isn't that essentially what the universe is doing though?
the amount of time and things in "the universe" is finite
Do you all believe in the Infinite monkey theorem?
- Thread starter Blackking
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the amount of time and things in "the universe" is finite
Brown_Pride
All Star
the amount of "things" yes...maybe i think.
we're assuming that we understand that matter doesn't come from nothing, if it does then we don't konw that for sure. Same with the concept of time, particularly given the variable of different dimensions.In our "the universe" though...yeah i guess...
how do you know this??
the amount of "things" yes...maybe i think.
In our "the universe" though...yeah i guess...
that's why I put "the universe" in quotes. I don't want to get too far into the concepts of "before" or "outside" "the universe"
A success in the sense that the laws have all come together in a way that supports the formation of planets, stars, galaxies etc. You fukk with some of the laws just slightly and it could prevent anything from forming.mnakes me wonder why you assume ours is the "success" ?
We may be the splash out the spaghetti sauce that was never intended to be or result of chance. On the requirement of laws...
we assume these "laws" were "codified" when really they may just be the way things happen. Let's say you tied a ball to a string then to a stick and spun the string so that as it spun the string rapped around the stick until it ultimately wound around the stick. Now let's say a tiny human on the ground was watching this process through a telescope. Do you suppose he would wonder why you created the laws that controlled the rotation of that ball around that stick?
The shyt we don't know is just mind boggling ain't it?
You can't just assume they were codified. You need evidence.
Your scenario is a bit absurd, I don't even know how to address it
I also think believers use the "SO ALL THIS STUFF JUST HAPPENED BY CHANCE?
" as a way to somehow insult scientifically literate folks, as well as putting words in their mouth. Yet they think their "god did it" explanation is somehow more satisfactory, but it isn't and that response explains NOTHING. And our laws of physics can't even explain what happens in a black hole.
Until we can create mini-universes and observe them to see what their laws of physics are like I don't see how we would ever answer the "why" question or "how" the laws are determined.
I just never understand how the folks who are always asking "Why" or "what" supposedly set the laws up when most of them don't even understand the laws in the first place, talk about jumping the gun. Let's atleast unite quantum mechanics and relativity first before going down that black hole.
Prodigital
All Star
Wouldn't quite say its the same. The universe isnt doing anything, its in self infinite. Not the perceivable by us universe, but the boundless "if i had a light ship i could travel in the up direction forever" infinite universe.
isn't that essentially what the universe is doing though?
And then things get more complicated from there cause time has no increments, start, or end. So to give infinite monkeys an infinite amount of time to do anything makes zero sense. Shiiit, einstein already proved that time is relative, so to give an infinite amount of a relative quantity is a
Its just a stupid paradox imo.
Taking it back to the monkeys, if the probabilities dont converge, even with infinity, it shouldnt happen. We didn't just turn into humans because earth been here for a long time and the universe is old, everything we are is a product of beneficiary genetics. It would never benefit the monkeys to randomly type shakespear in a billion million years. Now lets say theres a monkey society where monkey novels and narratives are enjoyed by monkey civilians and monkey royalty...
sounds kinda human 
VerbalIntercourse
Banned
I don't understand? how can you believe in a the infinite monkey theorem? There is nothing to "believe"
If you think you have to "Believe" that, then it just shows your level of intelligence and education.
It's basically like the lottery-- Except with more digits. Even if the odds are 1 trillion to one, if the monkeys type a piece of text 1-5 trillion times. Odds are it might happen at least once.
My question is... How can you not understand something like this? It's not a matter of belief, it is a matter of fact.
If you think you have to "Believe" that, then it just shows your level of intelligence and education.
It's basically like the lottery-- Except with more digits. Even if the odds are 1 trillion to one, if the monkeys type a piece of text 1-5 trillion times. Odds are it might happen at least once.
My question is... How can you not understand something like this? It's not a matter of belief, it is a matter of fact.
Brown_Pride
All Star
yeah i think it was either you or sensitive blake that went down that road with me before and taught me a few things;)
I think Neil Degrasse Tyson the gawd would argue that time is semi-infinite in the direction of the expansion.
there's a lot of ways to look at the infinite
this is one of my favorites:
Brown_Pride
All Star
so you're saying it's like two parallel lines. You can give them forever to go but it doesn't mean they will ever intersect.Wouldn't quite say its the same. The universe isnt doing anything, its in self infinite. Not the perceivable by us universe, but the boundless "if i had a light ship i could travel in the up direction forever" infinite universe.
And then things get more complicated from there cause time has no increments, start, or end. So to give infinite monkeys an infinite amount of time to do anything makes zero sense. Shiiit, einstein already proved that time is relative, so to give an infinite amount of a relative quantity is a
Its just a stupid paradox imo.
Taking it back to the monkeys, if the probabilities dont converge, even with infinity, it shouldnt happen. We didn't just turn into humans because earth been here for a long time and the universe is old, everything we are is a product of beneficiary genetics. It would never benefit the monkeys to randomly type shakespear in a billion million years. Now lets say theres a monkey society where monkey novels and narratives are enjoyed by monkey civilians and monkey royalty...
sounds kinda human
What is "beneficial" genetics though if not chance. I mean isn't it "beneficial" for stars to form. Matter does what matter does no? Aren't we just matter affecting other matter and responding to what outside matter does? IN that regards isn't all change evolution?
I think the theory usues monkeys to represent "chance" i like the Borges library of babel version much better.
In a nutshell you have an infinite library with infinite books of 500 pages, on those 500 pages are, in random order, the 26 letters of the alphabet with minimal punctuation.
Given that the library is infinitely large it would contain (albiet in various volumes) the complete works of the Shakespeare, the past, the future, and and an immense over abundance of fukkery and nonsense.
there's a lot of ways to look at the infinite
this is one of my favorites:
That is an important point since we're talking about space-time here and not just "numbers".
Makes you wonder what the "shape" of the universe is. shyt is so
Brown_Pride
All Star
I think he would say he don't know for sure but evidence points too...
That is an important point since we're talking about space-time here and not just "numbers".
Makes you wonder what the "shape" of the universe is. shyt is so
some say it's a 4 dimensional torus
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnURElCzGc0[/ame]
Prodigital
All Star
Nail on the head of what i was trying to get at (in the bold)so you're saying it's like two parallel lines. You can give them forever to go but it doesn't mean they will ever intersect.
What is "beneficial" genetics though if not chance. I mean isn't it "beneficial" for stars to form. Matter does what matter does no? Aren't we just matter affecting other matter and responding to what outside matter does? IN that regards isn't all change evolution?
I think the theory usues monkeys to represent "chance" i like the Borges library of babel version much better.
In a nutshell you have an infinite library with infinite books of 500 pages, on those 500 pages are, in random order, the 26 letters of the alphabet with minimal punctuation.
Given that the library is infinitely large it would contain (albiet in various volumes) the complete works of the Shakespeare, the past, the future, and and an immense over abundance of fukkery and nonsense.
Even in evolution and genetics there's layering, building upon the foundation of the last change. In the case of monkeys typing, there's no foundation to randomly build up to shakespeare so it won't converge to that at any amount of time.
I'm not too familiar with the library version of this analogy, but my thoughts kind of diverge. Monkeys would have no conscious motive to jamming keys or a predisposed bias to create anything such as shakespeare, as opposed to infinitely typing essays about their love for bananas and nothing else.
But an infinite library of finite possible letters would have to converge to shakespeare at some point, where the monkeys them selves would break the finite'ness of what they can create by themselves being a none random entity... So in that case, yeah.
I think the two cases are fundamentally different tho. Living beings don't operate on the same randomness of inanimate objects, such as particles, stars, and other massive objects in the universe.... or in this case random letters.