Draymond Green vs The World...Day 2: Klay Thompson

[e001]

Kyrie is a team player. Just because he's dominant in isolation doesn't mean it's a detriment to everyone around him.

Efficient 1on1 scoring is very important in this league. Always has been, always will be especially come playoff time. We just saw Irving run a ISO clinic resulting in a title.

The difference between coming off a screen and 1on1 is that the former is easier to deny. There's very little anyone can really do 1on1 vs Irving. His ball skill is too ridiculous, uses his body to create separation as well as any guard in this league and his jump shot is flexible. Klay saw this first hand in G5 (and without Draymond to back him, was powerless). Plus he can receive a screen himself with the ball in his hands for a good look, something Klay doesn't have in his game.

Klay is a good not elite defender, only posts up mismatches with the same move with varying degrees of success, Bradley/Carroll/Ariza aren't as good offensively as Klay.

So is an elite two way guard. Points are points, it doesn't matter how you score them. If you can defend multiple positions, prevent the opposition from scoring and still put up the same amount of points on better efficiency offensively and defensively then there's no arguments to be made.

It's easy to deny ISO plays, you just double team, no one does that on Kyrie because of Lebron, that's why they are a lottery team without him. Kyrie is not a great passer so he wouldn't do half as much without Lebron, we have already seen this movie before.

It's not because Monta Ellis can give you more points out of 1 on 1's than Klay that he's better.

 

[Broke Wave]

I voted Draymond but I meant Klay

 

[Consumed]

So is an elite two way guard. Points are points, it doesn't matter how you score them. If you can defend multiple positions, prevent the opposition from scoring and still put up the same amount of points on better efficiency offensively and defensively then there's no arguments to be made.

It's easy to deny ISO plays, you just double team, no one does that on Kyrie because of Lebron, that's why they are a lottery team without him. Kyrie is not a great passer so he wouldn't do half as much without Lebron, we have already seen this movie before.

It's not because Monta Ellis is a better iso player than Klay that he's better.

It does matter how you score. You don't ignore context, look at a stat sheet and come to a conclusion. Degree of difficulty and greater ability matters.

Klay can guard multiple positions but he's not elite at guarding any of them nor does he have the impact of a disruptive defender - like the guy this thread is about, Draymond Green. Why do you think Klay is better than him btw?


If you double Kyrie he's smart enough to pass the ball and not get stuck in tunnel vision. This idea that he's a selfish chucker ball hog is wrong. the movie you saw was when Kyrie was 21 years old on a terrible roster. He has more support now and has matured as a player.

 

[SchoolboyC]

Klay can be a number 1 on a shytty team like the Nets, not saying they would make any noise in the playoffs or even make it but definitely a better record than Draymond on the Nets.

Just like Kyrie debate, Draymond has the privilege of playing with 3 top notch players where all he has to do is play defense and hustle, he doesn't bare the load on offense. Draymond can't take over the game offensively and create shots for himself and drop 30 on any given night. He would be lost and possibly exposed if he was on the Nets, he might be a 14pts, 8 rebounds, 6 assists guy.

Put Klay on the Nets and they easily win about 30 games. He can score with the best of them and is a pretty good defender. With no burden of sharing the ball with Curry or KD, he can easily be a 30pt guy every night and will always be a threat to go off for 40 on any given night.

I know we're gonna keep this kind of discussion going for days now, so I might as well copy and paste the same argument against Draymond. He is not a top 20 player, he might be in the 25-30 zone.

So Klay is so good that if you put him on the Nets they win at least 17 more games than what they're on the pace to do?

 

[knickscrusaderm]

The Warriors lose to OKC last playoffs if not for super nova Klay .

I cant even remember if Draymond played in that series .

 

[qnsfinest]

So Klay is so good that if you put him on the Nets they win at least 17 more games than what they're on the pace to do?

Let's see, they currently sit at 9 wins, they'll probably end the season with 12-15? Or that might be to generous. But if Klay was on that team, I truly feel like they could win up to 30 games so that would be a 15 win jump, with Draymond they probably win no more than 20 which would be a 5 game jump.

 

[Broke Wave]

I'd rather have Dray over Blake though

Situations included, I'd have Dray over a few great players. If we didn't just get Ibaka, I woulda had Draymond over Demar DeRozan

There's a laundry list of better offensive players than I'd rather have Draymond than.

 

[e001]

It does matter how you score. You don't ignore context, look at a stat sheet and come to a conclusion. Degree of difficulty and greater ability matters.

Klay can guard multiple positions but he's not elite at guarding any of them nor does he have the impact of a disruptive defender - like the guy this thread is about, Draymond Green. Why do you think Klay is better than him btw?


If you double Kyrie he's smart enough to pass the ball and not get stuck in tunnel vision. This idea that he's a selfish chucker ball hog is wrong. the movie you saw was when Kyrie was 21 years old on a terrible roster. He has more support now and has matured as a player.

Most of Klay's shots are considered contested to any other player, he just has a quick release, in theory they should be the hardest shots to make, specially in the range he shoots them.

I wouldn't say better, I'd say he's more useful in general, Draymond is that useful to the Warriors because no other player can shoot like Steph so he's better playing off-ball. Draymond's defense is elite and even if Klay's defense is not on the same tier as Draymond's, he's a great and versatile defender as well, he can shoot better than 95% of the players in the league and can score from anywhere on the floor in multiple ways. It's nothing like comparing Draymond to Kyrie who gets hidden on defense despite his ability to score which is overrated mostly because he's flashy. The way people talk about Kyrie I always have to double check to see if he's not averaging 35 on 50/40/90, funny how he ain't even on the top 10 ppg and Lebron gotta play 40 minutes a game but somehow he's a top 10 player to a lot of lists on the coli when pretty much all he does is scoring, at least that's the argument being used. I'm failling to understand what context I am missing , how is he unstoppable if he ain't even that efficient?. Something's gotta give breh. If he was a better distributor he wouldn't have to get punked in the paint every time just to get 2 points.
Back to Draymond, he can pass the ball and could probably average around 17/8 on a bigger role as far as shooting but he wouldn't change that much the dynamic or the offensive efficiency of other teams other than the Warriors, because you don't have, in any other team, 2 and now 3 elite shooters who can comfortably play without the ball and still impact the game enough. In what other team guards get double teamed as much as the Warriors' on the pick&roll?

 

[SchoolboyC]

Let's see, they currently sit at 9 wins, they'll probably end the season with 12-15? Or that might be to generous. But if Klay was on that team, I truly feel like they could win up to 30 games so that would be a 15 win jump, with Draymond they probably win no more than 20 which would be a 5 game jump.

You got more faith than me in a team starting Isaiah Whitehead & Spencer Dinwiddie at PG

 

[SCORCH]

These threads are fake news.

 

[Consumed]

Most of Klay's shots are considered contested to any other player, he just has a quick release, in theory they should be the hardest shots to make, specially in the range he shoots them.

I wouldn't say better, I'd say he's more useful in general, Draymond is that useful to the Warriors because no other player can shoot like Steph so he's better playing off-ball. Draymond's defense is elite and even if Klay's defense is not on the same tier as Draymond's, he's a great and versatile defender as well, he can shoot better than 95% of the players in the league and can score from anywhere on the floor in multiple ways. It's nothing like comparing Draymond to Kyrie who gets hidden on defense despite his ability to score which is overrated mostly because he's flashy. The way people talk about Kyrie I always have to double check to see if he's not averaging 35 on 50/40/90, funny how he ain't even on the top 10 ppg and Lebron gotta play 40 minutes a game but somehow he's a top 10 player to a lot of lists on the coli when pretty much all he does is scoring, at least that's the argument being used. I'm failling to understand what context I am missing , how is he unstoppable if he ain't even that efficient?. Something's gotta give breh. If he was a better distributor he wouldn't have to get punked in the paint every time just to get 2 points.
Back to Draymond, he can pass the ball and could probably average around 17/8 on a bigger role as far as shooting but he wouldn't change that much the dynamic or the offensive efficiency of other teams other than the Warriors, because you don't have, in any other team, 2 and now 3 elite shooters who can comfortably play without the ball and still impact the game enough. In what other team guards get double teamed as much as the Warriors' on the pick&roll?

Don't consider Kyrie or Klay top ten players

No player gets more open looks than Klay Thompson. That should matter you you. I understand how hard he works to get himself in position to take those shots, but he can't handle the burden of creating for an offense as well as Irving. You said LeBron would trade Kyrie for Thompson in a heart beat, thats insane

I don't know where you're getting Kyrie isn't "that efficient", he ranks in the 90percetile in isolation points per possession and 80percentile in P&R scoring on high volume. Klay being a better spot up and off screen scorer doesn't trump an ability to score in a variety of ways from all areas of the court. What are those multiple ways on every area of the floor Klay Thompson can score? I'm not seeing that. He's a brilliant off ball scorer but his on ball game is limited to pull ups and the occasional blow by if a defender closes out too hard.

Again he's not a good enough defender to bridge the gap and isn't good enough to anchor a defense. How did his defense look in game 5 with Green out. He is very reliant on the people around him to be effective as are most wing defenders. Doesn't mean he doesn't carry substantial defensive value, it's just not enough to eclipse Irvings advantage as a scorer.

Not sure what you mean by Kyrie getting punked in the paint or whatever, and since your OP claimed Klay was a top ten player were never going to agree on anything Id guess

Draymond would be an offensive plus and carry DPOY level defensive impact on every team in this league. His value isn't just tethered to the Warriors - put him on the Lakers and 76ers, you'd see substantial improvement with those teams. There's this misnomer that he'd be forced into a #1 option role but no team is in position to ask him to be that.

The notion that Draymond is what he is because of the shooters around him should've died after Curry got hurt (or in the Finals where Kerr had him lead bench units with great success). Joakim Noah didn't need shooters who got trapped 30 feet from the rim to break all sorts of big man passing records, why would Green? All a talented passing big needs is responsibility and good decision making, he's got that + is has good handles for his position. He helps his guards by setting great screens and can stretch the floor. That's all he needs to help any offense in this league, and defensively there is no one more versatile.

 

[Rigby.]

these threads dont really make sense lol

anyway Klay

 

[G.O.A.T Squad Spokesman]

These threads are fake news.

It's dry out there. If it ain't about the Warriors it's not moving no units. We get the computers putin.

 

[KOBE]

YOUR THREADS NEVER HAD A CONCLUSION...

BY THE TIME THIS SERIES IS OVER
THE COLI WILL HAVE AN OFFICIAL NUMBER RANKING FOR GREEN.

NO MORE TALKING OUT THE ASS.



​

Coli's opinions have never been nor ever will be facts.


Maybe you should make a poll asking if Durant is a bytch or not for leaving instead of bushing all threads that are about bashing Durant so we can have a coli fact about that.

 

[e001]

Don't consider Kyrie or Klay top ten players

No player gets more open looks than Klay Thompson. That should matter you you. I understand how hard he works to get himself in position to take those shots, but he can't handle the burden of creating for an offense as well as Irving. You said LeBron would trade Kyrie for Thompson in a heart beat, thats insane

I don't know where you're getting Kyrie isn't "that efficient", he ranks in the 90percetile in isolation points per possession and 80percentile in P&R scoring on high volume. Klay being a better spot up and off screen scorer doesn't trump an ability to score in a variety of ways from all areas of the court. What are those multiple ways on every area of the floor Klay Thompson can score? I'm not seeing that. He's a brilliant off ball scorer but his on ball game is limited to pull ups and the occasional blow by if a defender closes out too hard.

Again he's not a good enough defender to bridge the gap and isn't good enough to anchor a defense. How did his defense look in game 5 with Green out. He is very reliant on the people around him to be effective as are most wing defenders. Doesn't mean he doesn't carry substantial defensive value, it's just not enough to eclipse Irvings advantage as a scorer.

Not sure what you mean by Kyrie getting punked in the paint or whatever, and since your OP claimed Klay was a top ten player were never going to agree on anything Id guess

Draymond would be an offensive plus and carry DPOY level defensive impact on every team in this league. His value isn't just tethered to the Warriors - put him on the Lakers and 76ers, you'd see substantial improvement with those teams. There's this misnomer that he'd be forced into a #1 option role but no team is in position to ask him to be that.

The notion that Draymond is what he is because of the shooters around him should've died after Curry got hurt (or in the Finals where Kerr had him lead bench units with great success). Joakim Noah didn't need shooters who got trapped 30 feet from the rim to break all sorts of big man passing records, why would Green? All a talented passing big needs is responsibility and good decision making, he's got that + is has good handles for his position. He helps his guards by setting great screens and can stretch the floor. That's all he needs to help any offense in this league, and defensively there is no one more versatile.

I don't understand where are you trying to go. All of your arguments for Kyrie would be relevant to a pick up game, not to the NBA. Kyrie is a liability defensively and his offensive ability doesn't make up for his abysmal defense to put him ahead of Klay Thompson who can score just as much on a better efficiency regardless of how he does it, I won't argue about this anymore. You are trying to tell me Kyrie is better simply because he make tougher shots in 1 vs 1 situations and that's nonsense. You are also trying to make me believe Kyrie is in another stratosphere compared to Klay in terms of scoring when the numbers itself don't back it up . He makes open shots, so does Kyrie.

He's not the most efficient despite being overrated as an unstoppable scorer who can style on everybody and score whenever he feels like it and no one can guard him, that's it. I don't care about iso%, pnr%, it's all scoring at the end of the day, shyt doesn't matter, Kareem was not nearly as versatile as Hakeem but he got buckets anyway.

Getting punked in the sense that every time he attempts a layup he gets beat the fukk up and still is able to make it so he ends up getting style points because it looks cool.

You are underrating Klay's defense and it isn't even funny anymore. I don't even know how to start explaining so I'll just let the evidences do the talking.

Spoiler

You put Klay on the Lakers and the Sixers and they would be better than with Draymond, that's my only point, you are making it seems like I said Draymond is bad or something . It's just a opinion, there are no facts to debate this so just let it go, you can't prove your point either.