as opposed to running the schools), the spending power would actually be at the local level by each individual school

so instead of going to the district to find out how much money is being spent and where, the parent can go straight to the principal and teachers to find out, and if they and a group of parents decide they dont like how its being spent they should have the freedom to create their own school and/or move their kid to another school

 

[theworldismine13]

What study? I asked people to link to the actual study, and all you and your pals did was respond with empty calorie posts with no link. I didnt trust that shyt for brains article in the OP for a second, and surprise, surprise the article was a misleading truth stretcher...But who cares about credibility and facts on the right anyway?

the article was accurate overall, the questions of whether its 29k or or 18k doesnt change anything, since the issue is the comparison between other systems and it doesnt matter what test is used to measure academic performance, the dc school system performs badly

unless you post evidence that dc doesnt have one of the highest per pupils spending in the country or that dc deos not have low academic performance than the gist of the article stands

 

[A Real Human Bean]

the article was accurate overall, the questions of whether its 29k or or 18k doesnt change anything, since the issue is the comparison between other systems and it doesnt matter what test is used to measure academic performance, the dc school system performs badly

unless you post evidence that dc doesnt have one of the highest per pupils spending in the country or that dc deos not have low academic performance than the gist of the article stands

Simply stating it has "one of the highest per pupils spending in the country" is meaningless when we already spend far too little on education. The article was misleading in the sense that it tried to make DC schools look worse than they actually are by playing with the use of the word proficient.

Besides that, the DC test scores have been getting steadily better over the years which suggests a positive trend, and the actual scores were only marginally below the large-city averages. Expecting huge educational miracles overnight is unreasonable.

This is not to say that there are no problems with public education today; there are many and they desperately need to be addressed. One of the most important is the issue of poverty. It's simply unacceptable for a nation with such great wealth to have such a high level of poverty, and it's only getting worse. Then you also have the issues of underfunding and the absolutely abysmal attitude towards teachers by almost everyone. If you want to have good public schools you need to make a serious effort to invest in the training and retention of great teachers.

The idea of closing down under-performing public schools and privatizing them is unnecessary. Schools shouldn't be punished for under-performing. We should make a serious effort to ask why? and come up with solutions to improve them. Diane Ravitch makes a great point:

It bears mentioning that nations with high-performing school systems—whether Korea, Singapore, Finland, or Japan—have succeeded not by privatizing their schools or closing those with low scores, but by strengthening the education profession. They also have less poverty than we do. Fewer than 5 percent of children in Finland live in poverty, as compared to 20 percent in the United States. Those who insist that poverty doesn’t matter, that only teachers matter, prefer to ignore such contrasts. If we are serious about improving our schools, we will take steps to improve our teacher force, as Finland and other nations have done. That would mean better screening to select the best candidates, higher salaries, better support and mentoring systems, and better working conditions.

via The Myth of Charter Schools by Diane Ravitch | The New York Review of Books