Democratic Party Rebuild

MAKAVELI25

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I'm not going to defend Joe Biden's handling of Israel and as a veteran of a foreign war, I'm not going to attempt to re-litigate any other foreign wars.

What I will say is, there is a lot more nuance in international conflict than simply taking a stance on what is "right" vs. "wrong". Your elected officials have a responsibility to put this country and its citizens first - unfortunately that responsibility can be leveraged to their own benefit or weighed heavily in their on bias. But that responsibility means putting some other country or people second.

Biden only had options that would slow Israel and Netanyahu not all out stop him - and I'll wholeheartedly admit right along side of you that he didn't fully utilize the majority of those options. But the only way he was going to stop what was taking place was through threats of military conflict with Israel or clandestine operations to sabotage its offensive efforts. We know that was not going to happen.

The bolded is absolutely not true, any US Presidents has many options what it comes to Israel that do not involve clandestine operations or sabotage.

We provide most of their funding, we provide most of their arms, and we are their chief protectors when it comes to diplomatic institutions (like the UN) all around the world.

Joe Biden absolutely had leverage over Israel, he just chose not to exercise it. Israel is a client state, it needs to be repeated over and over.
 

Hood Critic

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The bolded is absolutely not true, any US Presidents has many options what it comes to Israel that do not involve clandestine operations or sabotage.

We provide most of their funding, we provide most of their arms, and we are their chief protectors when it comes to diplomatic institutions (like the UN) all around the world.

Joe Biden absolutely had leverage over Israel, he just chose not to exercise it. Israel is a client state, it needs to be repeated over and over.
I believe Americans confuse all this funding we provide Israel as a one-sided benevolent gesture, which is why they believe we have so much power over what Israel can and can't do.
 

Loose

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I believe Americans confuse all this funding we provide Israel as a one-sided benevolent gesture, which is why they believe we have so much power over what Israel can and can't do.
It is one-sided gesture, israel is our welfare state, us taxpayers additionally help fund Israelis Healthcare and a segment to not work and focus on religion
 

MAKAVELI25

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I believe Americans confuse all this funding we provide Israel as a one-sided benevolent gesture, which is why they believe we have so much power over what Israel can and can't do.
Do you see the irony in how condescending this post is, given your apparent lack of understanding of the U.S.–Israel relationship? No one who truly follows this issue closely would say something as absurd as:

“But the only way he was going to stop what was taking place was through threats of military conflict with Israel or clandestine operations to sabotage its offensive efforts. We know that was not going to happen.”

That statement clearly shows that the person either doesn’t understand what they’re talking about—or is deliberately being dishonest.
 

Hood Critic

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It is one-sided gesture, israel is our welfare state, us taxpayers additionally help fund Israelis Healthcare and a segment to not work and focus on religion
It is not one-sided.

Do you see the irony in how condescending this post is, given your apparent lack of understanding of the U.S.–Israel relationship? No one who truly follows this issue closely would say something as absurd as:

“But the only way he was going to stop what was taking place was through threats of military conflict with Israel or clandestine operations to sabotage its offensive efforts. We know that was not going to happen.”

That statement clearly shows that the person either doesn’t understand what they’re talking about—or is deliberately being dishonest.
The post above proves my point. What's ironic is you dapping the post while trying to tell me what I don't understand.
 

Loose

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Imagine if the united states didn't have to spend 1 trillion on defense per year, imagine the type of services we could provide if we were a vessel state like israel.

We've spent over 300 billion propping up israel :dead:

.this 300 billion could have went to 300 inner cities rebuilding infrastructure
 

Loose

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It is not one-sided.


The post above proves my point. What's ironic is you dapping the post while trying to tell me what I don't understand.
How has united states citizens benefited from israel being over 300 billion of wasted tax dollars?
 

MAKAVELI25

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It is not one-sided.


The post above proves my point. What's ironic is you dapping the post while trying to tell me what I don't understand.

Ok, if you claim that the relationship is two sided, then provide the argument. What benefits does the US get from Israel that we can't get from other Middle Eastern powers, such as Saudi, the UAE, or Qatar? How is it in the American interest to continue being their chief benefactor financially, militarily, and diplomatically?
 

acri1

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What Israel has done in Gaza is 100% genocide. No objective or rational person can deny or justify that fact.

The issue is with those who continue to throw their badge of moral superiority in the face of others. Their nobility has shined so bright, that they're blind to a simple fact - "you can't help someone else until you help yourself".

Right now, you can't help yourself because a group of self-serving and hateful people control all the levers of power. And they are spitting on and setting fire to any of the checks and guardrails that were created to prevent the very abuses of power they're currently relishing in. That was avoidable...

When you take a break and come down from the mountain top and realize everything is on fire - Who's going to speak up on your behalf and save you?

What Israel did is obviously genocide and Dems (along with anyone who isn't a POS) should be against it on general principle.

But people overrate the electoral importance of this, it's not why Trump won. Dems could've taken any position on Gaza and they still would've lost. Even if it never happened, they still would've lost. Trump's cult is unfortunately too fervent and there are too many people who would simply never vote for a black woman in the current anti-woke social climate.
 

wire28

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Powerful words from AOC that will surely make Gen Z males put down the controller and re examine their lives

Let the rebuild continue

 

King Kreole

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The issue is with those who continue to throw their badge of moral superiority in the face of others.
See, I think the issue is actually the fact that the Democrats were aiding and abetting the genocide so they couldn't credibly make the moral case in the past election. Although I grant you that it's probably pretty annoying for someone who doesn't have a deep moral revulsion to the bombing and mutilation of children to be made conscious of their immorality by those who do. Like, I think this video is a pretty instructive Rorschach test if you ask people which of these two groups is the problem:



Their nobility has shined so bright, that they're blind to a simple fact - "you can't help someone else until you help yourself".
It was more like the Democrats were asking their potential voters to kill someone else's kids to save themselves. A truly disgraceful situation to put voters in, and it was not necessary. I don't begrudge anyone who refused to kill a child to save themselves.

When you take a break and come down from the mountain top and realize everything is on fire - Who's going to speak up on your behalf and save you?
Evidently not the Democratic Party.
 

King Kreole

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But people overrate the electoral importance of this, it's not why Trump won. Dems could've taken any position on Gaza and they still would've lost.
The reason that the Dems lost is the same reason they took the wrong position on the genocide. Evacuated moral core, no actual principles, can't stand for anything meaningful. The world in which they took the right position on Gaza is a world in which they have overcome their completely feckless donor-driver political ideology is a world in which they could have won the election. They didn't lose because they took the wrong position on Gaza, they took the wrong position on Gaza because they are losers.

Even if it never happened, they still would've lost.

I disagree. Kamala was actually in a pretty good position to win in August of 2024 because she flipped the script and became the change candidate, signalling a different path from the incumbent administration on multiple fronts, including Gaza. Then she changed course and committed to being business as usual, and starting drowning, and died. She could have won that election if she didn't make critical self-inflicted mistakes.

Trump's cult is unfortunately too fervent and there are too many people who would simply never vote for a black woman in the current anti-woke social climate.

The Republicans are going to nominate some batshyt MAGA fascist like Winsome Earle-Sears and she's going to crush the centrist triangulated Democratic nominee like Josh Shapiro.
 

Loose

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The reason that the Dems lost is the same reason they took the wrong position on the genocide. Evacuated moral core, no actual principles, can't stand for anything meaningful. The world in which they took the right position on Gaza is a world in which they have overcome their completely feckless donor-driver political ideology is a world in which they could have won the election. They didn't lose because they took the wrong position on Gaza, they took the wrong position on Gaza because they are losers.


I disagree. Kamala was actually in a pretty good position to win in August of 2024 because she flipped the script and became the change candidate. She could have won that election if she didn't make critical mistakes.

The Republicans are going to nominate some batshyt MAGA fascist like Winsome Earle-Sears and she's going to crush the centrist triangulated Democratic nominee like Josh Shapiro.
The bolded is a bar :damn: its funny and sad ar the same time :francis:
 
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