Democratic Party Rebuild

Outlaw

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Me branding myself anything has nothing to do with the topic of dems attacking their left flank, dog are you on the spectrum? Seriously lol.

I could call myself a communist it wouldn't mean anything
Democrats brand would immediately take a hit if they embraced the socialist branding, that’s the point. America in general doesn’t fukk with socialism, and if you have to explain away why it’s okay to embrace it then you’ve already lost.

Another non issue to whine about
 

King Kreole

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It’s bad strategy to attack from your left flank when you’re getting destroyed from the right flank.
Not if the center is leading a failing effort. If you have a drunk and reckless commander consistently sending your platoon on suicide missions, fragging him so you can get an actually useful commander is an acceptable strategy.

Modern conservatism needs to be destroyed as an ideal before any of your socialist/progressive projects can take hold institutionally.
Modern conservatism is already being cannibalized by far-right fascism. The way you fill that void isn't by trying to pick up its banner like the centrists keep doing, it's by offering a competing vision. Again, if centrists were racking up wins and succeeding in destroying conservatism isn't of acquiescing to it, your argument would have more salience.

This is what you don’t understand. You’re debating on how our electoral politics should be and I’m arguing for clarity on how it is. None of your social programs will be legislated until it becomes untenable to be a Republican as it is currently constructed.

How do you think we’ll be able to pass universal healthcare if 40-60% of the legislative body/ Supreme Court thinks it’s authoritarian communism?
You're operating is as much, if not more, of a fantasy as I am. Y'all are the ones who were ready to give up on the project of American Democracy and the America public because your ideal Harris campaign got mollywhopped. You're not winning. The mood of the country in this political era is hungry for "real" people offering big change. Whether you like it or not, means tested Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton are not "real" people, and the tepid small-to-medium sized business tax credits and opportunity zone investments are not big change.

You're correct that the legislative body and Supreme Court are not beholden to the will of the people. You let that set the horizon of your wishes and strategy. I do not.

I guess we’re both delusional because you can’t hold power in a democracy when 50% of the country are Republicans or vote Republican.
50% of the country is not Republican or vote Republican. Only about 35% of the adult population voted Republican.

The strategy should be how do you make that ideology toxic so that the Overton window moves to the left, instead of backstabbing the only party that standing in between you and Christian nationalist fascist state
You don't make that ideology toxic by acquiescing to it like moderate Dems consistently do. You make it toxic by providing a viable alternative. Moderate Dems are the reason the Overton Window has moved to the right. So it's good to frag them and put a real fighter in charge.

Right-wing fascists: "Immigrants are vermin who should be violently deported because they're poisoning the blood of our country!"
Moderate Democrats: "We agree that they are criminals who should be deported, but there's no need to do it in such a mean way!"
Leftists: "Actually, the anger and problems you're facing as our standard of living collapses are real, but the immigrants are not the cause, it's the billionaires and oligarchs, so redirect your hatred to them."
 

King Kreole

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Democrats brand would immediately take a hit if they embraced the socialist branding, that’s the point. America in general doesn’t fukk with socialism, and if you have to explain away why it’s okay to embrace it then you’ve already lost.
I don't think this is true at all. America fukks with K-12 public schooling and social security and medicare/medicaid and the national park service as well as local public parks and free police and fire departments services and free roads, etc.

One of the major reasons Mamdani caught lightning is because he wasn't scared of that label. That's the message. There's no explaining away, it's just understanding that right-wing coded diss only works if you're scared of it too. People respect confidence. So sure, if your a Democrat whose knees are shaking when someone says socialism instead of donning the cap of FDR and pointing to the history of the party and all the foundational, beloved socialist institutions in our society and the very idea of helping the many instead of the few, you have no business being in charge of the ostensibly left political party.
 

John Reena

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Pretty much all social programs are from the " far left" what are you even arguing idiot lol :dead:

Congrats we got a b*stardize version of social safety nets in Obama care that is crumbling from moderate thinking. We sure are about winning, so much winning

Blah blah blah

Another no answer/insult


:dead:
 

Outlaw

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You're operating is as much, if not more, of a fantasy as I am. Y'all are the ones who were ready to give up on the project of American Democracy and the America public because your ideal Harris campaign got mollywhopped. You're not winning. The mood of the country in this political era is hungry for "real" people offering big change. Whether you like it or not, means tested Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton are not "real" people, and the tepid small-to-medium sized business tax credits and opportunity zone investments are not big change.

Meh I think Clinton and Kamala losing has more to do with misogyny and racism than their policy. When people were able to decide between Trump and Kamala’s policies without knowing which candidate was offering the policies, Kamala’s policies polled more favorably.


You're correct that the legislative body and Supreme Court are not beholden to the will of the people. You let that set the horizon of your wishes and strategy. I do not.


50% of the country is not Republican or vote Republican. Only about 35% of the adult population voted Republican.

Good point but the voting electorate is around 40-50% Republican right now.
You don't make that ideology toxic by acquiescing to it like moderate Dems consistently do. You make it toxic by providing a viable alternative. Moderate Dems are the reason the Overton Window has moved to the right. So it's good to frag them and put a real fighter in charge.

Right-wing fascists: "Immigrants are vermin who should be violently deported because they're poisoning the blood of our country!"
Moderate Democrats: "We agree that they are criminals who should be deported, but there's no need to do it in such a mean way!"
Leftists: "Actually, the anger and problems you're facing as our standard of living collapses are real, but the immigrants are not the cause, it's the billionaires and oligarchs, so redirect your hatred to them."
Now you’re operating from a fantasy again. The voting public said Kamala was TOO left wing, and the biggest criticism from the median voter is that Democrats went TOO far to the left. If the American public was craving left wing politics they would have not went with Trump.

The best compromise is for left wing candidates to go into areas that democrats have left behind, run socialists or progressives and see how they fair against a Bubba Cooter, staunch conservative in the backwoods of Alabama or the sticks in West Virginia.

PROVE TO US that yall can win in areas Democrats don’t win ALREADY.
 
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Outlaw

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I don't think this is true at all. America fukks with K-12 public schooling and social security and medicare/medicaid and the national park service as well as local public parks and free police and fire departments services and free roads, etc.

One of the major reasons Mamdani caught lightning is because he wasn't scared of that label. That's the message. There's no explaining away, it's just understanding that right-wing coded diss only works if you're scared of it too. People respect confidence. So sure, if your a Democrat whose knees are shaking when someone says socialism instead of donning the cap of FDR and pointing to the history of the party and all the foundational, beloved socialist institutions in our society and the very idea of helping the many instead of the few, you have no business being in charge of the ostensibly left political party.
Like I said, if you have to explain it then you’ve already lost the branding exercise.

Just because you denounce socialism publicly it doesn’t mean you can’t advocate for social programs.


Denouncing socialism just irritates the puritan left. No one else
 

the cac mamba

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Check out the Mandani thread, Nap and TCM are practically jizzing at the thought of him failing. They post more about him than the progressive posters do, it's weird. And those are just the posters I remember off head.
no, simply rejecting your bullshyt suggestion that democrats in the rest of the country need to emulate Mamdani. you have to answer for the fact that progressives don't win shyt outside of dark blue areas

and for the record, Eric Adams got 67% of new york. Mamdani got 51 :mjlol:
 

the cac mamba

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Me branding myself anything has nothing to do with the topic of dems attacking their left flank, dog are you on the spectrum? Seriously lol.

I could call myself a communist it wouldn't mean anything
pathetic non-answer

should democrats in swing states brand themselves as socialists? should the 2028 nominee? yes or no?
 

MAKAVELI25

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no, simply rejecting your bullshyt suggestion that democrats in the rest of the country need to emulate Mamdani. you have to answer for the fact that progressives don't win shyt outside of dark blue areas

and for the record, Eric Adams got 67% of new york. Mamdani got 51 :mjlol:

You have some kind of brain trauma. You already admitted that there are no posts of mine claiming that Democrats in the rest of the country need to emulate Mandani, and now you're back to that dumbass talking point.

You are clearly an idiot, but you might also just be a liar.
 

John Reena

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Meh I think Clinton and Kamala losing has more to do with misogyny and racism than their policy. When people were able to decide between Trump and Kamala’s policies without knowing which candidate was offering the policies, Kamala’s policies polled more favorably.




Good point but the voting electorate is around 40-50% Republican right now.

Now you’re operating from a fantasy again. The voting public said Kamala was TOO left wing, and the biggest criticism from the median voter is that Democrats went TOO far to the left. If the American public was craving left wing politics they would have not went with Trump.

The best compromise is for left wing candidates to go into areas that democrats have left behind, run socialists or progressives and see how they fair against a Bubba Cooter, staunch conservative in the backwoods of Alabama or the sticks in West Virginia.

PROVE TO US that yall can win in areas Democrats don’t win ALREADY.
He a racist white man, of course he gonna deflect about why Kamala lost.
 

King Kreole

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Meh I think Clinton and Kamala losing has more to do with misogyny and racism than their policy. When people were able to decide between Trump and Kamala’s policies without knowing which candidate was offering the policies, Kamala’s policies polled more favorably.




Good point but the voting electorate is around 40-50% Republican right now.

Now you’re operating from a fantasy again. The voting public said Kamala was TOO left wing, and the biggest criticism from the median voter is that Democrats went TOO far to the left. If the American public was craving left wing politics they would have went with Trump.

The best compromise is for left wing candidates to go into areas that democrats have left behind, run socialists or progressives and see how they fair against a Bubba Cooter, staunch conservative in the backwoods of Alabama or the sticks in West Virginia.

PROVE TO US that yall can win in areas Democrats don’t win ALREADY.
Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton both refused to run on any transformative policy ideas, so their branding gap was filled with their identity (with slightly varying degrees of complicity) and the politics surrounding it. If Harris ran a disciplined campaign around a single policy concept or idea like Mamdani just did, it would have been much harder to tag her with whatever hodgepodge of "left wing" (what you really mean is radical identity politics which is a neoliberal invention to avoid class politics) ideas.

The voting public didn't say that Kamala was too into universal healthcare or childcare or taxing billionaires, because she chose not to run on any of those policies. They said she didn't stand for anything relevant to their lives. The right was able to brand her as only standing for giving trans people sex-reassignment surgeries (which they erroneously label as a major left wing policy idea with the complicity of Moderate Dems) because she didn't give us anything else to counter with. Harris ran a centrist campaign, no matter how much y'all want to rewrite history in the wake of your massive L.
 

the cac mamba

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You have some kind of brain trauma. You already admitted that there are no posts of mine claiming that Democrats in the rest of the country need to emulate Mandani, and now you're back to that dumbass talking point.

You are clearly an idiot, but you might also just be a liar.
you insist on taking it personally, when i'm referring to the fact that progressives made the suggestion
 
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