Does the South's reign in rap have more to do with the culture of the USA than the culture of NY?

[ogc163]

The mixtape era and the influence of battle rap played a great part in the situation NYC finds itself in. People like to blame the mid 90's "boom bap" era as providing the "flawed" structure, but no it was the late 90's/early 2000's that set in place a lot of bad habits. You see it in NY and Philly rappers heavily. The inability to construct hooks and focus on melody has been a huge problem for NYC/Philly rappers and you can't look to the mid 90's as the culprits in terms of influence, Prodigy in his prime was one of the most amazing hook creators in the history of hip-hop. Take a look at the influential street cats that came in the late 90's (L.O.X., State Property, Dipset) their hook game was not on the same level of say Mobb Deep, Method Man, Boot Camp, Lost Boys, B.I.G. Instead more responsibility was placed on producers to create the melody/hook that would make a song blow up, and they couldn't take on the weight and make up for melody deficient rappers.

This is one of the reasons A$AP blew up of that first mixtape, Clams and A$AP Ty weren't burdened with having to figure out how to make the hook "pop" Rocky was great and most importantly comfortable at doing it. When I look at the new generation of NY MC's their hooks are not memorable and they are clearly uncomfortable when they having to do the heavy lifting. The other regions young cats are comfortable with melody because they weren't as influenced by the shytty habits prevalent in battle rap and mixtape scene.

An example of forced/uncomfortable hooks from modern NYC MC's--




VS.

 

[DirtyHarryPurtyLarry]

Most black people in the North and in this case, NY were most likely of Southern origin before the more recent reverse migrations. There were/are Northern Aframs w/o any Southern roots but they were most likely outnumbered by ones with Southern roots even before what people call the first Great Migration (1910–1930).

Do me a favor, please.
Go look up the census of African Americans and "Mulattos" in NYC before that migration and compare it to the number of what came into Harlem and other certain areas of the 5 boroughs.
Why would the majority of slaves leave an area that was the hub of America and prospering?
You are under estimating how many African Americans were in the 5 boroughs to begin with.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Do me a favor, please.
Go look up the census of African Americans and "Mulattos" in NYC before that migration and compare it to the number of what came into Harlem and other certain areas of the 5 boroughs.
Why would the majority of slaves leave an area that was the hub of America and prospering?
You are under estimating how many African Americans were in the 5 boroughs to begin with.

They went North as freed black/freed slaves/fugitive slaves to get away from Jim Crow South.

Throughout the 19th-century, the vast majority of African Americans lived in the South, first as slaves, then as freedpeople. The black population in the North was small, although an exodus from the South beginning in the late 1870s began gradually to change that. In 1860, about 12,500 African Americans lived in New York City; even by 1900 they constituted less than two percent of the city’s entire population.

HarpWeek: Cartoon of the Day

also

The Black North: A Social Study

November 17, 1901

To-day there are many contrasts between Northern and Southern negroes. Three-fourths of the Southern negroes live in the country districts. Nine-tenths of the Northern negroes live in cities and towns. The Southern negro were in nearly all cases born South and of slave parentage.

About a third of the Northern negroes were born North, partly of free negro parentage, while the rest are Southern immigrants. .

The Black North: A Social Study

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Black Americans outnumber Caribbeans in New York what are you talking about???. Caribbeans don't even make up most of New York they're just gathered in specific areas. Most Blacks up here are only two generations removed from the South and most of them come from the Carolinas.

Aframs even with the more recent reverse migration prob edge out West Indians in total population in NYC but if throw in Africans, there are probably more foreign blacks in NY than Aframs.

 

[Hood Critic]

The internet changed all music especially hip-hop/rap.

The explosion of media outlets and content made the concept of "regions" obsolete. Now you could be anywhere in the country/world and get a detailed glimpse of life, slang and what's hot in any region or city. NY hip-hop became less popular at this point because it's overshadowed by everywhere else in the country. Because of it's status and hip-hop's roots being in the region it helped influence people into the thought that it was the upper echelon of content. When people got a chance to consume content from everywhere else easily it changed that notion.

The south's rap roots are filled with hustlers who got rich (J Prince, Tony Draper, Master P, Baby & Slim) so that's exactly how everybody who came behind them moved. Very much how Tri-State artists moved the same as their forbearers. People outside of high income cities and areas could relate a lot more to the "down to earth" style and content of rappers from everywhere else.

The rest is just history

 

[Harry B]

1. This southern reign, where is it? It's 2016 now.
2. The south is about 50 % of the US population, NY about 2-3 % and I can't even guess the souths share of the us black population.
3. NY might have the most black people of any state.

The biggest rappers in the game completely off the top, that can sell out bigger shows or do closer to 100k first week
Future, Jay-z, Kanye, Eminem, Drake, K dot, J. Cole, Nicki Minaj, Fetty Wap, Logic, Bad Ass, Wiz Kifa, Big Sean, Kevin Gates, Ross, Mack Miller, Fabouolous Macklemore, Asap Rocky, Boosie, Jeezy, Hopsin, Childish Gambino, Nas, Dr. Dre, Meek Mill, T.I, Wale, Chance the rapper, YG, Young Thug, Lil Wayne, Kid Ink, Rae Sremmurd, Schoolboy Q.

I can't see any region, seems pretty diverse.
Super quick count 10 from the south, 12 from the East, 4 mid west, 7 west and 1 international.

The south has been better at producing 1 hit wonders and just cats putting out random hits due to the fact that they had all the great innovators in club music. It's hard to make it to the charts without shyt that bangs in the club or pre/after-party anthems etc. NY (NJ) the home of the bootleggers have been working though, Fetty and Desiigner are already becoming the biggest (American) hitmakers.

 

[QuavoFlow]

No. South took over hip hop cuz NY fell off due to beef and crab in a barrel ass nikkas, and west coast nikkas were still tryna replicate The Chronic and Doggystyle, while possessing nowhere near the talent of Dre and Snoop so the music was trash in return.

this is actually a great post

 

[IllmaticDelta]

He's another dumb jamaican who was fed false history by his parents.

It's just people in denial of the southern roots of hiphop...painting NYC as less Afram is a backdoor way of trying to "Westindianfy" the roots/origin of HipHop

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/stop-calling-my-culture-hip-hop.389541/page-10

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/stop-calling-my-culture-hip-hop.389541/page-10#post-17138023

 

[Yehuda]

painting NYC as less Afram is a backdoor way of trying to "Westindianfy" the roots/origin of HipHop

Lol I remember watching some interview with ex members of the Black Spades, they were saying KRS-One is full of shyt he doesn't know what he talks about and only reason he goes around saying Kool Herc Grandmaster Flash and Afrika Bambaataa are the originators is cause they're all West Indian and he wants to glorify their role in Hip-Hop.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Lol I remember watching some interview with ex members of the Black Spades, they were saying KRS-One is full of shyt he doesn't know what he talks about and only reason he goes around saying Kool Herc Grandmaster Flash and Afrika Bambaataa are the originators is cause they're all West Indian and he wants to glorify their role in Hip-Hop.

LOL...I saw that too. I don't think KRS is thinking that way but there is an attempt by outsiders who have partial/incorrect history of HipHop and the full spectrum of Afram history before HipHop, to over West Indian-Jamaicanize the roots of HipHop because of Kool Herc's origin even though he himself has never attempted to do so.

 

[Stuntone]

New York City just isn't admired to the rest of the country like it was in the 90s. They had a lot of diverse, unique talented artist that you had to respect and listen to. They pretty much told us how NYC was and the culture, it was fascinating. The terms and slang. Dudes like me didn't know what a bodega was. NYC seemed like a different world to us. NYC use to get all of the latest fashions first, set all the trends. Not anymore, they're followers now. The culture in NYC has changed and it's not as interesting. How can a new artist from NYC make NYC culture seem more interesting than Nas did? Than Prodigy did? DMX, Hov, the Lox, AZ, Fab? Dipset? Maybe NYC had too much diverse talent back then. Maybe they gave all NYC had to offer?

New Orleans is the same way on a smaller scale. The city just isn't what it was before Katrina. That feel is gone. No way in hell can another artist expose you to New Orleans the way B.G did. You can never create that feeling of when 400 Degreez dropped. The culture down here has change.

America as a whole was way different in the 90s and before the internet blow up. Back then you wanted to know a lot more about your favorite artist background. Now, I could care less about where Ross is from. I don't care to know what Miami is like. I just want good music. But back in the 90s. I want to see what Nas and Big was rapping about. I had to read their articles in Source, Vibe and XXL. You wanted to know what shoes and gear they was rocking.


Music was waaayyy more concentrated than. Now someone has added too much water in this game.

 

[NvrCMyNut]

The mixtape era and the influence of battle rap played a great part in the situation NYC finds itself in. People like to blame the mid 90's "boom bap" era as providing the "flawed" structure, but no it was the late 90's/early 2000's that set in place a lot of bad habits. You see it in NY and Philly rappers heavily. The inability to construct hooks and focus on melody has been a huge problem for NYC/Philly rappers and you can't look to the mid 90's as the culprits in terms of influence, Prodigy in his prime was one of the most amazing hook creators in the history of hip-hop. Take a look at the influential street cats that came in the late 90's (L.O.X., State Property, Dipset) their hook game was not on the same level of say Mobb Deep, Method Man, Boot Camp, Lost Boys, B.I.G. Instead more responsibility was placed on producers to create the melody/hook that would make a song blow up, and they couldn't take on the weight and make up for melody deficient rappers.

This is one of the reasons A$AP blew up of that first mixtape, Clams and A$AP Ty weren't burdened with having to figure out how to make the hook "pop" Rocky was great and most importantly comfortable at doing it. When I look at the new generation of NY MC's their hooks are not memorable and they are clearly uncomfortable when they having to do the heavy lifting. The other regions young cats are comfortable with melody because they weren't as influenced by the shytty habits prevalent in battle rap and mixtape scene.

An example of forced/uncomfortable hooks from modern NYC MC's--




VS.

This also. The best most accurate points always get the least daps/looked on this site.

 

[NvrCMyNut]

New York City just isn't admired to the rest of the country like it was in the 90s. They had a lot of diverse, unique talented artist that you had to respect and listen to. They pretty much told us how NYC was and the culture, it was fascinating. The terms and slang. Dudes like me didn't know what a bodega was. NYC seemed like a different world to us. NYC use to get all of the latest fashions first, set all the trends. Not anymore, they're followers now. The culture in NYC has changed and it's not as interesting. How can a new artist from NYC make NYC culture seem more interesting than Nas did? Than Prodigy did? DMX, Hov, the Lox, AZ, Fab? Dipset? Maybe NYC had too much diverse talent back then. Maybe they gave all NYC had to offer?

New Orleans is the same way on a smaller scale. The city just isn't what it was before Katrina. That feel is gone. No way in hell can another artist expose you to New Orleans the way B.G did. You can never create that feeling of when 400 Degreez dropped. The culture down here has change.

America as a whole was way different in the 90s and before the internet blow up. Back then you wanted to know a lot more about your favorite artist background. Now, I could care less about where Ross is from. I don't care to know what Miami is like. I just want good music. But back in the 90s. I want to see what Nas and Big was rapping about. I had to read their articles in Source, Vibe and XXL. You wanted to know what shoes and gear they was rocking.


Music was waaayyy more concentrated than. Now someone has added too much water in this game.

Disagree on the fashion tip. NYC take makers are huge in the twitter/tumblr world which manifests it self in real life. There's a reason Kanye keeps them around.

 

[Stuntone]

Disagree on the fashion tip. NYC take makers are huge in the twitter/tumblr world which manifests it self in real life. There's a reason Kanye keeps them around.

Not in Hiphop. NYC is not the trendsetters anymore. I would say Lil Wayne, Young Thug and Future have had more influence in urban fashion in the past 10-15 years.

Anyone can go online and see what's hot. No one wants on NYC to see.

 

[Shadow King]

NYC metropolitan area is 20 million people or so.

South is like 140 million. That contributes to a lot of it really