Dr Marcus Garvey Jr. The Arab Slave Trade

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Guess what


Islam has never been an organized institution, historically, whereas Christianity was

An*institution*is any*structure*or*mechanism*of social order*and*cooperation*governing the behaviour*of a set of*individuals*within a given community

 

[Broke Wave]

Organized institution... not an abstract one like "Democracy"... Islam is more like a way of life and governance like say Democracy or Facism etc, less of an organized group institution, like say Catholicism.

 

[Hip-Hop-Bulls]

the pre 1555 slave trade was not child's play, it was just as bad, that is the whole point of the video, anybody that tries to downplay islamic slavery is a liar or has gotten bamboozled

and christians and muslims are the same, that is the other point of the video

i dont see what atheists have to do with anything, atheism is a phenomena of the 20th century and they have very little political power

yes, for the most part christians and muslims are the same, no disagreeing there. only reason why I mentioned Atheists is because there's some on this board that does nothing but bash religion when they themselves are religious people who deal with belief.

Slavery in Africa cannot be compared to the trans atlantic. slavery in africa you still kept your name, could keep relationships, etc. All you had to do was work until your service was done. Similar to the kind of physical slavery we still have in the US. the trans Atlantic is the worst holocaust in human history. stripped of name, culture, god, customs, and countless lives lost, and our people are still feeling the effects of that.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Also lets not compare 1555 to any other form of slavery. It has no comparison. Yeah slavery existed long before 1555 but compared to the trans atlantic, those are like childs play. The worst crime you can do to a people is take the knowledge of self away from them, which black people all over the world, ESPECIALLY America still suffers greatly from.

@Blackking see? This is the type of bamboozled apologism I'm talking about that needs to be called out. Dude just called this "child's play."

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zM_MzkLKPY&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]

 

[theworldismine13]

yes, for the most part christians and muslims are the same, no disagreeing there. only reason why I mentioned Atheists is because there's some on this board that does nothing but bash religion when they themselves are religious people who deal with belief.

Slavery in Africa cannot be compared to the trans atlantic. slavery in africa you still kept your name, could keep relationships, etc. All you had to do was work until your service was done. Similar to the kind of physical slavery we still have in the US. the trans Atlantic is the worst holocaust in human history. stripped of name, culture, god, customs, and countless lives lost, and our people are still feeling the effects of that.

i didnt say slavery in africa, i said the arab slave trade, and the arab slave trade was just as bad, you are spreading a lie

 

[The Real]

yes, for the most part christians and muslims are the same, no disagreeing there. only reason why I mentioned Atheists is because there's some on this board that does nothing but bash religion when they themselves are religious people who deal with belief.

Slavery in Africa cannot be compared to the trans atlantic. slavery in africa you still kept your name, could keep relationships, etc. All you had to do was work until your service was done. Similar to the kind of physical slavery we still have in the US. the trans Atlantic is the worst holocaust in human history. stripped of name, culture, god, customs, and countless lives lost, and our people are still feeling the effects of that.

"Child's play?" This sounds like you're trying hard to downplay the Arab slave trade. Arabs were the OGs of anti-Black racism. They invented a large number of the stereotypes that would become part of European anti-Blackness a few centuries later, and are still part of modern white supremacist beliefs. Without the legacy of Arab racism, the European slave trade would not have been the same.

I'm not interested in the Islam discussion, but the Arab slave trade was brutal and disgusting. There's really no way around that.

 

[theworldismine13]

this is all child's play, dont pay it no mind

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Organized institution... not an abstract one like "Democracy"... Islam is more like a way of life and governance like say Democracy or Facism etc, less of an organized group institution, like say Catholicism.

If it informs and constitutes the basis for the legal system of state or territory, it essentially operates as an institution, even though it cannot be completely reduced to that.

Regardless of the semantics of the word institution, whatever you want to call it, Islam in practice hasn't historically been a benevolent force toward black people on a macro-level. I think that's twism's basic point.

A black individual choosing to be a Muslim or whatever other religion or lack thereof is a separate issue.

 

[theworldismine13]

Organized institution... not an abstract one like "Democracy"... Islam is more like a way of life and governance like say Democracy or Facism etc, less of an organized group institution, like say Catholicism.

List of Muslim empires and dynasties
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_empires_and_dynasties

its disgusting how black muslims try to spread lies

 

[Hip-Hop-Bulls]

This is why I said theres no comparison. Now everybody took what I said and spun it to make it seem like it wasn't bad. I took the L for not taking my own advice. The slavery in Africa cannot be compared to trans atlantic. The way people here in America live to the brothers and sisters in Africa will show all that needs to be said.

 

[Broke Wave]

If it informs and constitutes the basis for the legal system of state or territory, it essentially operates as an institution, even though it cannot be completely reduced to that.

Regardless of the semantics of the word institution, whatever you want to call it, Islam in practice hasn't historically been a benevolent force toward black people on a macro-level. I think that's twism's basic point.

A black individual choosing to be a Muslim or whatever other religion or lack thereof is a separate issue.

I don't think that's TWISM's basic point first of all. But your saying "it" again like it is a body, but it's more like an ideology.

Outside of the semantics, the argument your making doesn't make sense. You can't say Islam in practice has been X or Y when it's an ideology. If you want to say Muslims or Islamic nations that makes more sense but lets go to that point.

There has been an ugly relationship between some Sub-Saharan African regions and Arab-Muslim slave traders. I emphasis some because some other places had good relations with the Arab Muslims and it is a lot more complicated than the wholesale racial genocide that TWISM is implying. As a person from Somalia, who's ancestors never experienced any slavery from Arabs, that gives me some insight as to the relationships that occurred in the complex place that is Africa.

I'm not being an apologist for those people who enslaved Africans, they are horrible people and they could have been from any religious background, but unfortunately they are from mine, and I will condemn them as I do anybody who does anything I think is wrong, but that sporadic and in comparison sparse enslavement by some Arab groups to the greatest genocide and injustice in terms of scale and brutality the world has ever seen and hopefully ever will see, in the Trans-Atlantic slave trade.

List of Muslim empires and dynasties
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_empires_and_dynasties

its disgusting how black muslims try to spread lies

Before I address this please learn how to read. You think I would make a claim about Islam not being an actual institution without knowing that in the 1400 years since the 7th century, that some Muslims had empires and dynasties? You think that I would actually wholesale deny the idea of a Muslim ruler, and somehow I'm "lying" and by googling "Muslim Rulers" and posting a Wikipedia you're exposing my falsehoods?

This dude posted a video where @3:14 a Black African said that in the "Europe of the Enlightenment, slavery was seen as despicable" Really? That's whats hot int he streets? Outright lies? That's what you're posting?

Does anyone take TWISM seriously?

 

[theworldismine13]

This is why I said theres no comparison. Now everybody took what I said and spun it to make it seem like it wasn't bad. I took the L for not taking my own advice. The slavery in Africa cannot be compared to trans atlantic. The way people here in America live to the brothers and sisters in Africa will show all that needs to be said.

and again i wasnt talking about slavery in africa, i was talking about the arab slave trade which involved taking african out of africa or within arab held territory

and that slave trade can be compared to the transatlantic slave trade

and the big picture as far as the slave trade within africa, is that that trade is what led to the arab slave trade and the european slave trade, so even downplaying the slave trade amongst africans i find to be a problem

the slave trade within africa is the reason why there wasnt even any point in going back to africa for africans that had been transported away

 

[theworldismine13]

Before I address this please learn how to read. You think I would make a claim about Islam not being an actual institution without knowing that in the 1400 years since the 7th century, that some Muslims had empires and dynasties? You think that I would actually wholesale deny the idea of a Muslim ruler, and somehow I'm "lying" and by googling "Muslim Rulers" and posting a Wikipedia you're exposing my falsehoods?

i think you engaged in some corny semantics about institution so im just heading to the bottom line,

aside from your semantics, islam is an imperialistic religion, that is the purpose of that link

feel free to explain that away with semantics

This dude posted a video where @3:14 a Black African said that in the "Europe of the Enlightenment, slavery was seen as despicable" Really? That's whats hot int he streets? Outright lies? That's what you're posting?

i dont see how that is a lie, the enlightenment period is what led to the movement to abolish slavery

and are you saying that the video itself is a lie? and the guy was a black muslim for the record

 

[Broke Wave]

i think you engaged in some corny semantics about institution so im just heading to the bottom line, aside from your semantics, islam is an imperialistic religion

feel free to explain that away with semantics



i dont see how that is a lie, the enlightenment period is what led to the movement to abolish slavery

and are you saying that the video itself is a lie? and the guy was a black muslim for the record

That's not the statement he made, he said it was seen as despicable in EUROPE... a big fukking place... which is obviously not true. The enlightenment was the 17th and 18th centuries... the height of the slave trade?

It's funny how you call the facts "corny semantics". You are usually empty when it facts so it's not a big deal that you're not interested in a factual discussion. The context of the phrase is wholly important to the discussion we (Me and VVD, adults) we're having.

Rofl @ this dude telling me that guy is a black Muslim, as if that will add validity to what he said. You're apparently a black guy, and nothing you say is valid, I bet your cac friends beg you to say your arm-chair right-wing bullshyt in front of each other to dikk ride each other.

Let me guess you don't have any white friends.

Don't quote me anymore

 

[theworldismine13]

That's not the statement he made, he said it was seen as despicable in EUROPE... a big fukking place... which is obviously not true. The enlightenment was the 17th and 18th centuries... the height of the slave trade?

It's funny how you call the facts "corny semantics". You are usually empty when it facts so it's not a big deal that you're not interested in a factual discussion. The context of the phrase is wholly important to the discussion we (Me and VVD, adults) we're having.

Rofl @ this dude telling me that guy is a black Muslim, as if that will add validity to what he said. You're apparently a black guy, and nothing you say is valid, I bet your cac friends beg you to say your arm-chair right-wing bullshyt in front of each other to dikk ride each other.

Let me guess you don't have any white friends.

Don't quote me anymore

he wasnt saying that europeans were not slave trading

Abolitionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Abolitionism was a movement to end slavery, whether formal or informal. In Western Europe and the Americas, abolitionism was a historical movement to end the African slave trade and set slaves free. The Spanish government enacted the first European law abolishing colonial slavery in 1542, although this law was not widely enforced. Later, in the 17th century, English Quakers and evangelical religious groups condemned slavery (by then applied mostly to Africans) as un-Christian; in the 18th century, abolition was part of the message of the First Great Awakening in the Thirteen Colonies; and in the same period, rationalist thinkers of the Enlightenment criticized it for violating the rights of man.

and some members of the movement spoke out against slavery, that is what he was referring to

so its not semantics, its a historical fact that the abolition movement in europe started with the enlightenment movement and dude was juxtaposing that with the lack of muslim scholars who opposed slavery

i was just saying he is a muslim for the record, but his academic background, national origin and his blackness are his main credentials imo