Double Talk Dave didn't like the WWE Hype Of Lesnar on Raw

[R=G]

Again, kayfabe wise he has the most title wins of all time, most PPV main events of all time, defeated every star of his generation, plus top (including THE top) stars from the previous generation. From a business stand point, he's been in charge of WWE's most profitable year ever (2006, I believe), and has sold more merch than any top guy ever. He's literally made WWE more money than anyone ever. With a longer time on top than any top guy ever. Keeping the company afloat in the wake of dudes dying and killing their families, multiple recessions, and wars. Being the most popular Make a Wish dude of all time.

The Bruno/Backlund/Hogan/Macho days had dudes wrestling far less on TV/PPV, which means far fewer title defenses and matches in general. Cena up until the last 2 years or so wrestled more on TV/PPV in a year than Hogan did the entire Hulkamania run. Bruno had about 800 matches for his entire WWF career, including his part time role in the mid-late 80s. Cena has double that just from the time he first became champion. Dude has been an insane asset to WWE and it is pretty hard to argue that he isn't the legit GOAT champ of all time for them.

Consider that they were calling Austin the greatest champion in company history in 1998. During his first reign. And basically every promotion ever has done similar things when hyping their current type guy. In this case, Cena really probably is the GOAT for WWE. WWE's Mt. Rushmore would be Cena, Rock, Hogan, Austin built on a foundation of Bruno.

I don't want to hear that "ur just a dumb kid shyt" when you're being willfully ignorant of history, context, and the changing of the business with the advent of weekly TV and monthly PPVs. Bret, Savage, and Flair aren't even in the running from a numbers stand point. Flair especially was NOT a draw for WWE at all.

Nobody cares about most title wins except Cripple H, Flair, and Cena. That's about it. It never got anyone over...being great gets you over historically. Jake the Snake Roberts was never champion and had more character and presence than Cena ever did.

The real icons wrestled far less because they actually drew and built up their appearances to matter. These days Cena showing up after another injury time out is worthless. It means nothing. He has no iconic promos, nothing that was really big until the Rock match which was of course all about the Rock returning, and proving how inferior this era was.

Nobody cares about how many times Cena wrestles a year because he's not selling anything out all the time and he's not breaking records. He's not getting ratings up..he's not getting buys up. He's a pushed star who they let hold the belt a lot during a certain time frame. They did the same thing for Edge and Cripple H. They just don't measure up to real company carriers like Savage, Hogan, Rocky, Austin, and Goldberg.

Who cares about Flair in WWE...Flair is one of the greatest Down South Draws ever. Legitimately. Not by fluff like with Cena.

 

[stro]

.

Nobody cares about most title wins
Except in kayfabe, where wrestling is a pro sport, and John Cena is the most winningest champion in the biggest company in history. That alone is more than enough for WWE to say Cena is the greatest WWE Champion of all time on their programming, which is in kayfabe. Obviously they don't really mean anything, because none of it means anything since it is fake.


Who cares about Flair in WWE...Flair is one of the greatest Down South Draws ever. Legitimately.
Well, Flair was brought up as a great WWE champion. Which he was not. He was a 2 time champ in a year and his feuds were very disappointing from a money point of view and Vince was totally fine to let him go back to WCW because he has no value for WWE.

On TV, John Cena being called the GOAT WWE Champion is 1000% legit. Off TV, it's still pretty legit. Doesn't matter if you don't like his matches or promos or haven't liked his time on top. No one has done for the company what Cena has, on and off screen. John Cena has made more money for WWE than Austin, Rock, and Hogan. John Cena himself has made more money than Austin, Rock, and Hogan in WWE. That's GOAT.

 

[Djalminha]

Of course it was a good move, WWE realise that majority of audience won't have seen or even know anything about UFC, so they say he's the best combat athlete and these people will buy it.

Meltzer can  too many people act as if his word is Gospel

 

[R=G]

Nobody cares about most title wins
Except in kayfabe, where wrestling is a pro sport, and John Cena is the most winningest champion in the biggest company in history. That alone is more than enough for WWE to say Cena is the greatest WWE Champion of all time on their programming, which is in kayfabe. Obviously they don't really mean anything, because none of it means anything since it is fake.


Who cares about Flair in WWE...Flair is one of the greatest Down South Draws ever. Legitimately.
Well, Flair was brought up as a great WWE champion. Which he was not. He was a 2 time champ in a year and his feuds were very disappointing from a money point of view and Vince was totally fine to let him go back to WCW because he has no value for WWE.

On TV, John Cena being called the GOAT WWE Champion is 1000% legit. Off TV, it's still pretty legit. Doesn't matter if you don't like his matches or promos or haven't liked his time on top. No one has done for the company what Cena has, on and off screen. John Cena has made more money for WWE than Austin, Rock, and Hogan. John Cena himself has made more money than Austin, Rock, and Hogan in WWE. That's GOAT.

It's enough in your mind but he won a title from heeling on Mysterio one time after he wrestled the whole night. I mean..his title reigns aren't legit and if they were, he would be the most respected and over champion of all time. Not even close. It's just a hype tool to make him seem bigger than he really is. And of course it's failing as the numbers have proven since the end of his Rock 3 years ago.

Flair was brought up as an ALL TIME great champion and much more respected than John Cena.

He can't be the GOAT champion because he's not Bruno, Hogan, Austin, or Rock. And from the looks of it, never will be.

 

[stro]

It's enough in your mind but he won a title from heeling on Mysterio one time after he wrestled the whole night. I mean..his title reigns aren't legit and if they were, he would be the most respected and over champion of all time. Not even close. It's just a hype tool to make him seem bigger than he really is. And of course it's failing as the numbers have proven since the end of his Rock 3 years ago.

Flair was brought up as an ALL TIME great champion and much more respected than John Cena.

He can't be the GOAT champion because he's not Bruno, Hogan, Austin, or Rock. And from the looks of it, never will be.

Breh, no title wins are legit. This shyt is a work.

 

[Slystallion]

John Cena literally is the greatest WWE Champion, though. Kayfabe and IRL. He's had more reigns than anyone, and was on top on WWE's single most profitable year ever. He's also been the top guy for a decade straight, which is not only longer than Austin/Rock's time on top by a considerable margin, but longer than both combined. And longer than Hogan's. And Bruno's. Not only longer than Hogan's, but he averaged more TV/PPV matches per year than Hogan did his entire 1984-1993 run.

I like Cena...he busts his ass and gets unwarranted boos...but he is not on that Hogan Rock Austin level....he never was loved as a face

And compare by inflation sure on paper one of the Cena years probably looks more profitable but once inflation adjusted I highly doubt any of those years were as popular as golden or attitude era

 

[stro]

I like Cena...he busts his ass and gets unwarranted boos...but he is not on that Hogan Rock Austin level....he never was loved as a face

And compare by inflation sure on paper one of the Cena years probably looks more profitable but once inflation adjusted I highly doubt any of those years were as popular as golden or attitude era

It's not the inflation. It's his duration as a top guy. Cena merch alone is something insane like 20% of WWE's entire revenue.

 

[R=G]

That's not true. Just an excuse to justify his push. There are no concrete numbers on these merchandise sales.

 

[Spyro]

John Cena literally is the greatest WWE Champion, though. Kayfabe and IRL. He's had more reigns than anyone, and was on top on WWE's single most profitable year ever. He's also been the top guy for a decade straight, which is not only longer than Austin/Rock's time on top by a considerable margin, but longer than both combined. And longer than Hogan's. And Bruno's. Not only longer than Hogan's, but he averaged more TV/PPV matches per year than Hogan did his entire 1984-1993 run.

Yes but Rock/Austin were the face of the most popular era of wrestling ever, ratings and just general interest in pro wrestling was at an all time high. EVERYONE I knew watched WWE back then, it was massive.

Cena is the face of the PG Era, an era which is widely ridiculed and is often insulted on. An era where viewers continue to drop, drop and drop some more. An era where if you are caught with a wrestling shirt in public, people give you the face. An era where every other week I read "ratings drop to another all time low level". Cena is the face of all of this, and yes the show is terrible but Cena should get some of the blame. He has strong backstage power, he needs to turn heel like Hogan in 96. Seeing the guy do the same shyt for 11 years straight is boring, another 11, another 11? 33 years of Cena doing the gay salute and saying never give up, shyt's lame and stale. People say Reigns needs to turn heel but Cena does even more

Cena might be GOAT kayfabe, but not irl for me. That's the Rock easily

Matches were only as good as the person he was in there with. You have a strong point but its still debatable.

Its hard to compare to Hogan or Austin due to the move to bigger arenas and Cena being on top so long was more due to Vince not wanting to run into another new generation lull. Cena is fine but he never caused a boom period like Hogan or Austin. He just rode the wave already created until it died out.

Exactly. And wrestling is getting even more unpopular, ratings dropping, wrestling becoming more lame etc etc. And whether it's Cena or Reigns on top, the blame has to be blamed on them. The show sucks but people watch for the stars, people watched it back then to watch Austin/Rock, now if people watch for Cena/Reigns then that shows how popular they actually are

It's not the inflation. It's his duration as a top guy. Cena merch alone is something insane like 20% of WWE's entire revenue.

I'm sure I read that in one year (98?) that Austin's T shirt sales made up for around 50% of WWE's total revenue for that year

 

[Art Barr]

We already saw Dave aint want them problems last time he encountered Lesnar in the E

Motherfukker was shook as hell.Had his ass froze.

Missed large drawing mania match,......
That would have been more interesting anyway you booked it.
All because you easily could have had evolution interfere and make it interesting.
Plus provided lesnar feuds to the evolution guys that made sense.
Instead of the hhh authenicate your draw using lesnar matches we got predating this stare down.


Art Barr

 

[dh86]

Again, kayfabe wise he has the most title wins of all time, most PPV main events of all time, defeated every star of his generation, plus top (including THE top) stars from the previous generation. From a business stand point, he's been in charge of WWE's most profitable year ever (2006, I believe), and has sold more merch than any top guy ever. He's literally made WWE more money than anyone ever. With a longer time on top than any top guy ever. Keeping the company afloat in the wake of dudes dying and killing their families, multiple recessions, and wars. Being the most popular Make a Wish dude of all time.

The Bruno/Backlund/Hogan/Macho days had dudes wrestling far less on TV/PPV, which means far fewer title defenses and matches in general. Cena up until the last 2 years or so wrestled more on TV/PPV in a year than Hogan did the entire Hulkamania run. Bruno had about 800 matches for his entire WWF career, including his part time role in the mid-late 80s. Cena has double that just from the time he first became champion. Dude has been an insane asset to WWE and it is pretty hard to argue that he isn't the legit GOAT champ of all time for them.

Consider that they were calling Austin the greatest champion in company history in 1998. During his first reign. And basically every promotion ever has done similar things when hyping their current type guy. In this case, Cena really probably is the GOAT for WWE. WWE's Mt. Rushmore would be Cena, Rock, Hogan, Austin built on a foundation of Bruno.

I don't want to hear that "ur just a dumb kid shyt" when you're being willfully ignorant of history, context, and the changing of the business with the advent of weekly TV and monthly PPVs. Bret, Savage, and Flair aren't even in the running from a numbers stand point. Flair especially was NOT a draw for WWE at all.

In terms of marketing, when he wins #17, they can market him as the greatest of all time. It would be smart to market "see the greatest of all time wrestle while you still can". Doesnt mean it has any semblance in truth though. I remember when Joe DiMaggio was alive they called him the greatest player alive, and Hank Aaron is still alive today. WWE most profitable year was 2000, Cena never came close to Rock level in terms of ratings and arena sell outs in a year. John Cena represents a time where the name brand WWE sells more than its wrestlers. When I was growing up the name 'Hulk Hogan' was more well known than 'WWF'. Think this is the case today?

 

[dh86]

Nobody cares about most title wins
Except in kayfabe, where wrestling is a pro sport, and John Cena is the most winningest champion in the biggest company in history. That alone is more than enough for WWE to say Cena is the greatest WWE Champion of all time on their programming, which is in kayfabe. Obviously they don't really mean anything, because none of it means anything since it is fake.


Who cares about Flair in WWE...Flair is one of the greatest Down South Draws ever. Legitimately.
Well, Flair was brought up as a great WWE champion. Which he was not. He was a 2 time champ in a year and his feuds were very disappointing from a money point of view and Vince was totally fine to let him go back to WCW because he has no value for WWE.

On TV, John Cena being called the GOAT WWE Champion is 1000% legit. Off TV, it's still pretty legit. Doesn't matter if you don't like his matches or promos or haven't liked his time on top. No one has done for the company what Cena has, on and off screen. John Cena has made more money for WWE than Austin, Rock, and Hogan. John Cena himself has made more money than Austin, Rock, and Hogan in WWE. That's GOAT.

Then it would follow that HHH>Rock too after all huh? Given HHH "packed Cowboys Stadium"

 

[stro]

Then it would follow that HHH>Rock too after all huh? Given HHH "packed Cowboys Stadium"

In kayfabe? Yeah, maybe. I'm not going to get upset if WWE says it on TV, at least.