Didn't kno Timbo samples a lot

[Smile Gang]

your analogies still don't make any sense

i have heard that this was completely replayed, there is a sample listed on whosampled but i think it's an interpolation. in your rules this song is ok
Devin The Dude - Doobie Ashtray - YouTube

I would always prefer original music to non-original music. After that, comes music that was re-played rather then sampled. When a song is replayed you don't have to pay the owner of the master recording for one, so it's cheaper than straight up taking the sample and makes more business sense. It's also more ethical i.e. if you didn't write the shyt yourself that's unfortunate but at least if you have musical talent enough to play the shyt out on your own I can respect that more than just pressing buttons and shyt.

What I don't know is if that's Premo himself sitting there playing guitar or if it's someone else doing it. Did Premo just come up with the idea to use that sample and then have somebody else play the guitar and Devin wrote the concept? It's hard to know these things without being present for the actual studio sessions or without hearing artists speak about them.

So to answer your question is that "cool" with me? I would prefer if the re-make "Doobie Ashtray" had a more obvious connection to the meaning of the song "Quit It" so that I could say "Oh, I see why they flipped that one to that one" other than, it was just a strong melody they liked so they took it. But meh if that's what it is that's what it is.

There's also context to be considered. Devin is a very humble guy and also a person who pays homage to music culture and culture in general. Timbaland is a fake me out super producer who jacks whole loops and shyt. Doobie Ashtray was an album cut from a non-mainstream artist. "Big Pimpin" for example, was a hip-hop smash from a major name. With greater privilege comes greater responsibility. It's shoplifting vs. armed robbery.

Also, Doobie Ashtray is a more clever song than the pop shyt Timbaland was putting out. It's a concept song that was on point, not just a "dance anthem" with 123ABC lyrics so the overall song is more redeeming than a lot of Timbaland material. Although at this point I'm probably venturing too far into the writers' credits.

I guess nah, I can't ride all the way for that shyt. But it doesn't give me the immediate creeps the way "Big Pimpin'" does now.

 

[Flav]

Smile Gang,not tryin to clown or nothin but who do you listen to in HipHop these days?can you post a small list of rappers that dont use samples that you listen to? for me its hard to listen to a lot of HipHop without samples unless its a few South artist that use the same rapid hi hats and 808.

 

[Reverend Jesse Jackson]

You are against sampling but for using Logic instruments

Those instruments are guess what..... SAMPLES

You can't tell me this beat:

is harder to make than:

Check out and see what some of the greats sampled:
Michael Jackson's Sample-Based Music | WhoSampled
The Beatles's Sample-Based Music | WhoSampled

 

[Smile Gang]

Smile Gang,not tryin to clown or nothin but who do you listen to in HipHop these days?can you post a small list of rappers that dont use samples that you listen to? for me its hard to listen to a lot of HipHop without samples unless its a few South artist that use the same rapid hi hats and 808.

Well I don't think "rappers" use samples often unless you're talking about the composition of the lyrics and melodies. It's more so on the producer in this discussion.

Right now I'm feeling Future, 2 Chainz, Trinidad James as far as rappers.

I'd go with Mike Will, Southside, and Luger as far as production.

So no, I don't feel clowned. If you were expecting me to say I listen to a lot of sample driven boom bap up north shyt, no. That's not my speed.

 

[Smile Gang]

You are against sampling but for using Logic instruments

Those instruments are guess what..... SAMPLES

You can't tell me this beat: Tyga - Rack City (Instrumental) - YouTube

is harder to make than: 9th Wonder - No Future (Instrumental) - YouTube

Check out and see what some of the greats sampled:
Michael Jackson's Sample-Based Music | WhoSampled
The Beatles's Sample-Based Music | WhoSampled

I already said I am cool with using samples of sounds. Samples of sounds are different from samples of multiple notes, which at that point are compositions.

And, I think that DJ Mustard shyt is trash. No disrespect to him or his fans but those beats are terrible.

The thing about 9th Wonder is as soon as that song comes on, no later than 0:001 second into it, I'm already listening to some sped up sample of somebody else's music. He doesn't even wait 2 seconds to develop anything on his own it's just "Let's get right to the swindle."

Not only that, but the 9th Wonder example is just plainly unpleasing to the ear. It's blatantly obvious that it's just an attempt to throw together various chopped up pieces of real songs and put an out of whack drum beat behind them to the best of his ability. The shyt doesn't play like a song it sounds like a compilation of 4 second pieces.

Lastly, it's way different to have a brass patch in Logic and play a melody with it than to start a song right out the break with some soul shyt sped up. The two aren't comparable. And yes, I consider using the pre-created loops in Logic to be cheesy too.

 

[Reverend Jesse Jackson]

I already said I am cool with using samples of sounds. Samples of sounds are different from samples of multiple notes, which at that point are compositions.

And, I think that DJ Mustard shyt is trash. No disrespect to him or his fans but those beats are terrible.

The thing about 9th Wonder is as soon as that song comes on, no later than 0:001 second into it, I'm already listening to some sped up sample of somebody else's music. He doesn't even wait 2 seconds to develop anything on his own it's just "Let's get right to the swindle."

Not only that, but the 9th Wonder example is just plainly unpleasing to the ear. It's blatantly obvious that it's just an attempt to throw together various chopped up pieces of real songs and put an out of whack drum beat behind them to the best of his ability. The shyt doesn't play like a song it sounds like a compilation of 4 second pieces.

Lastly, it's way different to have a brass patch in Logic and play a melody with it than to start a song right out the break with some soul shyt sped up. The two aren't comparable. And yes, I consider using the pre-created loops in Logic to be cheesy too.

I'm listening to somebody else's brass preset and a basic trap melody that has already been done before.

 

[Smile Gang]

I'm listening to somebody else's brass preset and a basic trap melody that has already been done before.

They set it up that way then.

If you're talking about something like Logic it comes with various brass instruments.

There are pre-recorded loop melodies, but that's not what I'm talking about using. I'm talking about using a patch where if you press down one note it will play that note and that note alone, not play out a melody for you.

The pre-recorded melodies are cheese.

 

[TELL ME YA CHEESIN FAM?]

I'm not understanding your thought process in that statement, and the arrogance to think because you are American you can't be sued by a foreigner. shyt is false and has happened many times

yes that was a stupid statement

and if Timbo is really doing this then he is a thief to me..and i dont respect thieves

I cant resect any producer/beatmaker who does this..

U sample,u pay up and give credit

Come up with your own shyt if u cant do the latter

 

[spliz]

I've been making beats (more as a hobby) for a dozen years and i started with a 16 track keyboard,with floppy disk. got probaly 400 beats less than 5 % are remakes/interpolations. It's waaaaaaaaaaaaaay EDIT (HARDER) to make something hot from scratch.

no the fukk it aint....and im tellin u as a nikka who has done both....it's only hard when u dont really got an ear for music....

 

[spliz]

I'll be honest because I feel that's important. I'm not a big fan of Premo's production and have never much gotten into it.

That being said, if he comes up with the melody first, why does he need the samples unless he feels like something is missing to complete the track? Maybe he could make a song pop without samples, but we'll never know because he does add in the samples.

Like say Johnny is a good Spanish student and he could do well on a Spanish test on his own. Once he goes and grabs Sarah's paper and checks out her answers it's hard to go back and say what he could have done, we can only go off what he did in fact do which is supplement his work with the work of others.

That's what sampling is, supplementing one's work with the work of others.

If one's work is strong enough on its own merits why do that? A person who is truly confident in their craft wouldn't even want to allow anyone else to represent them.

Could you imagine Kobe asking someone else to take a couple of his shots for him? Nah, Kobe feels like he's the best he wants to shoot all his shots himself if his name is going to be in the paper and the game is on the line.

But maybe Premo could produce without all the samples. I wouldn't know. I do know when I went to that sample site dude had almost 2000 samples lifted to his name.

first off...could u just STOP WITH UR DUMB ASS ANALOGIES???!!!!!......second....what Premo does is chop a sample up into a bunch of pieces...and replays the notes how he wants...see..that question that u asked..PROVES u don't know what it is to make a hip hop beat..yes..u heard of the equipment...but no...u don't know what it takes...nikka...I can take a sample...get a midi keyboard...chop it in a million pieces...one for each key...and replay it like a piano....and something is wrong with that?...u asking why does he need samples if he plays the notes in his head?...maybe cause the muthafukka likes the SOUND...and it would be nearly impossible for him to produce that sound for himself unless he had the resources of orchestras n such...I sampled an opera sound before...now...aside from sampling...HOW THE fukk WOULD I GET AN OPERA?????......u got em on deck nikka?....if so..give me the hook up...wow I can't believe im goin back n forth with someone like this on a fukkin HIP HOP forum...u didn't even know where the sample or theme for Scarface and Pac's Smile came from...which means u don't know much about other music either..cause that's a known song that was sampled...

 

[Smile Gang]

first off...could u just STOP WITH UR DUMB ASS ANALOGIES???!!!!!......second....what Premo does is chop a sample up into a bunch of pieces...and replays the notes how he wants...see..that question that u asked..PROVES u don't know what it is to make a hip hop beat..yes..u heard of the equipment...but no...u don't know what it takes...nikka...I can take a sample...get a midi keyboard...chop it in a million pieces...one for each key...and replay it like a piano....and something is wrong with that?...u asking why does he need samples if he plays the notes in his head?...maybe cause the muthafukka likes the SOUND...and it would be nearly impossible for him to produce that sound for himself unless he had the resources of orchestras n such...I sampled an opera sound before...now...aside from sampling...HOW THE fukk WOULD I GET AN OPERA?????......u got em on deck nikka?....if so..give me the hook up...wow I can't believe im goin back n forth with someone like this on a fukkin HIP HOP forum...u didn't even know where the sample or theme for Scarface and Pac's Smile came from...which means u don't know much about other music either..cause that's a known song that was sampled...

First, no, not going to stop with the analogies. They are great. If you're not properly using them as tools to understand coherent arguments, you might want to step your reading comprehension and analogous comparison game up.

Second, I already said multiple, multiple times now in this thread, that I am cool with sampling a sound, a single sound, and playing it like an instrument. That is different from using a sample that has multiple notes, at which point what you are sampling is a composition. I don't fool with producers sampling other people's compositions of multiple notes or playing loops.

Third, how would you create an orchestra sound? Is this a trick question? How can you seriously say that while accusing me of not knowing about music? You could go into a program like Logic and play with the patches in the Orchestra folder. They have strings, brass, woodwinds, everything you need to play some orchestra shyt. SMH at someone who claims to know about music production not knowing that these instruments are available. For a real producer, if you like part of something the Philadelphia Philharmonic Orchestra did, if you have any kind of ear whatsoever it should be nothing to open up a program like Logic and play that shyt over using Logic strings, brass, woodwinds etc. Better yet, you could play your own original orchestra style melody. You're acting like that is impossible, like real producers don't do it every day. SMH at yall niccas thinking creating real music is impossible.

Finally, not being aware of the hook to an S.O.S. Band song from 1983 does not equate to not knowing about music. I was in diapers in 1983 and definitely not thinking about the S.O.S. Band. Even if I did happen to hear that particular song at some point in my young life, I wasn't filing it away in my memory banks so that I could identify it in case my favorite rappers might utilize its sample over a decade later. Dudes who aren't Sample producers don't think about all that obscure music digging in the crates shyt. And, that's not even relevant. I didn't know where any of those Timbaland samples came from. Does that change the fact that it's not his original music?

 

[spliz]

First, no, not going to stop with the analogies. They are great. If you're not properly using them as tools to understand coherent arguments, you might want to step your reading comprehension and analogous comparison game up.

Second, I already said multiple, multiple times now in this thread, that I am cool with sampling a sound, a single sound, and playing it like an instrument. That is different from using a sample that has multiple notes, at which point what you are sampling is a composition. I don't fool with producers sampling other people's compositions of multiple notes or playing loops.

Third, how would you create an orchestra sound? Is this a trick question? How can you seriously say that while accusing me of not knowing about music? You could go into a program like Logic and play with the patches in the Orchestra folder. They have strings, brass, woodwinds, everything you need to play some orchestra shyt. SMH at someone who claims to know about music production not knowing that these instruments are available. For a real producer, if you like part of something the Philadelphia Philharmonic Orchestra did, if you have any kind of ear whatsoever it should be nothing to open up a program like Logic and play that shyt over using Logic strings, brass, woodwinds etc. Better yet, you could play your own original orchestra style melody. You're acting like that is impossible, like real producers don't do it every day. SMH at yall niccas thinking creating real music is impossible.

Finally, not being aware of the hook to an S.O.S. Band song from 1983 does not equate to not knowing about music. I was in diapers in 1983 and definitely not thinking about the S.O.S. Band. Even if I did happen to hear that particular song at some point in my young life, I wasn't filing it away in my memory banks so that I could identify it in case my favorite rappers might utilize its sample over a decade later. Dudes who aren't Sample producers don't think about all that obscure music digging in the crates shyt. And, that's not even relevant. I didn't know where any of those Timbaland samples came from. Does that change the fact that it's not his original music?

muthafukka I KNOW about the stock sounds...im talking bout sounds of a REAL orchestra...NOT that electronic shyt...how would I get it?..smart nikka...so u sayin JUST cause u was young at the time..u can't fukk wit music before ur time?...unless u some nikka that "digs in the crates"?...u know what?..why am I even arguing with u?...I was tryna keep my composure with u but ur an idiot..and u fukked this whole thread up....peace out...

 

[Smile Gang]

muthafukka I KNOW about the stock sounds...im talking bout sounds of a REAL orchestra...NOT that electronic shyt...how would I get it?..smart nikka...

If you've got talent you can play and manipulate stock sounds and make it sound like a real orchestra. Niccas do it every day B.

 

[spliz]

If you've got talent you can play and manipulate stock sounds and make it sound like a real orchestra. Niccas do it every day B.

nikkas do it everyday b?...lol...yo...do u make music?...cause my bet is u DONT...

 

[Smile Gang]

It's not about me. Whether I make music or not has nothing to do with the discussion. Are you saying there aren't producers out there who can take orchestra sounds out of a program like Logic and make the shyt sound like an orchestra? You're saying the only way to do it is to bring a full orchestra into the studio?