Do these young rappers rap off-beat on purpose or can they just not rap on beat?

Double Burger With Cheese

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Some if them be off drum beat but in the melody beat. Like how rza does. Most people think rza is off beat...he doesn't rap to the drum beat how most rappers do...he raps to the melody.

I won't give most these young jits that genius tho. They just amateurs.

Naw man I made a thread about this some months ago and people were trying to flip it like I don’t know what being on beat and in the pocket is. nikkas tried be on some, naw you just listening wrong, they are actually very on beat, and just have an unorthodox flow where they sound off beat but they really are....nikka please lol. These mothafukkas are off beat as fukk.
 

Dzali OG

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Naw man I made a thread about this some months ago and people were trying to flip it like I don’t know what being on beat and in the pocket is. nikkas tried be on some, naw you just listening wrong, they are actually very on beat, and just have an unorthodox flow where they sound off beat but they really are....nikka please lol. These mothafukkas are off beat as fukk.

Yeah I relent that most of them are and it's because they've only been rappin like 4 months.
 

IllmaticDelta

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Matter fact, would you compare some of this offbeat rapping to....I think it's called skatting?

Where the people are actually kinda talking over the beat. Now that's not the same as what rza does, cause he's on beat, just a different beat than people are aware of.

So are these new artists closer to skat?


it's common Jazz practice to be either behind the beat, ahead of the beat or on the beat while still being ON TIME within a song




the reason some of the these rappers sound off to many people is because their ears within hiphop are too used to listening to people in 4/4 time and ON the beat. This off beat type rapping is more in tune with a more experimental approach like you get in Jazz



this touches on the same concept but within funk guitar (you can apply it to rap vocals)


 

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it's common Jazz practice to be either behind the beat, ahead of the beat or on the beat while still being ON TIME within a song




the reason some of the these rappers sound off to many people is because their ears within hiphop are too used to listening to people in 4/4 time and ON the beat. This off beat type rapping is more in tune with a more experimental approach like you get in Jazz



this touches on the same concept but within funk guitar (you can apply it to rap vocals)





So looking at those videos...it's being suggested that they are behind the beat (I believe) on purpose?

The difference I notice is a rapid, double delivery is suitable when you're behind a beat. Rappers with a slower more drawn out delivery can be in front of a beat.

Are you suggesting these youth are more musically advanced than us :usure:.

Which if so...I have the humility to accept. Because the 90s were more advanced than the 80s.
 

Art Barr

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it's common Jazz practice to be either behind the beat, ahead of the beat or on the beat while still being ON TIME within a song




the reason some of the these rappers sound off to many people is because their ears within hiphop are too used to listening to people in 4/4 time and ON the beat. This off beat type rapping is more in tune with a more experimental approach like you get in Jazz



this touches on the same concept but within funk guitar (you can apply it to rap vocals)





stop making excuses.
these nikkaz are offkey and lack any ability to pocket the level of rhyme they create on beat. Which is why there is this attention to RnB crooning with auto tune.
where there has become this next level attention to be the evolution of what if the police academy sound efx guy had a re-Ignited successful sellout career in rap and RnB. Plus an inability to have any level of vocal tonality. Or real resonating level of high quality vocal quality.


art barr
 
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JMD

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Matter fact, would you compare some of this offbeat rapping to....I think it's called skatting?

Where the people are actually kinda talking over the beat. Now that's not the same as what rza does, cause he's on beat, just a different beat than people are aware of.

So are these new artists closer to skat?


I would not place RZA in this catergory

as far as skat thiese new artists are sh1t so yeah
 

IllmaticDelta

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So looking at those videos...it's being suggested that they are behind the beat (I believe) on purpose?

The difference I notice is a rapid, double delivery is suitable when you're behind a beat. Rappers with a slower more drawn out delivery can be in front of a beat.

Are you suggesting these youth are more musically advanced than us :usure:.

Which if so...I have the humility to accept. Because the 90s were more advanced than the 80s.


it's definitely on purpose.....they're trying to unlock new flows/distinct sounds to/for their region of origin and you can't do that unless you play with the syncopation/timing. The original NYC rap flow was 100% 4/4 on beat and that's what most hiphop listeners ears are tuned to

Hip-hop scholars also make use of the same flow diagrams: the books How to Rap and How to Rap 2 use the diagrams to explain rap's triplets, flams, rests, rhyme schemes, runs of rhyme, and breaking rhyme patterns, among other techniques.[87] Similar systems are used by PhD musicologists Adam Krims in his book Rap Music and the Poetics of Identity[93] and Kyle Adams in his academic work on flow.[94]

Because rap revolves around a strong 4/4 beat,[95] with certain syllables said in time to the beat, all the notational systems have a similar structure: they all have the same 4 beat numbers at the top of the diagram, so that syllables can be written in-line with the beat numbers.[95] This allows devices such as rests, "lazy tails", flams, and other rhythmic techniques to be shown, as well as illustrating where different rhyming words fall in relation to the music.[87]



History of flow
Old school flows were relatively basic and used only few syllables per bar, simple rhythmic patterns, and basic rhyming techniques and rhyme schemes.[60][66] Melle Mel is cited as an MC who epitomizes the old school flow – Kool Moe Dee says, "from 1970 to 1978 we rhymed one way [then] Melle Mel, in 1978, gave us the new cadence we would use from 1978 to 1986".[67] He's the first emcee to explode in a new rhyme cadence, and change the way every emcee rhymed forever. Rakim, The Notorious B.I.G., and Eminem have flipped the flow, but Melle Mel's downbeat on the two, four, kick to snare cadence is still the rhyme foundation all emcees are building on".[68]

Artists and critics often credit Rakim with creating the overall shift from the more simplistic old school flows to more complex flows near the beginning of hip hop's new school[69] – Kool Moe Dee says, "any emcee that came after 1986 had to study Rakim just to know what to be able to do.[70] Rakim, in 1986, gave us flow and that was the rhyme style from 1986 to 1994.[67] From that point on, anybody emceeing was forced to focus on their flow".[71] Kool Moe Dee explains that before Rakim, the term 'flow' wasn't widely used – "Rakim is basically the inventor of flow. We were not even using the word flow until Rakim came along. It was called rhyming, it was called cadence, but it wasn't called flow. Rakim created flow!"[72] He adds that while Rakim upgraded and popularized the focus on flow, "he didn't invent the word".[70]

Kool Moe Dee states that Biggie introduced a newer flow which "dominated from 1994 to 2002",[67] and also says that Method Man was "one of the emcees from the early to mid-'90s that ushered in the era of flow ... Rakim invented it, Big Daddy Kane, KRS-One, and Kool G Rap expanded it, but Biggie and Method Man made flow the single most important aspect of an emcee's game".[73] He also cites Craig Mack as an artist who contributed to developing flow in the '90s.[74]

Music scholar Adam Krims says, "the flow of MCs is one of the profoundest changes that separates out new-sounding from older-sounding music ... it is widely recognized and remarked that rhythmic styles of many commercially successful MCs since roughly the beginning of the 1990s have progressively become faster and more 'complex'".[60] He cites "members of the Wu-Tang Clan, Nas, AZ, Big Pun, and Ras Kass, just to name a few"[75] as artists who exemplify this progression.

Kool Moe Dee adds, "in 2002 Eminem created the song that got the first Oscar in Hip-Hop history [Lose Yourself] ... and I would have to say that his flow is the most dominant right now (2003)".[67]

Styles
There are many different styles of flow, with different terminology used by different people – stic.man of Dead Prez uses the following terms –

Alternatively, music scholar Adam Krims uses the following terms –




it's like time sigs in jazz

 

Awesome Wells

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Dudes don't give a damn about the art.
The women got better cadence and deliveries. We never seen shyt like this.

This right here.

There's an art to flow.

Delivery and cadence are mad important aspects of being an MC, if you take it seriously. But those fundamentals are kinda things that a lot of the newer rappers really don’t give a shyt about. The standard is lower now, so their focus is just to rap and make a song. They're not worried about being in the pocket or penning memorable verses like that. There are definitely legends who did the off-beat thing, but even when they did it, it would be off to the point where it still stayed in the pocket of the track's bounce. Today, dudes make shyt that you can barely listen to because it's so sloppily done, lol.
 

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i think its more they cant rap on beat. i hate when people bring up silkk and 40 for "rapping off beat" , that was a stylistic choice. silkk can rap on beat fine but was rapping the way he was cause it was more interesting. 40 was always on beat he just rapped in a different style than people were used to.

a lot of these new guys punch in and try to do too much without really feeling the beat. so they sound off when the whole song is done.
 

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Some if them be off drum beat but in the melody beat. Like how rza does. Most people think rza is off beat...he doesn't rap to the drum beat how most rappers do...he raps to the melody.

I won't give most these young jits that genius tho. They just amateurs.

:ohhh: :ohhh::ohhh: His verse on "Triumph" sounds like that. You could sing it if you wanted to.
 
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