Dirk is better than Charles Barkley, KG and Malone

[AnonymityX1000]

And yet, only 1 of these 4 guys won a title as the man.

RPG playoffs -

Karl - 10.7
KG - 11.0
Dirk - 10.3


Sorry, but what Dirk did works, you can talk about defense all you want, but at the end of the day KG & Karl always came up short when it mattered. Only 1 guy led his team to a title, and went through a murderers row of the best players in the league to do it.

Na, I see your point. It's a strong one. I think it is pointing out in basketball if you can get the ball in the hole in the toughest of situations it trumps everything else.

 

[Jram]

Yeah, at this point one of the only things I'll neg rep is KG stanning at the expense of reality. Cats are willing to upgrade that horrible Mavs supporting cast and downgrade a Celtics team with two hall of famers and a young all star. Incredible.

Lol, ok, go ahead and give me that negative rep because I disagree. I hope it satisfies you.

I like to compare individuals on the merits of what is in their control. Dirk made his run, but actually wasn't even the best player in the finals. I'm not going to punish KG because he played with better players.

Kevin Garnett is a better basketball player, from a career perspective, than Dirk. On one hand they both have similar offensive production in their careers. Offense is close. On the other Garnett is a game changing defender and Dirk is nothing on D.

If all you are going to do is compare rings and take ONE playoff run to make a conclusion, it's incomplete.

 

[the cool]

Lol, ok, go ahead and give me that negative rep because I disagree. I hope it satisfies you.

I like to compare individuals on the merits of what is in their control. Dirk made his run, but actually wasn't even the best player in the finals. I'm not going to punish KG because he played with better players.

Kevin Garnett is a better basketball player, from a career perspective, than Dirk. On one hand they both have similar offensive production in their careers. Offense is close. On the other Garnett is a game changing defender and Dirk is nothing on D.

If all you are going to do is compare rings and take ONE playoff run to make a conclusion, it's incomplete.

damn another horrible post in this thread. dirk led bum squads to two nba finals. he would have two rings if the nba didnt conspire for mark cuban to lose. nver seen so many phantom calls for d-whistle. a 67 win team in the regular season.

 

[the cool]

Dirk is not better than KG. Dirk is the the shooter and scorer, but KG does everything else better.

everything but lead his team to wins and finals appearances being the go-to guy

they avg the same rebounds per game. i never seen a player go ham on dirk in the playoffs

dwight howard does everything better than dirk other than shoot and score also

give me dirk any day.

 

[Walt]

Lol, ok, go ahead and give me that negative rep because I disagree. I hope it satisfies you.

Not at all. People disagree with me all the time, vehemently. But disregarding reality in service to a dark ass snake? Gotta make Piru Paul Pierce proud and red you up.

All that other shyt you typed is hogwash. One playoff run, huh? Nah, 50 win season after 50 win season in a tough ass conference as the clear cut #1 top dog and numerous huge playoff performances with the defense keying on you often to the disregard of your teammates. That's Dirk.

Being a long pack of soy sauce selling woof tickets and getting headbutted by ZaZa and jaw-jacked by Anthony Peeler and actively running from the post in the clutch while Cassell, Sprewell, Pierce, Allen, Rondo assert themselves, multiple first round exits, missing the playoffs, and no finals runs until he was playing with two Hall of Famers and one of the best young guards in the game... that's KG.

I wouldn't even take KG over Barkley, to be honest. Unless with Sir Charles we're going to "hold his teammates against him." People forget what a fukking beast Chucky B. was in his prime. And the thing about the whole completely slanted nonsense of "KG's D makes him more complete than the other PFs" nonsense is it overvalues his D the same way you accuse others of overvaluing offense. Players like Dirk and Charles and Karl are not "slightly better" on offense than KG, that's a weird strictly by the numbers argument where a 27 point game is kind of the same as a 22 point game is kind of the same as a 17 point game until it all becomes relative and retarded. That's not how basketball works. Some players are extremely dynamic on offense and are go-to guys, others open the court up in such a way that double and triple teams in the playoffs might decrease their scoring but the efficiency of every other bum on the team increases. Dirk completely changes what defenses do, KG doesn't. Barkley could take over any given game in the post, KG never could. They are a full level above KG on offense. And on D, KG isn't reinventing the wheel. He's an excellent defender, but it's not as if Dirk is a cardboard cutout completely destroying his team on D. And I'd add that defensive anchors are less rare than clear cut #1 offensive beasts, from Ben Wallace to Dikembe Mutombo to Tyson Chandler you can find a defensive anchor more easily than you can find a player with Dirk's offensive gifts. He's one of the ultimate matchup problems in the NBA, and gives you work on the boards as a bonus too. You can build a title team with him as the clear #1 piece. The same can be said for Sir Charles. The same has never been proven for KG, period.

 

[Jram]

Not at all. People disagree with me all the time, vehemently. But disregarding reality in service to a dark ass snake? Gotta make Piru Paul Pierce proud and red you up.

All that other shyt you typed is hogwash. One playoff run, huh? Nah, 50 win season after 50 win season in a tough ass conference as the clear cut #1 top dog and numerous huge playoff performances with the defense keying on you often to the disregard of your teammates. That's Dirk.

Being a long pack of soy sauce selling woof tickets and getting headbutted by ZaZa and jaw-jacked by Anthony Peeler and actively running from the post in the clutch while Cassell, Sprewell, Pierce, Allen, Rondo assert themselves, multiple first round exits, missing the playoffs, and no finals runs until he was playing with two Hall of Famers and one of the best young guards in the game... that's KG.

I wouldn't even take KG over Barkley, to be honest. Unless with Sir Charles we're going to "hold his teammates against him." People forget what a fukking beast Chucky B. was in his prime. And the thing about the whole completely slanted nonsense of "KG's D makes him more complete than the other PFs" nonsense is it overvalues his D the same way you accuse others of overvaluing offense. Players like Dirk and Charles and Karl are not "slightly better" on offense than KG, that's a weird strictly by the numbers argument where a 27 point game is kind of the same as a 22 point game is kind of the same as a 17 point game until it all becomes relative and retarded. That's not how basketball works. Some players are extremely dynamic on offense and are go-to guys, others open the court up in such a way that double and triple teams in the playoffs might decrease their scoring but the efficiency of every other bum on the team increases. Dirk completely changes what defenses do, KG doesn't. Barkley could take over any given game in the post, KG never could. They are a full level above KG on offense. And on D, KG isn't reinventing the wheel. He's an excellent defender, but it's not as if Dirk is a cardboard cutout completely destroying his team on D. And I'd add that defensive anchors are less rare than clear cut #1 offensive beasts, from Ben Wallace to Dikembe Mutombo to Tyson Chandler you can find a defensive anchor more easily than you can find a player with Dirk's offensive gifts. He's one of the ultimate matchup problems in the NBA, and gives you work on the boards as a bonus too. You can build a title team with him as the clear #1 piece. The same can be said for Sir Charles. The same has never been proven for KG, period.

When basketball gets simplified to playing team results, it's just not enough. Like the 50-win stuff that ignores than Dirk has always had better teams.

It's not overrating defense so say it's really important to have a game changing, dominant defensive player. Dirk wouldn't have won without onhe. When you add that to KG's offense, he's more valuable overall, so it's also not as simple as saying 'It's easier to find one" when KG isn't Tyson Chandler, obviously. He's Tyson Chandler plus 20,10 and 5 a night.

I understand the criticism of KG in the playoffs. That shows itself in the numbers, actually. But to me the drop off isn't enough to justify it, when taking into account a complete career.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

Dirk won a title with JJ Barea, Brian Cardinal, DeShawn Stevenson, and Brendan Haywood logging significant minutes throughout the playoffs.

Anyone who pretends Dirk had some stacked team, and that it wasn't amazing to watch the Mavs not just beat but eviscerate teams on the way to a title is nothing but a fukking moron at this point.

KG didn't "get a squad." He joined a squad. That wasn't his team any more than it was Pierce's team. Dalls is Dirk's team, period, always has been. Stop bullshytting.

Not to mention Dirk got cheated out of another title. He has multiple significant playoff runs during which he was the clear #1 player on his team at all times.

Jason Kidd aint a HOF?

And if there were more blacks voting, Shawn Marion would be in the HOF as well

 

[the cool]

And if there were more blacks voting, Shawn Marion would be in the HOF as well

 

[Walt]

Jason Kidd aint a HOF?

Yeah, and so is Bill Russell. Jason Kidd of 2011 was not playing at a Hall of Fame level, an All Star level, or even a top 15 guard level.

Black people don't even like Shawn Marion like that, what the fukk? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[mastermind]

It's not overrating defense so say it's really important to have a game changing, dominant defensive player.

and you cant win without a great, changing offensive player like KG got in Boston with Pierce.

It goes both ways, the problem is you only see it one way. You only see it one way when it can be the other.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

No Shawn Marion = no championships for the MAVs. He is one of the most versatile defenders the game has seen. He is the reason why Dirk could just focus on "shooting jumpers"

I know yall won't see it like that.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

Yeah, and so is Bill Russell. Jason Kidd of 2011 was not playing at a Hall of Fame level, an All Star level, or even a top 15 guard level.

Black people don't even like Shawn Marion like that, what the fukk? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Teenagers who just start watching ball don't, but true ball heads do.

Jason Kidd did play at a high level in 2011 and its quite obvious if you watched the series.

 

[Jplaya2023]

the bigget reason dallas won that title in 2011 was because of the signing of Chandler that impacted the defense and gave them someone to stop that slew of perimeter players they faced in the pllayoffs. Without him they lose in the first or second round. Dirk didn't magically become better in 2011, he got better pieces around him and they took off and won the ship.

To me it doesn't make him better than chuck, malong or KG

 

[Walt]

Like the 50-win stuff that ignores than Dirk has always had better teams.

Let me guess... team success doesn't prove anything... when Dirk's shytty team wins a chip all that means anything is that he had some poor shooting games when the team D was completely focused on running 3 players at him... there's always a reason the Tim Duncans and Dirks of the world are automatic contenders year in and year out that has little to do with them, and there's always a reason that KG's teams were missing the playoffs and getting smacked in the early rounds and it has nothing to do with him.

Yeah, of course.

It's not overrating defense so say it's really important to have a game changing, dominant defensive player.

No kidding. that's not the point I'm making. Stay on track with me.

When you add that to KG's offense, he's more valuable overall

That's pretty much as simplistic an analysis as possible. He plays better defense, and he also scores... add the two, he's just more valuable! Oh, his team didn't do that well? Has nothing to do with his value! His value exists in some kind of vacuum!

so it's also not as simple as saying 'It's easier to find one" when KG isn't Tyson Chandler, obviously. He's Tyson Chandler plus 20,10 and 5 a night.

Yes, it is that simple, actually. You can more easily find a roleplayer to focus on D than you can find a roleplayer to be a dynamic offensive force who completely alters the other teams defensive focus. Dirk is a player you can build a championship team around out of spare parts. KG isn't.

Also, take that 20, 10, and 5 bullshyt back to pretendville. Show me the season he had like that post-2006. I'll wait. It's just one of those dumb ass stats people throw out to better their defense of KG. He hasn't averaged 10 rebounds since 2006, nor has he averaged as many as 3 assists since 2007. He hasn't averaged even 16 points a game since 2007. Stop the nonsense. Since his second year in the NBA Dirk has never averaged fewer than 21.8 points in a season. Dirk has been assisting and rebounding at pretty much the same exact rate as KG for years now. Dirk gets to the line more often, and makes FTs at a higher %. Dirk can shoot 3s, mid range shots, post, and drive. If someone tells me that KG is somehow close to equal to Dirk on offense because he averages 20-10-5 (which, by the way, he doesn't), then I know right away that person doesn't know much about basketball beyond the casual level.

KG's absolute best years on those wack ass Minny teams are slightly better than Dirk's absolute best years. But Dirk is not only more consistently outproducing KG in terms of advanced stats, his career has been one of sustained excellence or improvement as the years go on, while KG tails off. Dirk's career arc is simply more impressive than KGs, and him leading teams to two title runs, one of which was an all time bum team winning a chip, can't be brushed off as "Dirk had better teammates." also, no star player has had his supporting cast overrated more than Dirk, almost always by KG stans. You'd think all those years of the Mavs having fringe all star tweeners and Michael Finley was the equivalent of the Heat's "Big 3" or something. Arguing that Dirk isn't a better building block for a title contender on a year in, year out basis is just fukking weird and stubborn.

 

[Walt]

Jason Kidd did play at a high level in 2011 and its quite obvious if you watched the series.

He put up 8 and 8 on 36% shooting and couldn't stay in front of any point guards on defense. A high level? fukk outta here. At least be semi-realistic here and say "he hit a decent % of the spot up 3s Dirk created for him."