Does Learning To Code Outweigh a Degree In Computer Science?

[yseJ]

learning to code is like learning to play poker.
anyone can learn how to code. learning how to code WELL, takes years, and without experience that wont come to you. you certainly wont learn enough about coding just by doing a 4 year program in college. all you'll learn is basics blocks. its up to you to make these blocks into buildings, cities and then universe

self-taught cats do well because they been coding from their youth. a lot of older cats in software engineering are brilliant because in their youth they didnt have google to guide them to answers, they had to explore and have nonconventional ways of doing things instead of just going to stack overflow and grabbing first answer that suits their problem

in engineering, its all about what you do. a degree from a good college will put you in a position to make a bit more money to start off and give you a head start with your first job (as well as more, better connections), but after that, no one cares what your diploma is, its all about how you do your work.

once you have 1-2 jobs, its all about your experience and hand-on knowledge

the only thing most jobs will ask for a cs degree from any college. but real experience in reputable places can trump that. problem is getting a job without a degree in reputable places in the first place, lol

 

[yseJ]

also, if you REALLY dont like math, theres really no point in doing programming.
programming is essentially applied math and logic, both on high and low level. its all about problem solving. you wont get by simply memorizing what data structures to use when.

a good litmus test is recursion and stack. if you cant fully understand those concepts after 1-2 basic courses, its prolly best to pursue other professions.

also Im an old school guy myself, I always like to start at the most basic thing, so imo people who spend years doing high level programming without seeing how it works from C, assembly, transistor level are missing big parts of the picture that WILL come back and bite them in the ass

 

[Type Username Here]

also, if you REALLY dont like math, theres really no point in doing programming.
programming is essentially applied math and logic, both on high and low level. its all about problem solving. you wont get by simply memorizing what data structures to use when.

Yea, but this is becoming less and less so. With all the APIs out there, guides, stackoverflow, and "dummy" programming, there are jobs and projects where it is essentially just a new-wave data entry job. Plug and play coding.

That's the point of what I was saying in this thread earlier. A computer science or computer/software engineer have plenty of jobs that require more theory (or just as much theory) as just mindless programming. You have to want it though. The interviews are absolutely grueling.

 

[yseJ]

Yea, but this is becoming less and less so. With all the APIs out there, guides, stackoverflow, and "dummy" programming, there are jobs and projects where it is essentially just a new-wave data entry job. Plug and play coding.

That's the point of what I was saying in this thread earlier. A computer science or computer/software engineer have plenty of jobs that require more theory (or just as much theory) as just mindless programming. You have to want it though. The interviews are absolutely grueling.

a monkey can do data entry jobs. in act, these jobs are actually getting pushed out due to automation of everything.

so I kinda disagree.

programming at its core isnt a 'plug and play' thing. you cant do the same type problems in the book based on similarity. it will test your creativity and adaptation to constraints and requirements.

I guess if youre talking about pure entry-level job to pay the bills like a qa tester type of job, you can get by with just examples

I guess what Im trying to say, writing your own function in C that does basic string operations, to me is more rewarding than just piping output of an api method into another api call
because when you dont have a simple api to do something for you, you can just write it yourself.

at the beginning, it can look like youre re-inventing the wheel for no reason, but its worth it at the end.

 

[Type Username Here]

a monkey can do data entry jobs. in act, these jobs are actually getting pushed out due to automation of everything.

so I kinda disagree.

programming at its core isnt a 'plug and play' thing. you cant do the same type problems in the book based on similarity. it will test your creativity and adaptation to constraints and requirements.

I guess if youre talking about pure entry-level job to pay the bills like a qa tester type of job, you can get by with just examples

That's exactly what I am talking about. Not all programmers are there to solve problems. Sometimes they are there to put in simple code and test. It's not all developing algorithms and determining timing complexity, which is exactly what the article refers to.

I guess what Im trying to say, writing your own function in C that does basic string operations, to me is more rewarding than just piping output of an api method into another api call
because when you dont have a simple api to do something for you, you can just write it yourself.

at the beginning, it can look like youre re-inventing the wheel for no reason, but its worth it at the end.

Trust me, I've done coding at all levels. From machine code, to assembly, to C and on. I definitely appreciated learning to write things from the bottom up. It's just not necessary sometimes. It's beneficial to learn to code your own dynamic arrays, queues or stacks, but it's not necessary for most applications and modern day usage in a lot of fields.

 

[Midrash]

This is how most degrees are nowadays tbh.

A lot of people find this out the first job in their field they have after college. My roommate was complaining that they retaught him everything over from scratch for two weeks when he got his first job after graduation and he thought it was boring and continued to complained about how very little of what he learned in school was actually applied.

 

[rapbeats]

I don't know why place so much emphasis on a degree. I Don't think that we even need a college system, we just need a personality test, an intelligence test, and a generally industry specific exam (cert). I think using college to identify good employees is a waste of time.

I would only hire extroverted, conscientious, leader types, who had a minimum level of intelligence and a minimum level of industry specific knowledge.

At my job, we teach nearly everything to the newbies. and I can size up whether someone is going to be a good worker within moments of meeting them. To be honest, GPA really doesn't seem to correlate with a good employee or high performing employing.


Honestly, I feel that there are people who are born to be winners. These people do what it takes to get the job done. Going to college doesn't seem to make people into goal driven superstars.

And in a professional environment everyone went to college, but I can tell you for sure, that not everyone is at the same intelligence level. Some people learn really fast and don't need a lot of coaching, while others seem to not every get anything and end up having to have me treat them like little kids.

At my job, I feel like I want to fire 80-90% of all the people that are working there.

the truth is this. you know how they always have those stats that say "with a college degree your earning power is...." without one your earning power is....

what they are leaving out is this. The same type of person that will get accepted into a college, go to college, and then actually graduate from college is an ELITE person already. didnt say said person has elite intelligence. but they have something. all 3 of those people i just named are elite. the guy being accepted is elite. assuming it wasnt on some kind of sports scholly.the guy going even if he doesnt finish is still ELITE in comparison to the rest.

Its not that college makes you worlds smarter. its that those people that would go to college are already elite.

elite people usually earn more money. thats what the stats should show.

 

[TRUEST]

no its not saying that at all. its saying we need better teachers/professors that can bridge those gaps for you to some degree. now i'm not saying bridge all gaps all the time. i'm saying introduce a breh to some gap bridgers.
lets make it simple.

fractions = algebra = chem

you learn first in fractions (what you do to the denominator you have to do to the numerator).

that same rule applies to algebra. if you're trying to solve an equation. "Whatever you do to one side, you must do the other!"

Thats the same as balancing equations in chem. its the same principles.

Probability and statistics
Probability became of major importance in physics when quantum mechanics entered the scene. A course on probability begins by studying coin flips, and the counting of distinguishable vs. indistinguishable objects. The concepts of mean and variance are developed and applied in the cases of Poisson and Gaussian statistics.

Do you realize how many non math/science majors duck and dodge math and have to take statistics but have no idea how it can link up with physics. This is what a great professor/teacher can teach you. he/she can bridge that gap. just by saying the above statement. and showing you an example or two. That alone would stop people/kids from running from math in general if they knew how it works for other things. perhaps they would also stop running from the sciences.

Logic outside of computing is the same inside of computing.

everything is True or False
its all binary = 1 or 0
on or off

its cause and effect

if you do this , then this happens.

sounds like basic programming to me. if then statements.

But most people dont know this.

no. see this is what people dont get. the only gap that should be bridged is how what you're being taught in class can be used in a real world scenario. that will help a lot of students. but then again, schools aren't in the business of educating. they're there to make money for themselves.

 

[Robbie3000]

the truth is this. you know how they always have those stats that say "with a college degree your earning power is...." without one your earning power is....

what they are leaving out is this. The same type of person that will get accepted into a college, go to college, and then actually graduate from college is an ELITE person already. didnt say said person has elite intelligence. but they have something. all 3 of those people i just named are elite. the guy being accepted is elite. assuming it wasnt on some kind of sports scholly.the guy going even if he doesnt finish is still ELITE in comparison to the rest.

Its not that college makes you worlds smarter. its that those people that would go to college are already elite.

elite people usually earn more money. thats what the stats should show.

Not even remotely true. Lots of average people in college.

 

[Chris.B]

Also one point most people are missing...some people who teach themselves how to program live this stuff.
They actually enjoy doing it and don't see it as a job. it's a well known secret in the business

 

[Kritic]

Why did Minecraft creator Markus "Notch" Persson sell Mojang to Microsoft for $2.5 billion -- and why is he departing the studio he founded? Notch's explanation, as usual, is brutally honest.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2683...rewell-letter-to-minecraft-fans.html#tk.fb_pc

I don’t want to be a symbol, responsible for something huge that I don’t understand, that I don’t want to work on, that keeps coming back to me. I’m not an entrepreneur. I’m not a CEO. I’m a nerdy computer programmer who likes to have opinions on Twitter.

he just wants to be a regular dude trolling on the internets

 

[rapbeats]

Not even remotely true. Lots of average people in college.

no they are not average joes. you're not average when you get accepted into college you sure as heck aint average when you go to college. and we know you're elite when you graduate. you do realize what average means right? you do know they have stats to prove this very point right? i'm not saying these people are super smart. no no no. i'm saying they are still above average for whatever reason. someone could've put them up on game as a child and they figured out how to maneuver. it doesnt mean they are smarter then a smart guy that went to tech school and got a cert or some guy that got a license to be a carpenter. even those guys/chicks are above average.

if you're in college(especially a 4 year uni). the very fact that you know there's more to life then the block you grew up on makes you at minimum slightly above average. a person's outlook on life can drastically change once he's taken out of the place he has been in all of his life. it can open up his mind. therefore introducing him/her to options they never even thought about.

 

[Type Username Here]

Why did Minecraft creator Markus "Notch" Persson sell Mojang to Microsoft for $2.5 billion -- and why is he departing the studio he founded? Notch's explanation, as usual, is brutally honest.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2683...rewell-letter-to-minecraft-fans.html#tk.fb_pc




he just wants to be a regular dude trolling on the internets

He just made a billion dollars or more. He can do whatever the fukk he wants.

 

[rapbeats]

no. see this is what people dont get. the only gap that should be bridged is how what you're being taught in class can be used in a real world scenario. that will help a lot of students. but then again, schools aren't in the business of educating. they're there to make money for themselves.

what do you think my post was talking about? sure it showed bridging between different disciplines but by showing HOW its being bridged you will end up showing REAL world applications.

 

[Kritic]

He just made a billion dollars or more. He can do whatever the fukk he wants.

i used the post as an example to show learning raw code outweighs a cs degree.