doggystyle is better than illmatic

[Budda]

Nikkas talking about Illmatic like its Nastradamous or something

It’s the contrarians because Illmatic is perceived as probably the most critically acclaimed Rap album of all time its only natural you’ll get haters who try go against it. Doggystyle is one of the 10 rap albums of all time also so isn’t a crazy claim to say is better, although they’re completely different..

You have to also remember you’ve got a lot more hipster/pretentious folk who like to slight 90’s ny rap as some type infantile production wise or sonically compared to Doggystyle and other funk Influenced albums, yet what Dre was doing on that album wasn’t much better or vastly to different or skilled to what Premier Q Tip and Pete Rock were doing on Illmatic, it’s just one is more Jazzy and the other is more Funky.

 

[Budda]

Both classics. Better production on Doggy Style, but Illmatic has easily stood the test of time content and lyric wise.

I wouldn’t even say better production, why is it better produced cause the producer samples George Clinton instead of Ahmad Jahmal?

 

[mobbinfms]

Because I got ears

You were 11. You weren’t with people in high school/college. It was 94. We didn’t have the ability to listen to everything whenever we wanted. You didn’t know Illmatic to even realize if you were hearing it when you were outside. It just would have been another song you’d never heard before.

 

[Robbie3000]

I wouldn’t even say better production, why is it better produced cause the producer samples George Clinton instead of Ahmad Jahmal?

Yeah. Doggy Style and West Coast albums sounded better in the car. We love bass in the South.

 

[Michael's Black Son]

I wouldn’t even say better production, why is it better produced cause the producer samples George Clinton instead of Ahmad Jahmal?

- superior production and mixing (the shyt still sounds amazing to this day and just imagine it on CD)

- the track sequence provides for great pacing right up to the end

- dope singles for the radio crowd and deep ass album cuts that you could ride and party too (Ain’t No Fun)

- the features delivered even tho all the features (aside from Dre) were rookies like Rage and Tha Dogg Pound. Nate Dogg killed his feature and his follow up (Regulate) proved that he was dependable

- Lyrically, Snoop hit it out the park and has a little something for everyone + showed that he could play with concepts (Murder Was The Case)

- the samples were a case of right place, right time and having a competent producer (Dre) made the shyt a sonic masterpiece. Today you get chopped, muddy and lazy 90s R&B samples with the same dirty ass drums on top.

- people were simply excited about what was coming next out of Death Row. The Chronic was the turning point and Doggystyle was a follow up that ticked all the boxes + made a star out of Snoop that was the next thing in the beginning of the second golden age that no one knew they wanted/needed.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

RUN DMC, Beastie Boys, LL, etc. were going plat and multi-plat years before anyone knew who BIG was.

The idea that BIG "saved" the east because they weren't selling is and was largely cooked up after he died. As part of the myth surrounding him.

I get it, but "Ready To Die" only went 2x plat while he was alive. NY acts were doing that, and more before, during and after BIG.

Fred.

Yea it’s hilarious when people say this. Whodini was going plat before all of them. Not to mention PE was doing huge numbers as well. People forget who it was that inspired the rest of the country to rhyme in the first place

 

[BmoreGorilla]

As far as the thread, if people are talking about quality you can't go wrong with either album.

If people are talking about sales this is a ridiculous comparison, because ("Live At The BBQ" aside) Nas was a completely new artist.

By the time "Doggystyle" dropped, Snoop had been Dre's protegé for a couple years, appeared on "The Chronic", etc.

Nas didn't have a Dre level co-sign out the gate so of course he didn't do similar numbers.

Without Dre, Snoop wouldn't have either.

Fred.

Yup Nas basically came outta nowhere and had nowhere near the marketing push that Snoop received. Which is understandable becuz Snoop had damn near become a household name before his debut even dropped. There was no debut album that had that level of anticipation till Get Rich Or Die Trying

 

[hex]

Yup Nas basically came outta nowhere and had nowhere near the marketing push that Snoop received. Which is understandable becuz Snoop had damn near become a household name before his debut even dropped. There was no debut album that had that level of anticipation till Get Rich Or Die Trying

What's funny is a few years back somebody made a thread asking what's an album that had comparable hype to "GRODT", and I said "Doggystyle".

Rap fans knew who Nas was but Snoop was on the cover of Newsweek the same week his album came out:

It's apples and oranges.

Fred.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

I wouldn’t even say better production, why is it better produced cause the producer samples George Clinton instead of Ahmad Jahmal?

Becuz it sounds better. And i actually prefer Illmatic. But Doggystyle was Dre at his peak. The production on that album is crazy. One of the best produced albums ever

 

[Michael's Black Son]

RUN DMC, Beastie Boys, LL, etc. were going plat and multi-plat years before anyone knew who BIG was.

The idea that BIG "saved" the east because they weren't selling is and was largely cooked up after he died. As part of the myth surrounding him.

I get it, but "Ready To Die" only went 2x plat while he was alive. NY acts were doing that, and more before, during and after BIG.

Fred.

exactly.

these acts had already been touring like crazy, selling millions, on MTV and pulling in substantial income for their respective labels.

I love BIG but the game would’ve been fine without him or him just being marginal. There was already a ton of talent in the pipeline and New York “urban” music was stronger than ever on the hip hop and R&B front.

The early/mid 90s felt like an all star game of music because there was just so much content along with house music booming + New Jack Swing peaking.

NYC didn’t need any saving. And one would argue that the industry ate so much off of sales with those inflated CD prices, while LPs and cassettes sold side by side with no issue. Can only imagine the kind of $ that was coming in hand over fist from physical sales

 

[BmoreGorilla]

What's funny is a few years back somebody made a thread asking what's an album that had comparable hype to "GRODT", and I said "Doggystyle".

Rap fans knew who Nas was but Snoop was on the cover of Newsweek the same week his album came out:

It's apples and oranges.

Fred.

People forget just how big Snoop was at that point. And this was before he even really showed his personality. He was still everywhere in 94. There were a ton of factors that made this happen tho. Factors that Nas didn’t have

 

[Michael's Black Son]

What's funny is a few years back somebody made a thread asking what's an album that had comparable hype to "GRODT", and I said "Doggystyle".

Rap fans knew who Nas was but Snoop was on the cover of Newsweek the same week his album came out:

It's apples and oranges.

Fred.

yup.

like I said in an earlier post, Snoop was the superstar you didn’t know you needed. But there he was.

That whole Death Row roster (aside from Dre) was basically on even footing pre-Doggystyle and Snoop proved his worth. And this is on the strength of Deep Cover and what he did on the Chronic.

There was no features on a Janet Jackson song or an EP with 4-5 songs and no House Party type movie with him in is rapping and dancing. He was a perceivable gamble that paid off EXCEPT for the fact that Jimmy/Dre/Suge knew they had the best formula on the table.

Peak Dre with something to prove outside of Ruthless along with an emcee with a voice/flow/style that no one saw coming. Throw some marketing at it + the dog concept/art direction and you are entering the pop music space where a rap artist gets a proper album roll out.

 

[Mike the Executioner]

Nikkas talking about Illmatic like its Nastradamous or something

.
It's a new way to shyt on Nas. For years, the narrative was "Illmatic is the only great album Nas ever made." Now, it's "Illmatic was never that good anyway." I see it and I'm not into it at all.

 

[Peak]

Yeah. Can't disagree

 

[BmoreGorilla]

yup.

like I said in an earlier post, Snoop was the superstar you didn’t know you needed. But there he was.

That whole Death Row roster (aside from Dre) was basically on even footing pre-Doggystyle and Snoop proved his worth. And this is on the strength of Deep Cover and what he did on the Chronic.

There was no features on a Janet Jackson song or an EP with 4-5 songs and no House Party type movie with him in is rapping and dancing. He was a perceivable gamble that paid off EXCEPT for the fact that Jimmy/Dre/Suge knew they had the best formula on the table.

Peak Dre with something to prove outside of Ruthless along with an emcee with a voice/flow/style that no one saw coming. Throw some marketing at it + the dog concept/art direction and you are entering the pop music space where a rap artist gets a proper album roll out.

Snoop had everything in his favor. There fact that nobody sounded like him and he was he’d already appeared on a classic soundtrack single and classic album. Matter fact the Chronic was the first gangsta rap album to crossover to all corners of America. But he also benefited from the spotlight being heavy on LA at the time with everybody’s fascination with gangsta rap, the movies, the riots. All that shyt added up. shyt got even bigger after he appeared on SNL and had the murder trial. So not only was he a gangsta rapper it looked like he lived his rhymes. Snoop couldn’t lose